Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Cosmic Wind Minnow

Reply

Old 03-14-2007, 08:17 PM
  #1  
wylieruneyjr
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McClellanville, SC
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Cosmic Wind Minnow

Just order Plane from Tower Hobbies. I want some real speed out of this plane! Question, I have two near new engines to chose from. I have a SATIO FA 125, or a JETT ENGINEERING SPORT 90. The two stroke revs higher, the four stroke will pull bigger pitch and/or diameter props. Any suggestions, as which way to go and prop to start with. Both engines run very very good, and a few flites short of truely being broke-in, as stated near new 1/2 gallon on bench, 3 flights in a plane. Thanks in advance I would hope for 100 plus mph. Is 120 mph possible?
wylieruneyjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 08:49 PM
  #2  
jzinckgra
My Feedback: (11)
 
jzinckgra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Standish, ME
Posts: 729
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

The resounding answer will be to go with the JETT.[8D]
jzinckgra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 02:31 AM
  #3  
KC36330
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, AL
Posts: 5,952
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

defiantly the Jett. is it the regular sport jett (red muff) or the LX (gold muff)?

kc
KC36330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 04:55 AM
  #4  
wylieruneyjr
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McClellanville, SC
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

I have two on bench a Sport 90 L with red Muffler, A BSE 90 L with red Muffler that turns A few More Rpms Like 16200 with 11x6 masterair screw. I do have an sport 60LX with yellowish muffler turns 10x6, 9x8 ,9x9 over 18,000 on another prop jet.[8D]
wylieruneyjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 08:55 AM
  #5  
bob27s
My Feedback: (19)
 
bob27s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 5,576
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

The SJ-90L requires the "toni extension set". Dub has those available. Works for either the BSE or SJ-90L, and provides the clearance and angle required to make the installation work.

You have the standard red muffler.... with this set up start with a 12x6 prop, experiement with 11x8, 11x9, and 12x7, 12x8. Expect rpm between 13k and 14,500K peak on the ground with this arrangement - and it unloads great in the air.

As for speed, 120 is not out of the question.

This thread may provide a useful reference - Toni with 90XL power - the standard SJ90L will be a tad slower, but not by a great deal if it is propped well.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4404847
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ay74077.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	85.5 KB
ID:	642562   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fb87915.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	76.6 KB
ID:	642563  
bob27s is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 03:00 PM
  #6  
wylieruneyjr
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McClellanville, SC
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

Thanks Bob, One of the jett 90 L came with two 1/4 inch spacers. Would this work? If I sent engine back aprox how much for a LX upgrade and proper extenson, ball park figures of coarse I, d call Dub prior to shipping engine. Which one easier to up grade Sport or BSE?
wylieruneyjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 05:49 PM
  #7  
rmenke
Senior Member
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Merced, Ca., CA
Posts: 2,118
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

Hay guy: You are doing something wrong with that 60LX, mine is turning a 8.8 X 8.75 almost 20k and still on the rich side. She is new and will be cared for like a baby. Got another one for my nephew, his is stronger than mine for the time being. Sounds like you have not invested in the black pipe which is needed to make this baby really come alive. Well worth the investment, but be sure you follow the guidlines Jett will give you with the pipe, or you may hirt this wonderfull little motor. Oh, and yes, still idles and transitions just like a Jett. ENJOY
rmenke is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 06:38 PM
  #8  
KC36330
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, AL
Posts: 5,952
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow


ORIGINAL: rmenke

Hay guy: You are doing something wrong with that 60LX, mine is turning a 8.8 X 8.75 almost 20k and still on the rich side. She is new and will be cared for like a baby. Got another one for my nephew, his is stronger than mine for the time being. Sounds like you have not invested in the black pipe which is needed to make this baby really come alive. Well worth the investment, but be sure you follow the guidlines Jett will give you with the pipe, or you may hirt this wonderfull little motor. Oh, and yes, still idles and transitions just like a Jett. ENJOY
depends on which carb you have, as Dub explained to me some have the barrel machined out a fair bit more then the 'stock' carb for more air in around the spray bar. his SJ likely doesn't have the higher air flow carb. Bob might be more able to tell you the 'has / has not' on it.

kc
KC36330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 06:40 PM
  #9  
wylieruneyjr
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McClellanville, SC
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

Thanks for info on the 60LX. Dub Jett has advised I only use 9x8, 9x9, or 10x6. Ive only run the 9x8 so far, but curious what would it run like with a 10x6N. This prop was not recommend, so I don,t want to do something wrong with the engine as it is very new. I have never blown a plug, but I have had the head bolts loosen twice! Which may suggest its too lean. I keep running it rich for now. Its getting plenty of air, not inside a cowel.
wylieruneyjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 09:07 AM
  #10  
bob27s
My Feedback: (19)
 
bob27s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 5,576
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow


ORIGINAL: rmenke

Hay guy: You are doing something wrong with that 60LX, mine is turning a 8.8 X 8.75 almost 20k and still on the rich side. She is new and will be cared for like a baby. Got another one for my nephew, his is stronger than mine for the time being. Sounds like you have not invested in the black pipe which is needed to make this baby really come alive. Well worth the investment, but be sure you follow the guidlines Jett will give you with the pipe, or you may hirt this wonderfull little motor. Oh, and yes, still idles and transitions just like a Jett. ENJOY
Roger,
10x6 or 9x9 at 18K+ is what the SJ-60LX is really all about. That is the design spec. A new engine being run a bit rich with a 9x8 just over 18K is the right approach. And that is absolutely normal. He has a good engine there.

Turns the pylon (thin blade) props much higher. Keep in mind the 60LX muffler (for the side exhaust version) has a target ground peak rpm around 18K to 19K. No lower than 17,000. At 20K on the ground, you are still ok but maybe can go with just a bit more prop.

With the RE version, long pipe, 20K+ plus is normal since the pipe can be tuned that way (when requested).

As for prop recommendations for the 60LX, the 9x8, 9x9 APC are ok, 10x6, 10x7 (and pusher versions) are good - probably ok with a 10x6N (never tried one) as far as the hub/prop design go - and any of the D-1 serise Q-500 props are fair game. Do not try a 9x6 or 9x7 (standard blade) or anything smaller for actual flight - the prop designs would be pushing rpm/load limits.

Defiantely check the head bolts now and then. You are correct that this tend to indicate the engine is getting hot somewhere along the line. For flight, find peak rpm with the needle - back the engine off 500-600 rpm for flight.

Cooling air is one thing ..... but unexpected or unexplained lean/hot condition is due to fuel system problems or (likely) fuel foam.

As for the 90L to LX conversion - either engine is the same upgrade wise, but doing this is costly - new muffler, pistion/sleeve/head. For the Toni, idunno if you really want to go through that. For cost on doing this, email Dub at jett2006@jettengineering.com

The Toni extension kit has a special angled piece that tips the tail of the muffler down a few degrees more than stock so it fits as shown there. Also would need the longer muffler bolts.
bob27s is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 11:50 AM
  #11  
DHG
Senior Member
My Feedback: (7)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 928
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow


ORIGINAL: wylieruneyjr

I would hope for 100 plus mph. Is 120 mph possible?
My scratch-built Toni (basically identical to the GP version) radared 125 mph with the SJ 90L, red Jett-Stream muffler, 11 x 7 APC prop. That's an average of 6 straight runs with a slight diving entry, 3 upwind and 3 downwind, field elevation 5,400 feet. You could go faster.

Duane Gall
RCPRO
DHG is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 03:28 PM
  #12  
wylieruneyjr
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McClellanville, SC
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

Thanks to everyone who posted here. The Cosmic Wind Minnow is a little different from the Toni, Maybe a tad faster. Looks like I may not need to angle muffler down, More on that later. The ARF arrived damaged[:@] sending it back for replacement. This plane would have entire engine under cowel. I will inform on anything i can in a couple three weeks. New toy radar gun. Please continue to post any suggestions. This plane doesnt retract the gear. I may look at that very hard. Hummmm? Does the Lil Toni have retracts? Bob you are problely right about the angle down on muffler, however a quick look before I ship plane back maybe just maybe It might work without one. Will not know until later.
wylieruneyjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 04:10 PM
  #13  
HighPlains
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Over da rainbow, KS
Posts: 5,085
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

ahmm....It's a semi-scale model of an airplane that was purpose built for racing in a class that didn't allow retracts. In general the full size aircraft had a minimum weight of 500 lbs., 66 sq ft of wing area, and the same engine size and brand, being a 190 ci Continental. Goodyear sponsored the event for three years, so it was known as Goodyear Racing and later Formula One. Later they changed to the O-200 Continental, same engine in zillions of Cessna 150's.
HighPlains is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 04:33 PM
  #14  
bob27s
My Feedback: (19)
 
bob27s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 5,576
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

So much for me paying attension here...... I kept thinking Toni too (cosmic wind)
The minnow definately needs the angle. In fact, sometimes it is difficult to fit the red muffler - you can see how close the LX muffler gets to the fuselage.

A few who have built the Minnow with using the red SJ-90L muffler reported that they relieved the fuselage just a bit toward the tail of the muffler - was not a huge surgury, but worth noting here.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Om33538.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	68.0 KB
ID:	643405  
bob27s is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 06:55 PM
  #15  
wylieruneyjr
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McClellanville, SC
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

Thanks for the pics Bob, You are 100% right. I thought the muffler would maybe run under the vented portion of the cowl. No such luck. Looks like a little work in store for me. I know four strokes not your thing but you think of Satio Fa 125 pulling a 12x12 or simliar set up. No muffler issues. Dependable SPEED?
wylieruneyjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 09:28 AM
  #16  
bob27s
My Feedback: (19)
 
bob27s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 5,576
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

The Saito should work ok...... The 12x12 might be a bit light... but should be ok.

Lots of guys flying these with YS110 power, so it should perform about the same.
bob27s is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 05:48 PM
  #17  
ggroyal1
Senior Member
 
ggroyal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norcross, GA
Posts: 549
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

Little Toni with OS91 and MACS muffler.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ki18920.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	66.8 KB
ID:	647629   Click image for larger version

Name:	Vt56831.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	57.1 KB
ID:	647630  
ggroyal1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008, 02:20 PM
  #18  
mumblety-peg
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Martinez, CA
Posts: 396
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

Hi All,

What four stroke would give me the best bang for the buck on this plane. I've been out of the hobby for a while. So I'm just about starting from scratch as far as equipment goes.

Thanks
mumblety-peg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008, 04:39 PM
  #19  
KC36330
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, AL
Posts: 5,952
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow


ORIGINAL: mumblety-peg

Hi All,

What four stroke would give me the best bang for the buck on this plane.

YS 110s
KC36330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 12:40 PM
  #20  
Lutzifer
Junior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Lutzifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: JACKSON, MI
Posts: 28
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

I just got a Minnow w/ OS 91 FX & pitts style muffler but haven't flown it yet. It is winter here so I have to wait a couple more months to try it out. Anyone with any tips on this setup. I'd like at least 100 mph, but faster is always better! I've never used a tuned pipe before either. Would that improve what I got. What do you all think
Lutzifer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 12:48 PM
  #21  
phjoker
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
 
phjoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vernon, NJ
Posts: 869
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

i have the minnow with the JETT 90 LX. you will love this plane. It just glides right in with no
problems.
I also changed ALL pushrods to 440 except the throttle and changed all control horns to
the dubro HD .40-90[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEMF9&P=0]http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEMF9&P=0[/link].
I also clear monokoted all hinge gaps including the rudder.Didn't want any chance of flutter. as far as the 100mph
it should not be a problem. Mine was clocked at 135mph
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Lj23774.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	15.8 KB
ID:	889997  
phjoker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 02:08 PM
  #22  
Lutzifer
Junior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Lutzifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: JACKSON, MI
Posts: 28
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Cosmic Wind Minnow

GREAT PIC. THAT LOOKS SWEET! Any videos I can save down to watch? I think I'll start with a 13x10 prop and bounce around to a few others to see what's best. Probably try a 12 x 10 also. As long as that ones gets the plane rolling and stays with the 16k rpm of engine. Here is my Minnow.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Yw66373.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	63.5 KB
ID:	890022  
Lutzifer is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service