Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

The fastest engine for a viper 500

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Old 12-10-2006, 04:33 AM
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nitro junky
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Default The fastest engine for a viper 500

I am looking for extreme speed with a Viper 500. I have some fast planes now but I would like some thats just crazy fast. I have done a lot of work to O.S. engines in the past like porting, polishing and nitrous. But now I would like some thing with extreme speed out of the box. What is the best one to get. What are getting for rpm with what props.

Thanks
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Old 12-10-2006, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

MB Profi
Nelson FAI
Jett-60LX

The Nelson and Profi would be a waste on a Viper...I would get the Jett-50/60 and call it good.

Some other fun option:

MVVS Grrt-40
K&B 7.5CC FIRE DF
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Old 12-10-2006, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500


ORIGINAL: nucking futs

I have done a lot of work to O.S. engines in the past like porting, polishing and nitrous.

Thanks

Nitrous Oxide and a model two stroke? I didn't know such a thing was possible; please elaborate.
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Oh yeah this is the guy from the Sonic thread...That is AWESOME!

3,200 RPM's from the boost?

Pushing the envelope---I like it!

BTW- Nucking Futs, have you joined the Revvers Brotherhood? You SURE DO QUALIFY!

Cheers
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Old 12-10-2006, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Go to
[link]http://www.rbinnovations.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/34/products_id/183?osCsid=d11e33c1ae482743bf8b90f3fe256f23[/link]

and you will get all the info you are looking for. The nitrous system were made for rc cars but will work on the airplanes with some modifications. You need a different reed valve than the stock one because the engines are so much bigger! The Nos is suppose to go in the air filter but on the airplane that will not work. So take out one of the carbuetor screws and put in a pressure tap like you would find on your muffler. It is hard to find the same thread so you may have to retap the carbuetor. Mine will not stay running unless the engine is running wide open when I hit the spray. Any thing less than wide open and it just dies. I am running the S5 reed valve for the maximum size hit of spray. If you get a smaller reed valve you may not have this problem but I have not tried it yet. It comes with a S2 but you can buy a S3,S4 and the S5

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Old 12-11-2006, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500


ORIGINAL: nucking futs

I am looking for extreme speed with a Viper 500. I have some fast planes now but I would like some thats just crazy fast. I have done a lot of work to O.S. engines in the past like porting, polishing and nitrous. But now I would like some thing with extreme speed out of the box. What is the best one to get. What are getting for rpm with what props.

Thanks
Your fastest/easiest best bet here.....

buy the Viper, reinforce the landing gear and firewall area. Make sure the stab incidence is correct.

Then find a used/retired Nelson or Jett 428 Q-500 engine and bolt it on the front. Easy, cost effective, painless way to 160 mph+. Fuel with 15% standard sport fuel, use a bubble-free fuel tank, bolt on a 8.8x8.75 prop and you are good to go. Usually not hard to idenfy and purchase quality used racing engines (which still produce 85-90% of the power they once did, and are perfect for sport/speed use). Although they only have the airvalve carb, as used for racing.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:52 AM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Those Superchargers are interesting in that link: http://www.rbinnovations.com/catalog...8b90f3fe256f23

Do those actually work (in a practical sense) or are they more of a gimmick??
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:49 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

OMG!!!! Superchargers and nitrous for RC engines [X(][X(][X(]??!! The web-site says that you could put both power-adders on the engines (now how cool would that sound!!) [X(][X(]

Would these cause the engine to spin to incredible RPMs or just allow you to get to the standard top end RPM quicker (I'm wondering if we would be breaking parts[rod, crank] in these engines)?
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

My Viper has a Jett Quickee on it, I think I have an 8/34x8 APC on it and it turns well over 19000 on the ground. It is a very good match for this plane I wonder what nitrous would add to this combo.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

It sounds like I am going to get a Jett.
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Old 12-11-2006, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

The Superchargers look cool. I have never tryed one but did talk to Rb InInnovations on the phone a few weeks ago. I have been thinking about a .32 sx I have. They can make them to fit any engine. and take about 4-5 week to turn around a custom order. There is a spot on the web site that they show off some custom job they have done. They did tell me a custom job was any were from $250-$300 so there not cheap. A friend of mine told me he had one awhile back and that he had a problem keeping the belts on it. I am not sure if he had it on a car or a plane.

I've been doing a lot or reading in the car formus trying to get more info on them before I buy one. most of the guys are saying there a wast of money because they only get 5-10 mph extra out of them so you are just better off buying a new engine fot the price. So I would think that it will make the engines spin more rpm's and I am still think about it just for the wow factor at the field.
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Someone is going to have to convince me how much forced induction boost you can shove down a two-stroke's throat, especially with pipe timing. Isn't the timing going to have to be altered a fair bit to take advantage of forced induction?

As to nitrous, I don't understand the appeal for aircraft when you could lower the compression ratio a bit and run higher nitromethane content. Nitromethane has a higher monopropellant specific impulse than nitrous oxide, and you don't need gadgets on board to use it, just a properly set up engine/pipe combo.

In in each case, for sport speed, isn't more displacement the simplest option? When we have .60's in .40 size cases, it seems the most practical solution.

Whatever, just wondering out loud...

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Old 12-11-2006, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

I agree MJD..... well said.

The weight and complexity doesn't help things either.

None the less, it will be interesting to see how this works out. Im not one to begrudge another model enthusist the fun of experimenting
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Old 12-11-2006, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

ORIGINAL: nucking futs

It sounds like I am going to get a Jett.
You're gonna have to take that sticker off the left wing tip...

I was the one who mentioned the belts flying off...I think that was mainly because of a rather flexable bracket that the supercharger was mounted to.
The supercharger was on a HPi Savage .25 engine...(n-f, you know Dana, right? )
The guy had $2,400.00 invested in that truck![X(]

I have my doubts that the supercharger would live very long at the sustained r.p.m. we see with aircraft engines.
Even though the car engines see 30-35,000 (or more on occasion ) it isn't for more than a few seconds at a time.

I could be wrong of course...

Edit: I see that they have improved the bracket design...or at least that's what it looks like (to me ) in the pic.

I know from watching a Savage with the S-C that it revs quicker, and gets to it's top end quicker with the same gearing.
A Savage w/ a .25 engine and all the anodized alum. you can buy will weigh about 14 lbs. (give or take a lb. ) and w/ the 3 speed it would freekin' fly![8D]
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Old 12-11-2006, 05:22 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

ORIGINAL: bob27s

I agree MJD..... well said.

The weight and complexity doesn't help things either.

None the less, it will be interesting to see how this works out. Im not one to begrudge another model enthusist the fun of experimenting
Oh I quite agree, experimenting is fun and neat. I had no intent of discouraging that, but I would encourage a thorough reality check before spending oodles on an airplane when there may be a simpler alternative already there fo rlittle extra money. The big benefit of nitrous in a car for example, is that for street use you do not really have the option of running more exotic fuels than gasoline, so you are left with:

- higher state of tune
- forced induction
- more displacement
- nitrous oxide

as your alternatives for more horsepower; in a quickie post I might have missed one there but you get my drift.

In a model engine though, we do have the convenient, economical and simple (in comparison to superchargers and nitrous systems) option of increasing nitromethane content. The closer we get to drawing in pure, dense liquid the better. Higher state of tuning is also a pretty convenient option (or both combined), if you don't mind a loss in tractability, i.e. run a QM40 or FAI engine if you don't care about throttle.

Then there are the options of cowling that engine and pipe. Get rid of the built in airbrake on a Q500 and there's a bit of instant speed to be had.

I tend to think the car/truck market is a haven for gadgetry and snake oil.. with no major insult intended, it's just a different world.

MJD

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Old 12-11-2006, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Hmmm, I had a feeling those SC's (Super Chargers) were kinda hokey for all intents and purposes. I always love new gadgets and it seems like the car guys love to add everything they can while the (performance) plane guys like to strip as much they can off. Having been a real fan of YS motors, I wondered how those SC's would boost performance compared to the YS airchamber and SC motors. But, I can envision a small electric motor, pump, and flex tube routed to a carb intake to provide forced air induction....[sm=idea.gif] It potentially could be lighter and smaller footprint for gear, not to mention remotely mounted. The belts just look like trouble.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500


ORIGINAL: nucking futs

It sounds like I am going to get a Jett.

WHAT happened to your PRECIOUS OS.46 AX ????
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Still setting on the sonic waiting to eat some jett"s and crap out some Super Tigers
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500


ORIGINAL: Troy-RCU

Hmmm, I had a feeling those SC's (Super Chargers) were kinda hokey for all intents and purposes. I always love new gadgets and it seems like the car guys love to add everything they can while the (performance) plane guys like to strip as much they can off. Having been a real fan of YS motors, I wondered how those SC's would boost performance compared to the YS airchamber and SC motors. But, I can envision a small electric motor, pump, and flex tube routed to a carb intake to provide forced air induction....[sm=idea.gif] It potentially could be lighter and smaller footprint for gear, not to mention remotely mounted. The belts just look like trouble.

Do a search in the glow engines forum. About 1-1.5 years ago there was a thread there from a guy that had built himself a genuine Roots blower for his OS four stroke (I think it was a 70).
It involved some incredibly close tolerance machining... and it took a little more than a simple rubber band to drive the blower.

I didn't keep track of his achievements, but he had a very noticeable power gain right away, without even starting to tune the whole setup properly.

Oh yeah, and if he was to sell those things, they'd probably cost more like 3000$ rather than 300$ But since the majority of the truck crowd measures "state of tune" by "amount of money spent", that shouldn't be a problem...
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

A lot of the r/c car/truck world is "bling" and braggin'...
I think there's probably more hot air flying around from gum flappin' than the supercharger would provide...

The one that I saw work did seem to do a little, but that's hard to tell really...
The carb tuning was a bit more touchy to get it just right.
If the belt would have stayed on, it would have been easier to tell...
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:45 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Saito 72 its a work of art like the BSE Jett engines
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:38 PM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Cool!
Are you the guy that made the Roots blower (that Rudeboy mentioned?)
I remember reading about it back then...wondered whatever happened???

How's it workin' for ya?
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:17 AM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

He did say "crazy fast"

I vote for a ducted fan motor spinning a 13x13 prop cut down to maybe 10x13 (20,000rpm = 246mph pitch speed)

Let's see: OS .77VFR, too small
K&B .82 DF, better
OS .91 VFR, getting there
K&B 1.00DF or BVM .91 DF NOW WE'RE TALKING!!!!!!

So put everything in the tail to balance, move the firewall back a bit to clear the carb and help with the balancing, add cowling for the engine and pipe, and REINFORCE AS REQUIRED WITH CARBON AND/OR FIBERGLASS.



Hmmmmm, I have a $39 Hobby People Sonic 500 that I could try this on......[X(]
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:19 AM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

I'm not the 1 that made it. Just a fan of it.
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:13 AM
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Default RE: The fastest engine for a viper 500

Supercharging a four stroke, now that makes a lot more sense...
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