Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Little Toni

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Old 05-08-2006, 08:27 PM
  #1  
ally2mail
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Default Little Toni

I recently bought a Little Toni that had already been put together. I was told that it had already been flowen but I doubt that it had because I had to add 4 oz of nose weight. It had a 13-11 prop on a saito 100. It flies good with that prop on it but it's hard to land. It takes forever to slow down to land. Does anybody else think it would be easer to land with a less pitch prop?
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Old 05-08-2006, 08:42 PM
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Cyclic Hardover
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Default RE: Little Toni

Honestly, I think its a "skill" thing. I have the Shoestring and a Midget Mustang. Both are overpowered and land like a dragster. So after I realized this a few years ago, I simply make my approach angle more shallow along with less speed. If your approach angle is to high, it will be hard to slow it down.

We get conditioned in flying our planes the same way. So when you accumulate several planes, you can get to flying them the same, yet we don't realize (until its too late) they all have different characteristics which we ignore.

I see guys all the time setting up for landings or some other thing in the exact same way as their other planes and they wonder why they ran off the runway or have to go around 5 times. I have been suckerd into this scenario my self from time to time. I land my F20 with a bit of speed and working the throttle because i know when I touch down, those three wheels on the grouind are going top slow it right down.
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Old 05-09-2006, 07:36 AM
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koolhand11
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Default RE: Little Toni

I have a lil toni also I started out with a saito 91...I didnt have it pitched like you but when I put a 13*8 on it, it started to move a little bit better...I didnt have problems landing it with the 4stroke, with a 4strke it will slow down really nice and not fall out of the sky, BUT you have to prop it right...Doing that you lose alot of high speed also....So I went with a OS 91 and wow what a difference it hauls butt now and it takes forever to slow down, like cyclic said line up lower and farther out will help, I found that even doing that at around 300-400' out gliding in at an idle touching down at the end of our 500' runway I still run of the end into the grass and go about 100' feet...Bottom line with me an the Toni is if I can get the wind to blow down the runway I can stop it on the runway otherwise I'm going for a walk to ge my plane...Alot of the real pilots who fly these type aircraft in real life actually shut the engine off, you might try dead sticking it in on final...

Just my 2 pennys

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Old 05-10-2006, 11:23 AM
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js3
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Default RE: Little Toni

Learn the side slip. It's fun and it'll bleed a lot of altitude without gaining a lot of speed.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:00 PM
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btoby
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Default RE: Little Toni

explain?
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:19 PM
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Default RE: Little Toni

Yes it would be easier to land with less pitch up front, but then... it IS a speed plane-

js3 is talking about using the rudder on approach to bleed altitude, it works (especially if in a cross-wind) but if you are having trouble just landing the thing then slipping would only make it tougher for ya-

Experiment with different props to find a happy medium, my guess is though that by the time you get it dialed for a tame landing, you will want more speed---
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:46 AM
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Cyclic Hardover
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Default RE: Little Toni

Well, it's like landing sideways (exagggerated) and at the last minute, you straighten out right before touchdown
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Old 05-14-2006, 08:40 PM
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Harry Lagman
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Default RE: Little Toni

Ally, theres some good advice in this thread.

I have a Toni with a Jett .90 L with an APC 12x8 on it. Even though the engine idles nice and slowly and I'm not running super high pitch, mine takes a while to slow down. What works for me is a bit of patience - as it come in on approach it will eventually start to squash in and lose airspeed a lot more quickly as it nears its stalling speed. At this point I actually use a click or two of throttle to maintain this state without stalling and bring her in at this "close to stalling" speed, controlling altitude with the throttle. The Toni is very docile at low speed with no tendency to tip stall at all.

Check the idle on your Saito 100 - it should be somewhere in the very low 2K zone with that prop. The APC 13x11 is a good choice for the Saito 1.00 for this application. An APC 12x12 would be worth trying too.
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Little Toni

Well guys....Let me tell ya, The Toni and Minow both are sleek airframes with little drag to aid in slowing them down!
I generally chop my throttle off during my cross leg going to the aproach and final. One other thing that keeps them running down the field is the ground effect. Watch your planes loss of altitude on aproach change when you get a foot off the ground...it will seem to stop. I'm convinced mine float on that pocket for a bit longer than any other plane in the stable. I read one comment about dead stick landing.....it has happened to me on both planes and believe it or not,,,it made a worlds difference in the length of runway I chew up! I dont know if it's practical to do this on purpose....but it seemed to make mine come in and set down a lot sooner. I hate walking out to get my planes after landing....The short of it is this....they are sleek and made for speed...every part of the flight is faster, including the landing. Just plan for the landing ahead of where you really want to be touching down at and you'll find yourself using less realestate.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:29 PM
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ally2mail
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Default RE: Little Toni

thanks guys all of your input helped but as with most planes stick time is the best teacher. I changed the 13-11 to a 14-8 and it still has plenty of speed and it slows down a little better. It's still the fastest plane at our field. I have dead sticked it a couple of times and it does fine not my choice though. I can land it now any way I want even with the wind witch I did after a few snide remarks from a buddy. I left Toni home for a while after I got a twist 60 , but I brought him out the last few weekends and he hovers great. so don't bee afraid to experiment with him. and Cyclic your right about landing your whole fleet differently. My latest is a 1.60 Ultimate with a 3.2 brison on it AWSOME.
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Little Toni

This might help U Guy's

My friend has a Lil Toni with a Rosi 120 on her she runs in the 130mph range.

He kept complaining about problems landing her. I mixed in up Ailerons to act as a speed brake with sum minor down elevator activated on a switch.

This helped the Lil Toni land in 350 feet and come to a stop on a paved runway.

Hope this helps U Guys

Ian
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:55 PM
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ally2mail
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Default RE: Little Toni

thanks Fly I'll try that sunday
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