Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Starlight 40 Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

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Old 06-14-2006, 03:13 PM
  #1  
Isaac F
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Default Starlight 40 Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Have any of you have try this Starlight 40 Starlight 40 USAF U.S. Air Force model?? What about this company too? Have any one of you have order something from this dudes? http://www.nitroplanes.com

Here is the model I like: http://www.nitroplanes.com/usuairfoniga.html

I want to buy it to intall a West 50 engine with the Weston UK Tune Pipe.

What you think?

Isaac

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Old 06-14-2006, 03:47 PM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

I like it....I just ordered one for myself. [X(]



FBD.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Raidentech website has it for less money. $109, less a 10% discount using promo code: HOBBYLAND

http://www.raidentech.com/st40unstairf.html
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:51 PM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com


ORIGINAL: Kmot

Raidentech website has it for less money. $109, less a 10% discount using promo code: HOBBYLAND

http://www.raidentech.com/st40unstairf.html
[]....WHOOPS...yer' gettin' too slow on the trigger, Tom....

FBD.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

There was a post a couple weeks ago about this plane I think.... Don't remember if anyone actually had flown one but it looked pretty good and dang affordable!

Looks a bit like a Patriot- I would like to know how thick the wing chord is and how many plastic pieces there are---
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:38 PM
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Kmot
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com


ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave


ORIGINAL: Kmot

Raidentech website has it for less money. $109, less a 10% discount using promo code: HOBBYLAND

http://www.raidentech.com/st40unstairf.html
[]....WHOOPS...yer' gettin' too slow on the trigger, Tom....

FBD.

Sorry FBD!! Just cancel the order at Nitro and re-order at Raiden. Heck, they are the same company. They just play the same game as Harbor Freight. Same part, multiple prices depending on which catalog/retail flyer/website you look at.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Or, just call Nitro and demand the Raiden discount price.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:47 PM
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Isaac F
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

ORIGINAL: Kmot
Raidentech website has it for less money. $109, less a 10% discount using promo code: HOBBYLAND
http://www.raidentech.com/st40unstairf.html

Hey guys, I was at Raidentech website to place a order on this airplane but I dont find the place to put the promo code[&o] Please let me know how to do in order to save some $$$

UPDATE, OK I found where to put the code.............. Also this people want to charge 21.27 for inland freight to miami[:-]

Subtotal: 109.00
Coupon offer (10% savings): -10.90
Subtotal: 98.10
Shipping: 21.27
Tax: 0.00

Total: 119.37




BTW Kmot, thx for the tip on the discount code


Isaac

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Old 06-14-2006, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

$21 bucks from Los Angeles to Panama doesn't sound so bad, eh?
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Did anyone notice the weight listed for it? 7.8lb! With 483 sq. in. of wing that works out to a fraction over 37 oz per sq ft. Pretty high for a plane that small. The weight has to be a misprint.
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

ORIGINAL: Kmot
$21 bucks from Los Angeles to Panama doesn't sound so bad, eh?
No way!!! They charge me that from Los Angeles to Miami Florida to my forwarder.
Them from Miami FL to Panama Central America is another $$$[:@]

Isaac
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Looks good gotta get my order in
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:17 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Mine ended up....$130.74 to my door....UPS ground.

It looks good.

Look what my F-20 comes in at....with a long pipe Rossi .45. [X(]
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:28 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

51.3 lbs. Wow, that Rossi must be purty heavy...
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:56 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Okay, what's that under the grey cover?
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

ORIGINAL: Kmot

Okay, what's that under the grey cover?
....'da "bad ride'....
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:34 AM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Nice!! [sm=thumbup.gif]
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
Mine ended up....$130.74 to my door....UPS ground.
It looks good.
Hey Flyboy Dave, Could it be possible that you take some pictures during your assembly and add some coments about what you recomend to reinforce or what ever.
The same to you guys that have order this model, please take pictures and your coments. This way we can help any others that are interested in this model.

BTW, I place my order yesterday but until today I have not receive any delivery confirmation.
Also, they will send it inland freight to my forwarder in Miami FL and then my forwarder will send it to my country so I really dont know when I will recieve it. [&o] So in teh mean time I will check your pictures and your building reviews

THX,

Isaac
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:52 AM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Looks like and OK model. Looks a great deal like a plane I designed years ago called the Initator. Was a .40 size pattern plane. My canopy was further forward, but the plane looked very similar... even had a 52in wing.

However I tend to be a bit shy of published photos that do not as much as show an engine installed in the model. If that have not taken the time to at least build, fly and thus photograph the plane.... does not give me that warm fuzzy feeling. It will likely fly ok.... just about anything with a wing will fly.

7.8 lbs can not possibly be right. They have listed "Flying weight: 7.8lb / 3540g" If so, I'd bail on it. My Tipo 750 use to weigh 7.75 lbs. If they meant 3.54 lbs, that would be more along what I would want to see - which is Q-500 weight- and yet not likely to be realistic either with this model - Id expect to see 4 to 4.5 lbs and be happy

It notes on there that it is 5 channel. But it does not show any detail of retracts or photos of the bottom of the plane. Does it have retracts ?
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Old 06-15-2006, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Isaac....

....I certainly will take some build pictures. I see one thing I don't like right
off the bat....the rudder. The upright hinge line is a no-no, it invites flutter.
It should be kicked back on a 7 degree angle. Joe Bridi the airplane designer
told me that. On both my F-20's I have the rudder disabled because of flutter.
It doesn't matter if the hinge line is sealed or not. When you get to speed,
anything much over 110 mph (like in a dive) the rudder can, and will, in most
cases flutter. If the the rudder is slanted back, like on a Patriot, the dynamics
of the airflow over the hinge line is altered.

See these pics ? That's me and Razor. Look at how the hinged surfaces are
at an angle on the Patriot....good design. Look at how the hinge lines are
straight on my F-20....bad design.

FBD.
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Old 06-15-2006, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Starlight 40 Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Bob27S: Yeah, I have noticed that too. It seems, all of these ChiCom planes are pictured that way, however. They most likely just mock them up quickly for a photo shoot. Use double stick tape for the prop spinner.

Well, if it has a near 40 oz per sq in wing loading, it sure is gonna haul going down hill!
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: Starlight 40 Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Looks a lot like the Tsunami from juno.
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:22 PM
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Default RE: Starlight 40 Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Bob- The "Spoiler"!

At least it is not expensive... I personally take pictures of each of my airplanes from all angles and I am not even designing or selling them. I am just amazed by the lack of information on these new models...

If they would send me one I would do a review full pics etc. and they would sell alot more of them---

Please folks inspect EVERY glue-joint you possible can and let us know what kind of covering job is on there---


Cheers!
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com

Dave,

Joe was indeed an excellent designer.... but there really is no science behind flutter and absolutely having to have sweep angle. The sweep has more to do with affecting/trimming the pitching moment when rudder is applied in knife edge, and tends to be combined/balanced with the trailing edge taper. If, the rudder is constant chord, there is a chance you might get a pressure induced flutter, especially near the outboard edge futhest from the linkage, that because the aerodynmic forces are acting equally on a larger are of the surface.

Keep in mind, the Kaos, Super Kaos, both had absolutely vertical rudder hinge lines. As did the Compensator, and other pattern aircraft if the era, and most of the Q-500 designs as well. The P-51, and most warbirds are other good examples. But you will notice that on most of these that they have shaped rudders, not a retangular plank.

(yes, your F-20 rudder TE is tapered... not entirly sure what was up there specifically. I think the issue there is a huge rudder cord down near the bottom, combined with some "goofy" airflow coming off the fuselage and across the vertical fin. My DC F-20 never had a problem though - but yours is larger, slightly different)

If you think about it, if what you said is true, the stab/elevator hinge line would have to be swept as well, for the same reason to prevent a flutter. (aerodynamically, there is little difference in tail fins, other than the stab is trimmed for a pitching moment). And with a few exceptions, most models tend to have 0/0 elevator hinge lines.

Most control surfaces will see some mode of flutter at 'some' aerodynamic velocity and condition. If a control surface is designed well, that instablility will be localized to a small area of the surface, this the effect is minimal. In which case, the control linkage is designed with stiffness to accomodate the transient load. How bad the flutter manifests itself, and in part what frequency it flutters at, has to do with the mass of the control surface. Again, with the velocity we fly our planes at, compared with most sport models, there is more engery involved to induce flutter.

The control surface hinge gap is usually the biggest factor. Using a sealed hinge gap is important. The sealed gap prevents rapid pressure fluations caused by cross-flow from the top/bottom surfaces, that are the primary cause of flutter we find in model aircraft.

And yes, sometimes you can do everything right, and something still goes wrong.

Just as an odd example of when something can go wrong.... I had an old Q-500 Viper (the original one... plans built). I did something stupid, and made the stabilizer leading edge a bit too sharp. First test flight, even with the gap sealed, it buzzed the elevator. Linkage was good, good seal, nothing obvious was wrong. But the sharp LE was causing some extremely weird airflow over the tail and elevator. What was needed here was to change the airflow characteristics. So...... enter some packing tape and two twigs of pine straw. The pine needles were taped on the top of the stab just aft of and parallel to the leading edge. Sure enough, it did the trick. The plane flew fine. The pinestraw stayed on there for two years, until the plane met its fate.

Ive also had a flutter issue, where I chased the ailerons for a while... could not get rid of the buzz. Turned out the entire outboard wing panel was the culpret - it was fluttering at the actual wingtip. That one required a bit of surgury to add additional structure.

You are right about the slant angle. It does help change the aerodynamics enough so that the rudder sees a distributed airflow and loads. And in some cases it helps with structural loading. But it is not a necessity.

Some tricks Ive learned along the way...
The scat cat as an example - the elevator is straight - constant cord. I learned from othere, to avoid flutter, taper the elevator TE foward toward the hinge line a bit. Usually a 1/4" was enough. Doing the same to the rudder helped. On Q-500 ailerons, the ailerons are usually short (provides stiffness, avoids twist/wind-up), and sometimes on older Q-500 designs we clipped the ailerons near the tips, slight te taper forward. It changed the aero and flutter issues just enough.

Ok.. .enough... back to the thread

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave

Isaac....

....I certainly will take some build pictures. I see one thing I don't like right
off the bat....the rudder. The upright hinge line is a no-no, it invites flutter.
It should be kicked back on a 7 degree angle. Joe Bridi the airplane designer
told me that. On both my F-20's I have the rudder disabled because of flutter.
It doesn't matter if the hinge line is sealed or not. When you get to speed,
anything much over 110 mph (like in a dive) the rudder can, and will, in most
cases flutter. If the the rudder is slanted back, like on a Patriot, the dynamics
of the airflow over the hinge line is altered.

See these pics ? That's me and Razor. Look at how the hinged surfaces are
at an angle on the Patriot....good design. Look at how the hinge lines are
straight on my F-20....bad design.

FBD.
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Old 06-15-2006, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: Starlight 40 Fast plane from Nitroplanes.com


ORIGINAL: Razor-RCU

Bob- The "Spoiler"!

At least it is not expensive... I personally take pictures of each of my airplanes from all angles and I am not even designing or selling them. I am just amazed by the lack of information on these new models...

If they would send me one I would do a review full pics etc. and they would sell alot more of them---

Please folks inspect EVERY glue-joint you possible can and let us know what kind of covering job is on there---


Cheers!

Spoiler..... nah..... just a skeptic. Bugs me when there are all these pretty pictures, and then you end up cutting the crud outta the cowl to make any suitable engine fit. The engine install is part of the asthetics

In this case, its probably going to be a good plane. Price is definately right. And the Evergreen kits/arfs i have seen so far were pretty well built.
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