Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

.15 or .21 speed/sport engine

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Old 02-01-2006, 04:06 PM
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Default .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

Could you guys give me advice about good engines?
Here in Portugal I can find mvvs. Are they good?
For the money you pay for them I think they are really good (2.5 GFS/R-ABC@63€, 3.5 GFS/R-ABC-RC@67€)
Are there better?
I'm thinking about building a speed plane, like those that der_steuermann has shown in 200MPH thread but put in it a "sport" engine with rear exaust...

I've also seen the novarossi RS12F... 1.35hp@40000rpm, Practical Range 6.000÷ 46.800 rpm[X(]

but where to buy this thing? and how many €€?
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:30 AM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

I recommend magnum engines from weston uk, you can order them from the website, shipping wont be too much to europe. http://www.westonuk.co.uk/magnummot.html. They are the recommended engine for the acclaimed Weston UK Magnum R. DEAD QUICK!!
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Old 02-02-2006, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

I have a store near me that has "everything" that westonUK has with good prices. Last week I´ve bought a magnum .15 for a guy from my airfield. I haven´t seen it working untill now... maybe this weekend
Problem is that those engines have side exaust and I want rear exaust... also, I think magnum engines don´t have the power that mvvs have (or am I wrong?)
Magnum advantage is their price... .15 - 48€ and .21 - 54€....
Also I don´t know what would be better... lots of rpm with a .15 and less power or little more power a less rpm with a .21...?
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

ORIGINAL: Ispitfire
I recommend magnum engines from weston uk, you can order them from the website, shipping wont be too much to europe. http://www.westonuk.co.uk/magnummot.html. They are the recommended engine for the acclaimed Weston UK Magnum R. DEAD QUICK!!
No they're not. Weston UK carries Magnum sport engines, sure. But their high performance engine line is the West Eurotech series, and the West .50V1 is the specific engine for the Magnum R. The West Eurotech engines are made by Webra to Weston's specs.

The smallest West engine they have is the Combat .25 , last I checked. I haven't seen a picture, so I do not know if it is rear or side exhaust. But I suspect side exhaust, as the .36 and .50 are.

In the Magnum engine line (which is the engine manufacturer's name, it does not refer to the Magnum or Magnum R aircraft from Weston UK) there are .15, .21, and .25 side exhaust, muffled sport engines. These are not "high performance" engines, though they offer good performance compared to their respective counterparts from OS, TT and the like etc.

The Novarossi rear exhaust piped engine is a whole different animal, and looks much better suited to a speed plane. The smaller MVVS likely so too, but I don't own either one so can't comment from first-hand knowledge.

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Old 02-02-2006, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

The little MVVS's are good value... but they're not "racing" engines. Sure, they like to rev, like most small engines, but not like a true speed engine. They need modifications for some real performance.

The little Nova Rossi's are basically car engines with some modifications to make them suited to turn a prop. So they sure like rpm. The problem here is finding a prop. You will most likely have to start making them yourself...
Oh, and they are worth about their weigh in gold VERY expensive. They have .21's that cost about 500 euro's...
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Old 02-02-2006, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

ORIGINAL: _King_Pin_

Could you guys give me advice about good engines?
Here in Portugal I can find mvvs. Are they good?
For the money you pay for them I think they are really good (2.5 GFS/R-ABC@63€, 3.5 GFS/R-ABC-RC@67€)
Are there better?
I'm thinking about building a speed plane, like those that der_steuermann has shown in 200MPH thread but put in it a "sport" engine with rear exaust...

I've also seen the novarossi RS12F... 1.35hp@40000rpm, Practical Range 6.000÷ 46.800 rpm[X(]

but where to buy this thing? and how many €€?
my favourite hobby shop has these..I was thinking of using the same engine in a project

http://www.ozshops.com/cgi-bin/RT_Re...lication=radio
go to airplane section, look under 2 stroke engines, navo rossi are on page 2, near the bottom is this engine
the engine is listed at $244.45 AUD


cheers
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:35 AM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

hmm... then the best option is the mvvs? Is there any other options with rear exaust?
I'm not going to any speed event! I just wan´t to pick a good engine not too expensive, take from it the best speed I can and then play with it for fun

PS: It would be funny looking at a prop turnning at 40K with a novarossi engine.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:10 AM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

Hi gals

to make this converted car Nova .12 run 30 to 33000 rpm maximum you need a non-muffled pipe, a prop like 4.5*4.5" or 4*5 or 4*6 and a venturi speed carb with 5.5 mm bore. No more rpm gain here. Don't believe those "fantastic" rpm numbers of some engine manufacturers.

Guess why the F3D engine manufacturers don't make HP etc claims?

The above listed prop sizes demand a very small fuselage. So a nice speed project for a light .12 or .15 engine would be an "old" F5D pylon airframe such like the Tokoloschi. You just need to implant the .12 or .15 FIRE glow engine into that cute fuselage and make a glass fibre cowl for the engine + pipe.

For some folks a big problem is the small silhouette of those older F5D airframes at high speed. No good for a speed beginner. Anyway, speeds of 160 to 170 mph out of a dive are possible here - with only about 1.5 HP!

You can sometimes find such former F5D airframes at certain auction sites, but if you want quality (strength), I'd buy from an active F5D pilot who wants to get rid of his old planes.

You can't find a lower drag airframe than one of the F5D electro pylon aiframes ("old" = old regulation, todays F5D speeders are much larger)

http://www.akamodell.vo.tum.de/projekte/pylon/am4.htm


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Old 02-03-2006, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

My problem is to find anything like that here in Portugal. Peolple here just be happy with an extra300 flying around
Only races here are Q500 (trainer's with .40 engines with max 17000rpm with 9/6prop for begginer class, and the national class have some limitations comparing with FAI regulations...), peolple in my airfield almost talk about me like "here it comes the young boy that started flying in August, broken his trainer cause of fluttering, and is now screaming that thing he built over the runway"
-finding here any electric F5D plane is almost impossible...
-I really like that idea about the F5D plane, but I'll need to find where to buy that in europe and also find some €€ to buy it... (wish I win the euro millions this week!)

well... for now... I´ll just start building my first own design plane with the webra .36 that I expect will arrive this month... lets see if it flies and if it is faster then what I have
I'm tired from flying my actual plane

Next I´ll start build/buy things for this we are talking about
For some folks a big problem is the small silhouette of those older F5D airframes at high speed. No good for a speed beginner
That will be a problem for me... I´m a speed begginer!

der_steuermann have you other options about good engines?
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Old 02-03-2006, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

ORIGINAL: _King_Pin_

Next I´ll start build/buy things for this we are talking about
For some folks a big problem is the small silhouette of those older F5D airframes at high speed. No good for a speed beginner
That will be a problem for me... I´m a speed begginer!

der_steuermann have you other options about good engines?
So, as a beginner a F5D plane would be the wrong choice - these are suited for the experienced pilots.

I think you have to define your target more precisely:

What is your maximum speed so far?

What is your next speed target?

Have you done glass fibre constructions before (making engine/pipe cowl for example)? Or do you have a buddy who has these working abilities?

What is your budget?

Then we'll be able to find a good speed combo for you.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:11 AM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

yah.. probably i´m runnig too fast...[]
150€ for engine but i prefer less than 100€ like those mvvs
don´t know what speed I have achieved untill now My plane has a 9/7APC prop with a TT .46 @ ~16000rpm. Not really fast.
I was thinking in having a good speed plane but put a sport engine, start with small pich props and with time putting it running faster.
Fiberglass, i don´t have any experience, but have a buddy that his job is working all day with fiberglass, molds, etc.

The plane I´m going to build in few days has these characteristics:
80cm span
40cm root chord
18cm tip chord
It's wing looks like an F117 wing
airfoil is an MH22
fuse 80cm long
motor webra .36
normal landing gear
V tail

Do you think this is going to be too difficult to fly?
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

I see just a few problems with your design if you are wanting a truly fast plane.
1) The plane in your drawings has a very short tail moment. You need a longer moment for high speed stability.
2) Very think fuselage relative to the rest of the plane. Thin it down a bit, and think about where you are going to route your exaust. A good FIRE engine will make your speed plane that much cooler.
3) You have drawn your airplane with very harsh angles. If you were going to try to fly around the local radar on a stealth mission I would say you have the right idea, but for speed, you're gonna want smooth lines that don't creat a lot of drag. Take a good look at the plane in the top of this thread. Not many hard lines on it.
Looks like a fun project, let us know how it goes.
-Steve
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:21 PM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

ORIGINAL: Lomcevak Duck

...Looks like a fun project, let us know how it goes.
-Steve
Yes indeed a fun project looking cool, but alas nothing for speed. This is basically a modified delta layout, very unsuited for speed - as well as all swept back designs (induced drag...).

Look here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3829933/tm.htm


I would say that your plane, having a wing span of approx. 100 cm and powered by a piped Webra .36 and a 8*7 prop, would achieve a speed of max 110 mph. More prop pitch is not possible here due to the design.

Anyway, have fun!




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Old 02-03-2006, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

yes I know it will have some problems with induced drag. I´ve read that thread
I haven´t designed it for pure speed. I´ve designed it just because I liked it! I think it will be faster than my actual plane.
110MPH I think won´t be bad for me.
Next week I´m going to make the definitive plans... But the major changes to be done to give him speed would chaange dramatically his appearance (Wing design, thinner fuse...)
Don´t know what to do[] keep this design, or make a better (faster) one?
having a wing span of approx. 100 cm
It has 80cm span... is it too short?
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: .15 or .21 speed/sport engine

I´ve been making some calculations... I think that probably my actual plane has a top speed 80MPH less... so this will be faster.
If I change it´s design for better speed it wouldn´t be the fun project you said it is
next week I'll try to reduce root chord, put wing span 100cm+/- and make a thinner body Lets see if it continues to look funny
In the end of next week I´ll start building it.
a pic of my actual plane
[link=http://server1.pictiger.com/img/16147/o-meu-abi%E3o/][/link]
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