Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

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Old 03-20-2006, 08:30 PM
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setxws6
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Default Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

I am thinking, instead of getting a magnum, I'm thinking of upgrading my Sportsman Aviation F-20 up with a hotter motor. I'm considering a Jett .46 or .50 but I noticed that they advertise the about the same peak rpm as a Thunder Tiger .46..... around 16,000-17,000 rpm.
So why is this a performance engine if the rpm peaks around the same as a TT? What am I missing?
What would be the best speed upgrade for the plane?
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:44 PM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Jett really means it, Thunder Tiger doesn't, at least with a normal prop. The Jetts are precision made with very tight tolerances and porting to match their tuned mufflers. Thunder Tigers, like OS, Magnum, GMS, all the others, are production line engines made by regular workers for regular guys to fly. It's like a NASCAR Monte Carlo vs. the one you could buy. Not even in your wildest dreams are they in the same ball park. I don't own a Jett, but I have seen a couple in my club and they are awesome engines.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:54 PM
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setxws6
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Ah, so engine manufactures overrate the performance of their engines. Humm, didn't know that.

So do you guys think that a Jett would be the right choice to up the speed of my F-20, or are there any other choices?
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Your kidding right? If you want to do it right , throw a .90 on it like I am. This is a 60-90 size plane. You are not going to bring out the best in this plane with anything less.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:13 PM
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setxws6
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

A .90 on a 40 size prop jet! Hope you have stick on weights ready to apply on the tail end!
What prop are you going to use?
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:20 PM
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Cyclic Hardover
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

I had in my head the Phoenix F-20 Besides, I thought all you Texans liked em bigger!
I have the Jett 50 and 90. You get what you pay for. Darn nice engines and customer service is good also. Ive been up since 3am, what can I say.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:34 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

The TT .46 is nowhere near the power of "Urban Legend", although they
run good. If you want all out power, think towards the Jett, not the TT.

FBD.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:40 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

setxws6,

Speed & dollars are all proportional!! If you buy a meduim range engine, then you will have reasonable speed. If you shell out the money, then you will gert something to blow your socks off !!

Part of the money you pay for a Jett is the aftersales service that is available to you in a posting or a phone call. I have TT's aswell, but if I had a problem with it , how do I talk to the guy that designed it. With my Jett I can get an answer in the same day, all the way across the world from where I am. Where the TT is starting to get a breathless, is where the Jett is really starting to perform.

From what I have read about the West, is if you spend some time setting up the pipe then it will pull really well. I cant see a manufacturer selling a matched pair without it being a well sorted package. When I eventually get a Magnum R then that is the way I am going to go.

Tony.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:41 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Urban Legend? Okay....?

So which would be better, the Jett .46 or .50? Do they have the same foot print as a TT .46?
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:20 AM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

I don't know about better but i would get the .50 if you can? Throw a 9/7 apc on it and watch it go.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:39 AM
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MJD
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Marketing, marketing... sigh. Peak rpm is a meaningless figure if it does not indicate what load is attached to the engine! By "peak rpm" they are either indicating that the motor will generate peak horsepower at that rpm or that that's as fast as you should dare let it turn.

But how much horsepwoer is each generating at that rpm - that's the question. You have to know what is attached to the engine at a specific rpm for the figure to have any value. A flywheel? An 8-6? Or a 10-6, which the Jetts will actually turn at 17k or more due to the fact that they generate gobs of horsepower.

With the Jetts, as any Jett owner will tell you, you get what you pay for, and maybe more. They're terrific engines, and worth the money if you can justify plunking down the cash for one.

MJD



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Old 03-21-2006, 09:41 AM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger


ORIGINAL: setxws6

Urban Legend? Okay....?

So which would be better, the Jett .46 or .50? Do they have the same foot print as a TT .46?
The 50 is good for about 500 rpm more then the 46. I have owned both. The foot print is the same as a TT 46 unless you get the FIRE Jett that has a different bolt pattern. The Sport Jett will give you 2000+ rpm over a TT.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:54 AM
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bob27s
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Setxws6,

If I recall correctly, you are already flying this combination in your F-20, but as a review and reference for others.....

The budget alternative: the Thunder Tiger .46 engine with a Jett-Stream muffler installed is a good powerplant. Use a 9x7 or 9x8 on the SA F-20 application and you will get performance that will impress you - performs a bit short of the SJ-46, and it is a good combination to consider. In this case, yes, you will see the TT46 turn up 16,000-17,000 rpm. With this engine combination I recommend to prop it for peak ground rpm of around 16,000, and launch about 400-500 down from that. Unloads up into the mid 16K range in the air.

As for the Jett Engines.... thanks for the support in those posts above.... [&:]

Any of the Jett "40" size engines will make you smile The SJ-46, SJ-50 or a SJ-60LX are ideal choices for the Sportsman F-20.

The performance goes up about 500 rpm per engine size. And you get a proportional increase in smile size. [8D]

If I were to suggest an engine here, I would suggest the SJ-50. Just a good running engine with a ton of power, reliable, easy to operate, outstanding throttle response.

As noted, the numbers published on the Jett website are the actual performance rpm with a specific prop. The engines are pre-run before they are shipped to ensure they hit Jett's minimum performance standards. After proper break-in and a bit of flight time, most engines will exceed these performance figures.

In the case of the engines listed above, the baseline prop is an APC 10x6 and 15% fuel is used.

For the SA F-20 you are inquiring about, a 10x6 is a good prop to start with. Eventually an 9x7, 9x8 or 9x9 would be suitable as well.

The Jett engines have the same mounting pattern and installation footprint as the OS46/TT46/Mag46 et al

I hope this is helpful.
Bob
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:17 AM
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daven
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

I'm still amazed that people have no problem plunking down 200+ dollars for a 4 stroke, but balk at the thought of paying a similar price for a high performance 2 stroke. My Jett .50 is one of my favorite engines (after I put a remote needle on it), and my Jett .90 runs very well also on my Hangar 9 Corsair.

Great engines.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:31 AM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger


ORIGINAL: daven

I'm still amazed that people have no problem plunking down 200+ dollars for a 4 stroke, but balk at the thought of paying a similar price for a high performance 2 stroke. My Jett .50 is one of my favorite engines (after I put a remote needle on it), and my Jett .90 runs very well also on my Hangar 9 Corsair.

Great engines.
Intersting point Dave, and well noted.

As some of you have seen me post before on here, Ive seen folks take an OS 46 FX, and add $150 worth of tuned pipe, new bearings, new chrome liner --- just doesnt seem to add up performance wise or money wise, unless the "tinker" factor has its own value for you.

(and that "Tinker" factor is important - not to be discouraged - can be a fun part of the hobby for those that are so inclined - lord knows I worked an engine or two in my time)
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:05 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

ORIGINAL: MJD
With the Jetts, as any Jett owner will tell you, you get what you pay for, and maybe more. They're terrific engines, and worth the money if you can justify plunking down the cash for one.
MJD
That comment above doesn't quite read the way I intended. By "justify", I mean from the standpoint of your personal budget restrictions, not with regards to value. They're worth every penny, and you don't have to screw around with them to try to get the performance you are looking for. Just run 'em right and go fly. And the comment about expensive 4-strokes is highly relevant! MJD

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Old 03-21-2006, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Where is the Moderator here???

Ed S
____________________________
....right here Hoss. [8D]

FBD.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:32 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

ORIGINAL: daven

I'm still amazed that people have no problem plunking down 200+ dollars for a 4 stroke, but balk at the thought of paying a similar price for a high performance 2 stroke.

Great engines.
That is so true.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Jett .60LX new item on the market case size same as the .50 it will fit and it will go!
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Hay Guy:

Listen to these fokes, best advise you will get in your life. I have the Sports Jett 35, 50 and 91. Love each one of them. All in race plane environments, never let me down. Sports Jett is not intended to be a all out race engine. If you want a real screamer, go for the Jett racing engines, they equal or exceed the Nelsons, period. Just my old experienced view for what its worht.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

I only own one Jett (so far [sm=wink.gif]), a SJ50 with the black SS muffler. Amazing engine. Easy to break in, easy to needle, idles great and runs like stink. I also own a TT46 Pro. Not a bad engine at all, but there just isn't any comparison. The TT with an 8.75x8W APC pylon prop will turn around 16,500, maybe 17, 000 on a good day. The Jett turned over 19,000 with that prop and it isn't fully broken in by any means. The Jett transitions noticably better as well.

As for support, Bob's presence here at RCU is well known and much appreciated. You usually have answers within a few hours of posting. If you need to know NOW, give Jett Engineering a call. Odds are that the man who answers the phone will be Dub himself. Great guy to deal with. That kind of support is hard to find anywhere else.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:49 AM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

I have the Jett90, TT pro 46, OS46, ST 51, and Magnum XLS52 so think I can put in my 2 cents on this topic. If I pay 150 bucks for the SA F20 I really don't want to spend a bunch of money for Jett50. I've put the Jettstream muffler on the TT46 and OS46 on my Cermark F20 and that plane can haul ass. There's no need to spend a bunch more for Jett50 for that plane to go just a little faster. This poor guy only needs to invest 50 bucks in a Jettstream muffler and he's done. I may also add a couple of air whistles from i4c to put a smile on his face in regards to sound effect of that combo of jettstream and air whistles. I've done it.
Now, if one will spend 360 bucks on the Cermark F16 w/ retracts like I did, then buying a Jett90 to put on it will make more sense. There are less hot engine choices for 90 size planes, short of fancy pipe set up that makes the plane ugly.
Bottom line: put Jett on airframe that deserves it, not on a little inexpensive sport plane. Just my 2 cents...
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger


ORIGINAL: kmtranmd

If I pay 150 bucks for the SA F20 I really don't want to spend a bunch of money for Jett50. I've put the Jettstream muffler on the TT46 and OS46 on my Cermark F20 and that plane can haul ass. There's no need to spend a bunch more for Jett50 for that plane to go just a little faster. This poor guy only needs to invest 50 bucks in a Jettstream muffler and he's done. .....

Bottom line: put Jett on airframe that deserves it, not on a little inexpensive sport plane. Just my 2 cents...
Yep, point well taken. Especially without retracts in the SA F-20, it will gain some performance with the engine upgrade, but its not going to gain a great deal of speed.

However, the original poster here already has the F-20 flying with a TT/jett-stream setup (posts and picts back in 0ct/Nov if I recall) ..... sounded like he was looking for a bit more.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

Man you guys are not fun![:'(] You needed to tell me "yea it'll haul ass even faster" Now I'm having doubts about it all. Oh well. The TT with the Jett pipe is a great combonation and the plane goes quick, I'd say around 110-120mph max with no wind or down wind.

It's kinda like having a muscle or sports car with a lot of hp, eventually you get use to it and want more. Then after adding more, you get used to that and still want more. It'll never end![>:]

As far as the price of engine vs the price of plane...I would have to disagree on that. Look at how cheep most Q-500 style planes are, but that's right up JETT eng. alley of who they build engines for. When it comes to performance in anything, car, motorcycle, RC planes, etc......more HP/RPM cost money. I know that from adding tons of hp to my Trans Am.
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Jett vs. Thunder Tiger

hello,

go with the jett. ya get what ya pay for here. I have owned a .90 and it screams like crazy. these things come alive ! they really are works of art. not for your average modeler or sunday flyer. a true revvers choice. my second choice and less expensive is the rossi. i have 2 .45's and one older .40 and all scream like hell.


Join the club !


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