Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Patriot 40 needs weight?

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Old 09-17-2006, 09:13 PM
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Ken Bryant
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Default Patriot 40 needs weight?

OK, I am nearly done with my Patriot 40, I have a Jett 50 on the nose. Standard radio gear and no retracts. It needs 4oz in the tail to balance, is this normal?
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Old 09-18-2006, 12:17 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Hmmm... They always come out nose havy but 4 oz. sounds like alot- The fixed gear version has the nose wheel and assembly in front of the firewall so that does not help--- I always end up filling the tail-cone with epoxy and BB's [X(]

I assume your flight RX pack is WAY back there somewhere? I like to use 6V to get my servos to 60 oz. plus the extra weight of the batt. is more useful than JUST BB's -

Got any pics?
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:17 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Pictures will be comming very soon. I was thinking of going with a 6V battery to help cut back on some of the dead weight. The other thing is I have no retract servo installed in the tail either.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?


ORIGINAL: Ken Bryant

OK, I am nearly done with my Patriot 40, I have a Jett 50 on the nose. Standard radio gear and no retracts. It needs 4oz in the tail to balance, is this normal?
I recall having about 2oz plus the big battery crammed in the tail. So its not too far off.

Bob
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Same here. I only added about 1oz and left it nose heavy. It will fly nose heavy but not as well as if it were balanced. I think the tail section needs to be longer to help with the balance.
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Old 09-20-2006, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

If I were to build another Patriot I think I would shorten the nose just a tad and extend the tail just a little also. Maybe widen the front section just a little too. If these mods were made then maybe a larger engine could be installed. The Patriot just plain needs more power than a 46-50 size engine can give, tuned pipe or not. There is too much weight and drag. The plane is built like a tank and almost as big. It is a rugged plane thought. I have had a couple of bad landings and not a scratch. Other planes would have required major work or maybe even totaled out.
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:27 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

I agree with almost everything you posted Buzzing--- Right up to the point where you said the Patriot needs more power than a 46-50 can give. tuned pipe or not.

Have you ever seen a Patriot with a Jett-50 fly? I bet you have not-

Other than the Jett-60LX and the occasional, Jett-90 the Jett-50 is an outstanding performer in the Patriot. Some people see or fly a Patriot with an OS-46FX or even a 50SX (which flies it pretty well) and think the Jett is slightly faster.... WRONG! Different level altogether!

Trust me I have had or flown 5 Patriots, from Irvine-53, ASP-46 (OS clone), OS-50SX, Webra-50GT, YS-45 (7.5CC pipe), and a couple "Jetts".

Cheers!
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Id have to agree with Razor - but then again there is rarely such a thing as too much power.

My old Patriot, 6.3 lbs, with the SJ-50 routineenly exceeded 110 mph in level flight, and had unlimited vertical. For most, that would qualify as enough power.

Yes, the design could be refined a bit for weight reduction and some more speed. But for what was intended as a sport kit, it was pretty nice.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

I conceed that there is no such thing as "too much" power [8D] I originally bought a used Jett-50 just to see what all the hype was about (from right here on RCU). The first time I fired it up and flew, I knew it was something special. I have never flown the Patriot/ Jett-50 without someone commenting about the awesome performance! I would swear that the vertical speed and rate of climb, even with a 9x9 [X(], is faster than the level flight with the OS-50SX.

Best of all it is made in America!

Bob- I flew the Jett on my Whip twice... HOLY COW! It ran great, thanks again!!!!!!
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Ah yes.. the Franken-jett Im glad it continues to run well
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

The hardest part on that Whip set-up is not flying, or even launching- it is getting it started with that big Nelson plug... 2 People necessary!

Ken- Did you fly it yet? I have flown several in a nose-heavy condition and they flew great... Not optimal but--

They say a nose heavy plane flies crappy but a tail-heavy one flies only once!

Cheers!
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

I have seen a couple of Jetts fly but not on the patriot. I would like to have a 90 to try on the Patriot but don't have $400 laying around now. Maybe one day I will strike it rich and buy one.
I agree they are fine motors but I dout that the smaller motors would overpower this large heavy airplane.
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

How heavy is your patriot ?

I thought at around 6 lbs, ready to fly with the retracts and all, it was pretty light - wing loading is fairly good. Mine flew as well as most of my older pattern planes.

A few folks have installed 90L engines in the patriots. They haul. But they all ended up over 7 lbs.

The PatXL tends to come out over 9 lbs.
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

ORIGINAL: Razor-RCU

The hardest part on that Whip set-up is not flying, or even launching- it is getting it started with that big Nelson plug... 2 People necessary!

Cheers!
Razor,

go to hobby people and buy one of these
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/237448.asp

or better yet get one of these
http://sonictronics.com/xcart/custom...cat=307&page=1
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

I haven't weighed the my Patriot but I will tell you this it can wistand an impact with the ground going in at about 75% with power on. I lost radio control with the Patriot and she flew into the ground with power on (about 1/2 throttle). All the damage to the Patriot was the firewall knocked out and the cowl broken off. With a little glue up session she was back in the air. I have missed the runway a couple of other times and no damage what so ever. I fly mine with an OS 50SX with the Tower muffler and 10X6 prop. She revs up to about 16+ on the ground but in the air it is just too slow for me. I have tried various props 9X9 9X8 10X8 wood trimed down, the 10X6 seems to work best for me.
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Old 09-20-2006, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Hmmm... The 10x6 works best for you? And you tried the 9x8? If you want speed you need pitch obviously, do you have a short runway is that why you like the 10x6?

I might try a 9x7 to meet in the middle--
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Old 09-20-2006, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

With the drag of the Patriot the speed seems better to me with the 10X6 but I couldn't tell a lot of difference. The takeoff is much better but I don't need it I take off full scale runways. The Tower Muffler on the 50 likes to spin free so I can't load it down too much. My Patriot isn't much faster than an Ultra Stick with a hot motor. It seems to be in the 100mph range or just over.
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Old 09-20-2006, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?



Flew My Patriot today. Sorry, no inflight pictures but I had 2 flights and all is good. Mine has a 10X6 prop on it at the moment. I am going to try a 9X8 and a 9x9 to see what I can get this thing to do.

Yea, I know it's not the prettiest I ran out of Yellow covering and got stuck using what I had laying around.

The total wieght I had to add to the tail was only 2.5oz I am also using a 6V AA 2500mah battery mounted where the retract servo goes in the servo tray.

The landing gear is solid non retracting. Doesn't matter, as is it's still the fastest plane on our field
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:27 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Buzzingb- Whatever you prefer... I ran that EXACT combo. on a 9x8 and it was great! I would never consider a 10x6 on a Patriot, not enough pitch to get goin', hence it is only as fast as an ultrastick....

The airplane when set up correctly can really move!

Cheers-
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:28 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?


ORIGINAL: Ken Bryant



Flew My Patriot today. Sorry, no inflight pictures but I had 2 flights and all is good. Mine has a 10X6 prop on it at the moment. I am going to try a 9X8 and a 9x9 to see what I can get this thing to do.

Yea, I know it's not the prettiest I ran out of Yellow covering and got stuck using what I had laying around.

The total wieght I had to add to the tail was only 2.5oz I am also using a 6V AA 2500mah battery mounted where the retract servo goes in the servo tray.

The landing gear is solid non retracting. Doesn't matter, as is it's still the fastest plane on our field
Ken,

Hey........ looks good to me. I like the colors.
Glad you have it in the air

With the fixed gear, you may end up finding that the 10x6 works best. But try the other props too.

Bob
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:31 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

Just how fast should a Patriot go with a regular 50SX using a Tower muffler? I have a Great Planes Viper and I think the Patriot is about the same speed.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:53 AM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?


ORIGINAL: buzzingb

Just how fast should a Patriot go with a regular 50SX using a Tower muffler? I have a Great Planes Viper and I think the Patriot is about the same speed.
The tower muffler is semi-tuned. Its effect range peaks at about 16,500 rpm. So in a way, that may be acting as a governor while in the air. The os 50 is quite capable, and loves a tuned exhaust system. Your setup is likely hitting about 100 mph in level flight.

On a viper, with a 9x7 and the OS50 with stock muffler, you should easily hit 120 (viper can get to 120 extended level flight with a TT40 pro and a 9x6 without question - flys over 100mph on the race course)
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: Patriot 40 needs weight?

How many more rpms do you think the 50 could gaine with a regular tuned pipe? I have a couple laying around here and am just about ready to install and tune one. I also have a 10X8 but haven't tried it as I think it will lug the rpms down to much. I am giving up on the 9 inch props for now as I think the 50 will never spin this prop fast enough to get it up to speed. The 9 inch props needs about 2000--3000 more rpms like the Jetts offer especially without retracts and large wheels. I have seen a Patriot with pylon wheels once that seemed to much faster than mine.
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