Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

My proposed Patriot setup

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Old 12-19-2002, 12:41 AM
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2fast4me
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

Without breaking my personal bank... I'm considering this setup with a gp Patriot. Your opinions and reccomendations are appreciated!

Patriot
Tower .75 with 10x10 APC (I have this lying around and its a GREAT motor.. I'm guessing on the prop! What would you put on there?)
Fuel would be my usual... 5% Byron
60 size retracts (For the extra weight handling... and I also have these lying around)
Of course, the plane would be beefed up a little bit... add stregnth to the nose, and stabs, Wing center would be increased in stregnth as well as carbon fiber added to the main spar's. Minor other mods most likely would be made to handle the extra weight as it is built I suppose.

I'm not shooting for records... but would like to have a fast plane. I like having an aerobatic, speed, and glider in my fleet. I'd like to cruize in level flight at 125+ Faster out of a dive. My hopes are that this would go faster... Our runway is about 400ft so long landing rolls are okay.

What do ya say?
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Old 12-19-2002, 01:04 AM
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BruceDana
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

I flew mine off grass and learned the hard way I needed to beef up the retract mounts in the wings. Also, with that large an engine, the firewall to fuse joints could use a little glass on the inside.

Consider gear door covers. A half door (like on a Spitfire) will clean the wing up when the gear is up, ans is easy to install.

Keep it light, wing loading needs to be kept down with that kind of iron up front. The 10 x 10 pop is probably a good starting point.

The fake intakes are unecessary and add drag.

If I were to build another, I would probably omit the rudder and build a solid fin. Antenna should be completely inside the fuse. Watch the gap seals on control surfaces!
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Old 12-19-2002, 03:17 AM
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Dago Red
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hey 2fast4me---we have a guy in our club with a plane that is fairly close to the patriot. I cant remember the name of it. Ill get back to you on it. He has a .70 OS 4 stroke, and it flies great, and fairly fast. If it flies as good as it looks, I think youll have a great plane on your hands.
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Old 12-19-2002, 03:21 AM
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

I would have to say it should work fine. I can see you might have a problem with the 75 for two reasons. First of all it has a wide crankcase and it might be a tricky fit. Second, the motor weighs about half again what a 40 weighs.

I built one a couple of years ago with an MDS 58 (which weighs a little bit more than a 46) on the nose and standard size servos and a 1100 mAh battery pack as far back as I could get it. It also had full retracts. It still needed about an ounce of weight on the tail. I'm guessing it will come out a little on the heavier side, me thinks?

I recenlty obtained a new kit. The motor will be a Jett Fire 60L with the pipe down the side. It will break the bank, but I love speed. I've already broken the bank once with a Jett 50 and it was well worth the bank breaking. I'm hoping for 140+ mph. The only probelm I have is my altitude and a loss in power.
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Old 12-19-2002, 05:03 AM
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Default Concur

Everything stated above is sound advice... The Patriot may handle the 75 but that does not necessarily create speed. The Jett 50 will give you RPM's and keep the frame lighter.

If you go with the Tower your nosegear will be under alot of strain and as stated above tail weight seems inevitable.

Would be pretty fun to try though I bet! I like the gear door ideas too...

Lose the fake intakes, go solid on rudder, seal all hinge lines, glass the center section, and reinforce the horizontal stab. (I used a carbon fiber rod..)

Most importantly, give us updates and pics if possible!

Tower 75 with a 10 x 10, man I love this board!!

james
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Old 12-19-2002, 05:27 AM
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2fast4me
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

Thanks so far for all the comments! They look favorable enough for me to go ahead and go for it

The gear doors and non functional rudder sound like great ideas (No need for rudder on this plane).

When I finaly get down to the nitty gritty (Construction) I'll be sure to make a construction post for those that are interested alont with pics.

I'd like to get a Jett 50... but I just cant fork out that much right now... 2 kids, wife which I'm putting through school, house, land, 2 vehicles etc... you know the drill! Oh... and Christmas!!! No presents for the parents hehe Just the kiddies luck out this year

Keep ideas coming, I like what I've see so far!

Also in reference to the nosegear being stressed, remember, I have 60 size retracts that will be going into this plane so they will be able to handle the extra weight... though this plane will be HOT HOT HOT I'll bet with a high wingloading..
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Old 12-19-2002, 07:47 PM
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Default Carbon Fibre Rod!!!

Hey Razor how and where did you reinforce the Stab and what size CF tube did you use? I have orded two I have a quickie 40 MVVS (long roll on take off) and .49 Mvvs I think I'll have fun. Heck I know I will!!!! This will be # 4 and #5 (please don't ask about #3)

I would love to keep the rudder straight but this plane will knife edge all day long.

I love this plane.
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Old 12-19-2002, 08:46 PM
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JoeEagle
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

what type of aftermarket retracts are you going to use?

thanks

joe
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Old 12-19-2002, 09:49 PM
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Dago Red
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

2fast4me---last night while I was in bed, I remembered what that plane was, it was a king kobra. If I remember right, they do looks similar, other than the patriot haveing the flase intakes. Hope construction goes good.
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Old 12-19-2002, 11:42 PM
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Dago Red
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

--erased-- by dago red
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Old 12-19-2002, 11:53 PM
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2fast4me
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

Dago... what the heck are you talking about?
What is snaught? Is it a typo? Maybe you mean naught
which means nothingness? If so... I still have no clue
what the heck you are attempting to say.
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Old 12-20-2002, 12:15 AM
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2fast4me
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The retracts that I will be putting on there are a set of great planes mechanical that I never used. These are the 60 size and look quite sturdy.
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Old 12-20-2002, 12:20 AM
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de-kitter
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

2fast4me............

I have a Patriot with a piped Rossi 45, and the rudder flutters at high speed. Watch all your servo installations , and keep out any slop.
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Old 12-20-2002, 01:23 AM
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Old 12-20-2002, 02:05 AM
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2fast4me
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

Now... back to what this post is really about....

de-kitter, I'm planning on omitting the rudder, just glue it right onto the fin. I usualy hinge the control surfaces on... then seal the gap with monocoat top and bottom. No flutter there
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Old 12-20-2002, 02:20 AM
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Old 12-20-2002, 05:39 AM
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Default Anyhow...

I used a 1/4 " carbon fiber rod through each horiz. stab half about 4" each way. Then I glassed the top of it over the ARF foam stuff and never had a problem with it!

Hope all is well,
james
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Old 01-04-2003, 02:36 AM
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DanielB
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Default 2fast4me

What club do you fly at ?

Daniel
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Old 01-06-2003, 03:31 PM
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GeeBeer
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

2fast - I'm curious too, I'd like to see that plane fly!
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Old 01-07-2003, 03:15 AM
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Razor-RCU
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Default Need pics, need motivation!

I have a Patriot that needs final completion but I keep putting it behind other projects- :stupid: -

I need to see pics for inspiration!

james
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Old 01-07-2003, 10:07 AM
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Default My proposed Patriot setup

My best results with the Tower .75 so far is with an
11-7 1/2 MAS....on 15%.

In this Cermark .60 size F-20.

Dave.
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Old 01-08-2003, 10:36 PM
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2fast4me
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I fly at 2 different fields in Houston, depending on where I am that day!

Patriot is on its way
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Old 01-09-2003, 01:58 AM
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loopnspin
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Default Re: My proposed Patriot setup

Originally posted by 2fast4me
Without breaking my personal bank... I'm considering this setup with a gp Patriot. Your opinions and reccomendations are appreciated!

Patriot
Tower .75 with 10x10 APC (I have this lying around and its a GREAT motor.. I'm guessing on the prop! What would you put on there?)
Fuel would be my usual... 5% Byron
60 size retracts (For the extra weight handling... and I also have these lying around)
Of course, the plane would be beefed up a little bit... add stregnth to the nose, and stabs, Wing center would be increased in stregnth as well as carbon fiber added to the main spar's. Minor other mods most likely would be made to handle the extra weight as it is built I suppose.

I'm not shooting for records... but would like to have a fast plane. I like having an aerobatic, speed, and glider in my fleet. I'd like to cruize in level flight at 125+ Faster out of a dive. My hopes are that this would go faster... Our runway is about 400ft so long landing rolls are okay.

What do ya say?
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Old 01-09-2003, 02:24 AM
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loopnspin
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Hey 2fast,

I had a Patriot about 3 years ago. I used an OS .46FX with a Performance Specialties Ultra Thrust Muffler in it which gave it about 600 rpm's more than the stock muffler. I used the recommended Hobbico Mechanical retracts also. Even with smooth landings on our astroturf field, I was constantly straightening mine so they would cycle properly. I had a friend with a radar gun clock mine coming out of a high angle power dive at a little over 140 mph. Straight and level I could consistently get about 115 mph. This plane definitely sings. I built mine pretty much according to the instructions except that I used two aileron servos so I could program in spoilers to slow it down to land. Our runway is about 425 feet and it was all I could do to get it down and slowed down before I ran out of runway. I think what you should be concerned about in using the Tower .75 is that you are going to have to considerably modify the engine compartment to fit it in. Mine was tight with the .46. As the instructions state, if you use retracts, you will be limited to an 8 oz. fuel tank. Consider researching aftermarket fuel tanks to see if you can get a longer more slender one with more capacity. I got about 6 and a half minute flights with mine. Also, using 60 size retracts may extend down below the bottom of the wing due to the thin airfoil of the wing which may create drag.

If you do accomplish this, expect to land pretty fast with the additional wing loading. Keep in mind too that this plane gets small in a real hurry and it's profile is very clean so don't take your eyes off it. I don't know how much more ground clearance the 60 size retracts will give you, but the largest prop I could use was a 10 inch. But if you can use the 10x10 prop you will be fine.

Also, if you use mechanical retracts, make the openings for the main wheels on the wings at least a quarter of an inch larger than the wheels you intend to use. I made my openings to tight.

I must say that your idea is intriguing. I will be curious to know if the additional power of the .75 will offset the additional weight.
Mine came out a little heavy at 6 and a quarter pounds. Good luck.


Jeff
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