Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Wing Fence placement

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Old 07-08-2006, 01:56 AM
  #1  
haze_b
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Default Wing Fence placement

Aloha,

Just received a Lanier F86D from Tower Hobbies. I've not seen a lot of info about this plane, but I thought it looked pretty cool and would be a great "extreme speed" trainer.
I intend to make it electric with the following setup

AXI 2826/10 brushless outrunner
Phoenix 45 ESC
4 cell 4000mah Lipo

It has been suggested that, with the 35 deg swept wings, I may have tip stalling issues at low speeds. Wing fences have been recommended.

My questions are:

How do you determine the best location, for the wing fence? (The full scale F-86 doesn't have them, so I can't use that as an example.)

Also, does anyone make an adjustable and/or removable wing fence, or example of how to make one?

Any suggestions are welcome.

Haze
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

you could make a winglet on the wing tip like the Gulfstream G5.

even a flat plate on the wing tip to keep air flow over the wing in stead of rolling off the end.
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Old 07-08-2006, 10:39 AM
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Kmot
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

Wow, that plane does look good! [sm=thumbup.gif]
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Old 07-09-2006, 01:50 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

I would do a search on that airplane on here... I don't remember any issues with tip-stalling but I never had that airplane, I did have the lanier F-4 which flew pretty well... I would think the wing tips are washed out???

You gonna use retracts? To be honest I have no idea what the electric stuff means, can you tell us what RPM and what prop. you will be using?
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Old 07-09-2006, 01:54 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

Here is one of the threads I found with a quick search on here- I am sure there are more...

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_261511/anchors_261511/mpage_1/key_lanier%252CF%252D86/anchor/tm.htm#261511]CLICK ME!![/link]
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Old 07-09-2006, 03:05 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

How about some (clear) lexan or plexiglass about 1/16" thick? Maybe make tip plates about 1/2" larger than the tip airfoil, all the way around...you know, if your tip airfoil for example is 1" thick, make the tip plates 2" so you have 1/2" above and 1/2" below...(ahead of the L.E. and behind the T.E. too)

Over the years I have experimented with tip plates, "SFG's" and fences in various locations on the wing, stab and fin, and fuselage, and for what you want, the tip plates IMO would be the best. They might look kinda goofy on that airplane though, that's why I thought maybe clear plexi or Lexan?

Your low speed will be more stable, and the ailerons will be more effective...for starters...
I read an interesting article in Model Aviation a month or two ago, and Don Lowe suggested that the tip was the best location...he was talking about pattern flying and aerobatics mainly.
I think that depends on what you're looking for...and for what you want, I'd agree that tip plates would would be the most effective.

Do you have last months MA? I'll have to look now and see exactly which issue that article is in...

I put some side force generators I cut out of styrofoam meat trays, on my E-Flite Tribute (about a year ago, after I bought a Showtime [8D]) and I noticed a faster rate of roll, and it slows down more for landing...especially when it gets into ground effect. They are about half way between root and tip, kind of like huge fences.

If you want to experiment, get or make a profile foamy and do the old "cut and try"
I "sawtoothed" the entire leading edge the other night...looks awesome, and flys even better! They act like vortex generators...
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Old 07-09-2006, 04:15 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

Hi guys,

Thanks for the input, It looks like I have a lot of experimenting to do. I noticed another thread regarding tip stalling and refereneced this plane. Appearantly, a bit of reflex helped to reduce the effect.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_30...tm.htm#3066973

All recommendations are welcome.


Razor-RCU,

I started flying electric from the beginning, all my planes have an electric power system. The AXI 2826/10 is a common motor used to replace a .46 2 stroke and will fly a plane upto 6.5lbs

The power system I specified should weigh about 32 oz total:
AXI 2826/10 brushless outrunner
Phoenix 45 ESC
4 cell 4000mah Lipo

A 10x10 APC prop has been recommended, I'll give it a try. It should produce the following output:

rpm: 10553
static thrust: 109.1 oz
prop pitch spd: 99.9 mph
watts: 611 (100 watts per pound provides good sport performance. More is always better)

I expect about a 6 min flight at full throttle.
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Old 07-27-2006, 01:30 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

Aloha,

I made some wing fences out of birch plywood and mounted them with hot melt glue. (in case I need to re-position them)
I used a BVM 60" F-86 as a reference. Gonna maiden this weekend. I hope they help with low speed flight.

Find out soon I guess


Wish me luck.
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:13 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

The maiden went very well. The Lanier F-86D is a great flying plane. It appears that the wing fences worked as planned. The model exhibited none of the tip stalling or low speed handling issues that others have reported. IMHO, Fly it scale and you will enjoy this plane.

I also widened the main gear track about 3 in. Ground handling was fine as well.

Aloha
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

Thanks for the update Haze.....

Looks like the fences did work. Something to definately keep in mind.
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

So you didn't fly the plane before the wing fences? Maybe you are a better pilot than the guys who are tip stalling it and the wing fences are a plasebo. Either way they look good! Nice E-conversion....
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

Thanks Troy,

I wish I could take credit for being a better pilot, however all the "atta boys" i got for the F-86 flight, from the jet jocks, were wipe out by the "Aw Sh#t" of crashing my H9 Pulse XT later that day[:@]

Oh well, lose your fear, lose your plane...
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: Wing Fence placement

DOH! Bummer. I think the wing fences do help...they work on Migs as well.
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