New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
01-03-2003, 09:11 PM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
Does anyone have an idea of how many R/C pilots there are out there who fly 120 mph+ Extreme Speed Prop Planes? I talked to Steve Kaluf at AMA headquarters several years ago and he expressed interest in a new class of radio controlled extreme prop planes. He also said that the reality of this new class of planes would come only if we were organized, and if we had enough pilots interested in this particular segment of R/C flying to justify it.
I personally was never able to find out who was interested in flying extreme prop planes outside of the state of Illinois. This "Extreme Speed Prop Planes" forum has changed that considerably. Steve and I also talked about a column in Model Aviation which would covered this aspect of R/C flying, and to gain publicity, but we never really got down to numbers of what it would take to be classified as a new organized group of pilots.
Does anyone else have thoughts about this?
Bob Holmes
I personally was never able to find out who was interested in flying extreme prop planes outside of the state of Illinois. This "Extreme Speed Prop Planes" forum has changed that considerably. Steve and I also talked about a column in Model Aviation which would covered this aspect of R/C flying, and to gain publicity, but we never really got down to numbers of what it would take to be classified as a new organized group of pilots.
Does anyone else have thoughts about this?
Bob Holmes
01-03-2003, 09:32 PM
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To what end?
I'm not sure I understand what the SIG would do??
If the end result would be competition, I'm against it. Not because I don't want to compete, but because with competition comes rules. I kinda like the "Unlimited" format we enjoy now. If I want to put a 91 DF engine in a 1/2A racer, so be it.
Just like Daryl Lane's Speed trials...that sounds like a lot of fun, but somebody has already inquired as to what classes, and somebody else has responded against classes. Without classes, however, it would become an all out dollar war to see who is fastest.
So without some sort of defining structure to the SIG, I don't know what would be the purpose. Just "Planes Faster that 120"?
I guess it would be OK, but give us a little more information as to what the purpose would be. If just a loose affiliation of people who like to go fast without any rhyme or reason, sure..sounds great. But do we need a SIG for that?
So put me down as not against the idea, not for the idea..just wanting a little more info about the idea.
If the end result would be competition, I'm against it. Not because I don't want to compete, but because with competition comes rules. I kinda like the "Unlimited" format we enjoy now. If I want to put a 91 DF engine in a 1/2A racer, so be it.
Just like Daryl Lane's Speed trials...that sounds like a lot of fun, but somebody has already inquired as to what classes, and somebody else has responded against classes. Without classes, however, it would become an all out dollar war to see who is fastest.
So without some sort of defining structure to the SIG, I don't know what would be the purpose. Just "Planes Faster that 120"?
I guess it would be OK, but give us a little more information as to what the purpose would be. If just a loose affiliation of people who like to go fast without any rhyme or reason, sure..sounds great. But do we need a SIG for that?
So put me down as not against the idea, not for the idea..just wanting a little more info about the idea.
01-05-2003, 03:29 AM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
The "rules" could be very simple, the fastest prop driven plane on nitro/methanol fuel. Maybe add single engine only. Maybe some basic safety rules too.
No engine or wing area or weight restrictions. Top speed is all that matters. If you can make a .91 on a 1/2 airframe work, more power to you, but I think the entries would be more reasonable, obviously you need to pay some attention to wing loading.
I'm surprised this is not an AMA event already. Does it really require a SIG? Any AMA member can propose rules. It could start as an exhibition event at the nats.
As far as it turning into a dollar war, ask anyone who races professionally, speed cost money, there's no two ways about it. Go big or go home.
No engine or wing area or weight restrictions. Top speed is all that matters. If you can make a .91 on a 1/2 airframe work, more power to you, but I think the entries would be more reasonable, obviously you need to pay some attention to wing loading.
I'm surprised this is not an AMA event already. Does it really require a SIG? Any AMA member can propose rules. It could start as an exhibition event at the nats.
As far as it turning into a dollar war, ask anyone who races professionally, speed cost money, there's no two ways about it. Go big or go home.
01-05-2003, 03:14 PM
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Painless...
You have to be kidding if you think I was serious about putting a .91 in a 1/2A..look in the dictionary under "hyperbole"...you may find a clue there...
Then this nugget:
. So we have gone from a simple fun event to an event where, if we don't have the most expensive equipment we are invited to "go home" ? Gee, sounds like a real blast of an event. If I wanted to pursue such an event, I think 422 sounds more to my liking..oh, but then there are all those rules 
So it sounds like a bunch of guys show up and fly...HHHhhhmmm...do we need the AMA's blessing to do this?
As before, I don't see the need but hey, go for it! I would still like to see what the guidelines are...
Oh and I think Rocketman put it very well...
Then this nugget:
... ask anyone who races professionally, speed cost money, there's no two ways about it. Go big or go home.
So it sounds like a bunch of guys show up and fly...HHHhhhmmm...do we need the AMA's blessing to do this?
As before, I don't see the need but hey, go for it! I would still like to see what the guidelines are...
Oh and I think Rocketman put it very well...
Originally posted by PAINLESS
The "rules" could be very simple, the fastest prop driven plane on nitro/methanol fuel. Maybe add single engine only. Maybe some basic safety rules too.
No engine or wing area or weight restrictions. Top speed is all that matters. If you can make a .91 on a 1/2 airframe work, more power to you, but I think the entries would be more reasonable, obviously you need to pay some attention to wing loading.
I'm surprised this is not an AMA event already. Does it really require a SIG? Any AMA member can propose rules. It could start as an exhibition event at the nats.
As far as it turning into a dollar war, ask anyone who races professionally, speed cost money, there's no two ways about it. Go big or go home.
The "rules" could be very simple, the fastest prop driven plane on nitro/methanol fuel. Maybe add single engine only. Maybe some basic safety rules too.
No engine or wing area or weight restrictions. Top speed is all that matters. If you can make a .91 on a 1/2 airframe work, more power to you, but I think the entries would be more reasonable, obviously you need to pay some attention to wing loading.
I'm surprised this is not an AMA event already. Does it really require a SIG? Any AMA member can propose rules. It could start as an exhibition event at the nats.
As far as it turning into a dollar war, ask anyone who races professionally, speed cost money, there's no two ways about it. Go big or go home.
01-05-2003, 06:39 PM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
If there was such an event, reguardless of the rules, you and I both know that there are guys out there that will spend what ever it takes to win.
I know you where kiddy about the .91 in a half A. But the big engine little plane formula would be required to win such an event.
It doesn't have to be an AMA event. But no matter where its held or by whom, a little 40 powered Whip won't cut it.
I know you where kiddy about the .91 in a half A. But the big engine little plane formula would be required to win such an event.
It doesn't have to be an AMA event. But no matter where its held or by whom, a little 40 powered Whip won't cut it.
01-05-2003, 07:16 PM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
I don't fly this sort of stuff but I think it would be wise to look at some history of other "low key" competitive events.
Control line is full of them. Combat started out in the 50's as a fun style low key event. It took a while but look at what fast combat is now. Hardly a fun event.... That advancement led to slow combat which worked for about 4 or 5 years. Now slow is pretty much like fast but with hard tanks instead of pressure bladders. The only combat event that hasn't gone way beyond a casual fun thing is the old Fox 35 stunt engine class. It's hard to screw it up when the rules are THAT rigid. But I doubt you folks would want that sort of control on ya.
And then there's Formula 1 pylon, the old Quarter Midget class that it spawned and Quickie 500. More examples of the easy beginner or dabbler classes becoming anything but. As long as speed is involved anything you do to compare performances will be largely hardware driven. This will lead to a specific "must buy list" and boring model similarity. The FAI engine race is another good example of this.
With competition comes structure and with structure comes the need to win at all costs. Sure it'll improve the breed but you'd better bring a fat wallet.
You guys seem to be having a good time just horsing around and getting together for the odd fun fly. If I were you I'd think long and hard about the need for official recognition. After all, how many people do you see flying control line speed for fun on a typical sunday afternoon? The ducted fan and jet turbine crew seems to be making this concept work just fine from what I see.
Control line is full of them. Combat started out in the 50's as a fun style low key event. It took a while but look at what fast combat is now. Hardly a fun event.... That advancement led to slow combat which worked for about 4 or 5 years. Now slow is pretty much like fast but with hard tanks instead of pressure bladders. The only combat event that hasn't gone way beyond a casual fun thing is the old Fox 35 stunt engine class. It's hard to screw it up when the rules are THAT rigid. But I doubt you folks would want that sort of control on ya.
And then there's Formula 1 pylon, the old Quarter Midget class that it spawned and Quickie 500. More examples of the easy beginner or dabbler classes becoming anything but. As long as speed is involved anything you do to compare performances will be largely hardware driven. This will lead to a specific "must buy list" and boring model similarity. The FAI engine race is another good example of this.
With competition comes structure and with structure comes the need to win at all costs. Sure it'll improve the breed but you'd better bring a fat wallet.
You guys seem to be having a good time just horsing around and getting together for the odd fun fly. If I were you I'd think long and hard about the need for official recognition. After all, how many people do you see flying control line speed for fun on a typical sunday afternoon? The ducted fan and jet turbine crew seems to be making this concept work just fine from what I see.
01-05-2003, 07:45 PM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
The point of organizing would not be necessarily for competition, but for a way of like interested individuals to become recognized so that there could be "Extreme Prop Plane" meets throughout the country similar to the way the jet guys meet.
Without recognition and organization like the other groups of specialized pilots, it isn't likely events will ever get started for Extreme Prop Planes. Daryl is on the right track for this, but how many fast prop plane pilots are out there who don't know about Daryl's event in Mississippi? What percentage of the extreme prop plane pilots read this forum?
JPO has done a great deal for the jet pilots for instance. They now have events occuring every other weekend through out the spring, summer and fall.
Maybe it's that Extreme Prop pilots prefer to fly individually at their local field rather than getting together a few times a year.
Bob Holmes
Without recognition and organization like the other groups of specialized pilots, it isn't likely events will ever get started for Extreme Prop Planes. Daryl is on the right track for this, but how many fast prop plane pilots are out there who don't know about Daryl's event in Mississippi? What percentage of the extreme prop plane pilots read this forum?
JPO has done a great deal for the jet pilots for instance. They now have events occuring every other weekend through out the spring, summer and fall.
Maybe it's that Extreme Prop pilots prefer to fly individually at their local field rather than getting together a few times a year.
Bob Holmes
01-05-2003, 07:57 PM
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Tell us more..
That sounds reasonable...I just didn't want to have an anchor chain of rules bogging me down. If nothing else, there might be a few more places with speed traps to go to if there was some organization..
Like I said, I wasn't necessarily against the idea, just wanted to have an idea what the agenda was and hear a little more about the concept.
Like I said, I wasn't necessarily against the idea, just wanted to have an idea what the agenda was and hear a little more about the concept.
01-05-2003, 08:53 PM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
Just a thought but it sounds like you folks have a lot in common with the Jet Jocks. You both want to go fast but not in a formal contest situation. What about joining in with the JPO as a new group?
Of course there is always the fear that you'll be the down trodden cousin but done right and with an appreciation for what the two sides have to offer it could work well and add credability to both areas.
Even if it didn't work out in the long run due to differences or a future divergence it may be a good transition plan.
Like I said, just a thought.
Of course there is always the fear that you'll be the down trodden cousin but done right and with an appreciation for what the two sides have to offer it could work well and add credability to both areas.
Even if it didn't work out in the long run due to differences or a future divergence it may be a good transition plan.
Like I said, just a thought.
01-06-2003, 08:19 PM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
The point of organizing would not be necessarily for competition, but for a way of like interested individuals to become recognized so that there could be "Extreme Prop Plane" meets throughout the country similar to the way the jet guys meet.
Without recognition and organization like the other groups of specialized pilots, it isn't likely events will ever get started for Extreme Prop Planes. Daryl is on the right track for this, but how many fast prop plane pilots are out there who don't know about Daryl's event in Mississippi? What percentage of the extreme prop plane pilots read this forum?
JPO has done a great deal for the jet pilots for instance. They now have events occuring every other weekend through out the spring, summer and fall.
Maybe it's that Extreme Prop pilots prefer to fly individually at their local field rather than getting together a few times a year.
Bob Holmes
Without recognition and organization like the other groups of specialized pilots, it isn't likely events will ever get started for Extreme Prop Planes. Daryl is on the right track for this, but how many fast prop plane pilots are out there who don't know about Daryl's event in Mississippi? What percentage of the extreme prop plane pilots read this forum?
JPO has done a great deal for the jet pilots for instance. They now have events occuring every other weekend through out the spring, summer and fall.
Maybe it's that Extreme Prop pilots prefer to fly individually at their local field rather than getting together a few times a year.
Bob Holmes
01-07-2003, 03:16 AM
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New AMA class "Extreme Prop Planes"
I think it would be a good idea to set a category to extreme speed prop planes. But I think it would be best to just have it where anyone going over 110 or 120 is in. Or is considered extreme prop plane.
Then it would be just a matter of bringing out what you have. Weather it is a delta ,1/2 A ,or prop jet like planes just bring out to this event to fly. This way you could have many people gather together with similar or if not same planes and see what their set ups are or what they are using. To go out to a field and have the only extreme prop plane is not as much fun as going out to an event with full of them.
The only thing is the rules thing. I would rather have it just by type of plane and unlimited to power plant. Not every big engine is always the fastest.
I know for myself I would like to be at a field filled with some extreme prop planes. Much to learn see and talk about. And I am sure someone out there would have a radar gun just to see who would have the most top end.
Then it would be just a matter of bringing out what you have. Weather it is a delta ,1/2 A ,or prop jet like planes just bring out to this event to fly. This way you could have many people gather together with similar or if not same planes and see what their set ups are or what they are using. To go out to a field and have the only extreme prop plane is not as much fun as going out to an event with full of them.
The only thing is the rules thing. I would rather have it just by type of plane and unlimited to power plant. Not every big engine is always the fastest.
I know for myself I would like to be at a field filled with some extreme prop planes. Much to learn see and talk about. And I am sure someone out there would have a radar gun just to see who would have the most top end.
01-11-2003, 05:24 AM
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120 club
i think you would have to raise that speed for many of us northern cal. guys. we are racing wwII warbirds at 150-200? mph, 3-6 times a year. we go by wing area to engine size to determine what class you race. this is not ama sanctioned but follow many of the swra rules. many of the guys run a ys 91 and have reached 200?mph. why because the have done alot of work on there engines and they are running extreme nitro(80%). now your talking fun!!!
