Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Now I'm ready for some speed..

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Old 03-29-2007, 11:56 AM
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MJD
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Default Now I'm ready for some speed..

Okay, it's not for a prop plane, but it's a tuned pipe! Does that count?

Nyuk nyuk, my pulsejet just arrived this morning. 33" long with 3" diameter combustion chamber. Throttlable using a turbine fuel pump and ESC. Rated at 15lb max although they can be pushed a bit higher at the expense of specific fuel consumption. Economy of course is a relative thing with pulsejets.

I have in mind a scaled up version of the F27 Stryker parkflyer layout, albeit with appropriate airfoils etc. But I like the planform and I think it will be a good airframe for this. The tailpipe will of course hang way out in the rear. I like the layout because it makes it fairly easy to get a bunch of fuel at the CG.

My ticket to 200mph. Or a smoking hole in the ground. Either way it will be cool.

p.s. this is the photo from the maker's website. Haven't taken a picture of me fondling mine yet.
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

Pulsejets, awesome! Hope you dont go deaf flying it Can you put up a link to the manufacture's website?

You see this yet? [link=http://www.tsxonline.co.uk/aircraft/Aurora.htm]http://www.tsxonline.co.uk/aircraft/Aurora.htm[/link]
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:36 PM
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ORIGINAL: MJD

My ticket to 200mph. Or a smoking hole in the ground. Either way it will be cool.
Awesome! I don't want one, don't know if I want to be around one flying, but that's awesome. MJD, please post a build thread, my curiosity is overwhelming for this sort of a project.


Mark
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:47 PM
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ORIGINAL: ArmedZagi

Pulsejets, awesome! Hope you dont go deaf flying it Can you put up a link to the manufacture's website?

You see this yet? [link=http://www.tsxonline.co.uk/aircraft/Aurora.htm]http://www.tsxonline.co.uk/aircraft/Aurora.htm[/link]
Nearly everything I do for fun or a job is on the hit list for hearing damage. What more can this do? Oh wait, a lot, they're stupid loud. Okay, okay, I'll wear earmuffs when I'm running it.

http://www.truerc.net/canada2/pulsej...lsejetsca.html

It is a Maxjet15, made in Quebec. The guy just developed them, and this may be the first or one of the first units made. It is a little rough here and there, more like a home shop project than anything else (which is pretty much what it is actually!) but functionally well done far as I can see so far. I know it runs, my example has been test run, you can tell by the color of the metal.

What impresses me about the engine is the light weight. I also own a Doylejet, which is heavier than a Dynajet but the same specs, and it weighs 500 something grams. This one is barely 1.5 times that, and it puts out nearly 4 times the thrust.

It uses a turbine fuel pump and and ESC to provide fuel injection and throttle control. No spark plus, you are instructed how to make a wand for starting. Spark plugs are dead weight on pulsejets anyway so I like that.

I'll rig up a test stand of course first, and dare people to stand close while it's running.

Mark: I am not the world's fastest person when it comes to designing abd building. I tend to fidget over design details a bit.. but I have started drawing it. I hope to fly it this summer though.

Armed: Yes I've seen that one, there is video on YouTube of it flying. Awesome. Also vid of Bruce Tharpe's Double Whammy as well, nice job for twin Dynajets.

For now, let the fondling continue. I'll pull it apart when I get home and give all the bits the once over of course.

MJD
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:17 PM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

I hate to rain on your parade but, you should check with MAAC before you fly it. I believe that R/C pulse jet powered aircraft are illegal in Canada.

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Old 03-29-2007, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

Ah, but this is not your average pulse jet engine. This one has a throttle!
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:15 PM
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ORIGINAL: Kmot

Ah, but this is not your average pulse jet engine. This one has a throttle!

let's call it Fuel Control

kc
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:47 PM
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....you could use it for a softball bat.

FBD.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:02 AM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

which actual planes or flying things are/were powered by pulsejets?
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:24 AM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

MJD, just so you stay on the right side of Canadian law, set it up for C/L, but have a R/C back up system just in case it comes unhooked from the lines. Those suckers do make a terrifying sound, didn't the Nazis pound England with them?
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:56 AM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..


ORIGINAL: combatpigg

didn't the Nazis pound England with them?
Yup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:35 AM
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ORIGINAL: combatpigg
didn't the Nazis pound England with them?
Maybe that's why they're illegal (?)
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:42 AM
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ORIGINAL: combatpigg
didn't the Nazis pound England with them?
Maybe that's why they're illegal (?)
most likely because they are nothing more then a confined flyable bomb and a very good fire hazard.

kc
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:56 AM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

MDJ, i don't want to spoil the fun..... but watching the vid i noticed (that) the tube gets RED HOT after a while & the the back-end catches on fire when shut down. [X(]

Asbestos is an illegal substance and very heavy (to fly)...

But again i wish you luck on the project a so post many pics

V.
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

ORIGINAL: vasek

MDJ, i don't want to spoil the fun..... but watching the vid i noticed (that) the tube gets RED HOT after a while & the the back-end catches on fire when shut down. [X(]

Asbestos is an illegal substance and very heavy (to fly)...

But again i wish you luck on the project a so post many pics

V.
This is not my first pulsejet. All pulsejets get red hot, it;s the way of the beast. There are many other ways to skin the cat other than asbestos. In most exposed pulsejet applciations, the engine is mounted free and clear of the fuselage, and a thin aluminum heat shield protects the airframe. With cooling air around the engine the airframe is fine. However if I wished to use some insulation, alumina is extremely effective. We make all sorts of heat shield structures here where I work, one example material is an alumina/phenolic composite, of which a 1/16" sheet will resist an oxyacetylene torch for longer than you would imagine. My plan is to lay up a protective skin using these materials. The technical issues involved in using a pulsejet are not an issue, I can deal with those.

I am contacting MAAC regarding pulsejet policies. I would have a hard time believing they would allow turbines but not pulsejets. Let's see.. both can be shut down on command. Both get stinking hot. Both are made of metal. Both can push RC aircraft to high airspeeds. One is noiseier than another but that issue is strictly location dependent. Thyey would have a hard time convincing me there is a logical and rational argument to disallow them in RC but not turbines. There are also other ways to secure liability insurance and TC authorization beyond the one association.

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Old 03-30-2007, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

That pulser looks great

I flew a bit of CL jet speed a long time ago - borrowed Dynajet - red

You noted making a starter wand..... what does that entail, sticking a sparkplug up the tail pipe ?
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:57 AM
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You noted making a starter wand..... what does that entail, sticking a sparkplug up the tail pipe ?
That sound more like a method of torture. Quick! Contact the Bush administration!
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:05 AM
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ORIGINAL: KC36330
most likely because they are nothing more then a confined flyable bomb and a very good fire hazard.

kc
No, no. That's LiPo's you are thinking of...


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Old 03-30-2007, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

ORIGINAL: bob27s

That pulser looks great

I flew a bit of CL jet speed a long time ago - borrowed Dynajet - red

You noted making a starter wand..... what does that entail, sticking a sparkplug up the tail pipe ?
Yeah, the difference is that is a direct injection engine versus a venturi. They tell you to run an air line and a spark probe up the rear, versus a spark probe up the yoohoo and air through the front as you would starting a C/L speed engine with a venturi and the sparkplug removed. This makes sense to me.

We are at work making a test bed for it already. Our lead machinist is an ex race mechanic and likes loud things that burn fuel, and asked me to hand over the engine as soon as he saw it, saying "we have to run this now". Fine by me!

BTW there is video of it running and throttling up/down on the website I posted above.

If my sparker fails in the field I can always shove a LiPO up the tailpipe to light it. Just poke a hole in it and toss it down the tailpipe.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

Here's a link to Bruce Tharpe's Double Whammy, and there is video here. They did a nice job on this bird.

http://www.btemodels.com/doublewhammy.html

BTW I just weighed it - 869 grams, or 1.9 pounds. That's a far better thrust to weight ratio than a Dynajet, mind you that is to be expected as you get larger.


The mfg says specific fuel consumption at full tilt is 340cc/minute which is 12oz/minute. SLURP!

I guess I better plan for 1-1/2 litres of fuel. Lucky it's only 4 bucks a gallon!
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:06 PM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

hey MDJ i'm with you on a kamikaze style plane with flames coming out of the tailpipe! YAHbaby!!!

but on a twopipestickingoutofaplane that flies like a DF for a cost of a small turbine (2x500$=1,000$)????[X(]

You've lost me there...

But if you make a REAL ugly & dangerous flying machine > a-la StarWars post a lot of pics pls! i want to seethat 4 sure

Cheers,
V.
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:35 PM
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ORIGINAL: vasek

hey MDJ i'm with you on a kamikaze style plane with flames coming out of the tailpipe! YAHbaby!!!

but on a twopipestickingoutofaplane that flies like a DF for a cost of a small turbine (2x500$=1,000$)????[X(]

You've lost me there...

But if you make a REAL ugly & dangerous flying machine > a-la StarWars post a lot of pics pls! i want to seethat 4 sure

Cheers,
V.
Well it's either going to be the F27 Styker type of planform, or a canard. I'm considering both types, but likely the flying wing.

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Old 03-30-2007, 04:26 PM
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I am contacting MAAC regarding pulsejet policies. I would have a hard time believing they would allow turbines but not pulsejets.
MJD

Now do not get me wrong here. I Pylon Race so I love fast and noisy. I once flew a formula 40 C/L speed model to a Canadian record. I would hate to see you waste a lot of time and effort.

The MAAC office might be able to advise you but MAAC does not have the authority to declare anything illegal or legal. Many years ago I was on the MAAC board and the Pulse Jet question came up. Turbines were not around then so the comparisons you made were not thought of. IF, IF I remember correctly untethered Pulse Jet powered model aircraft came under the jurisdiction of whatever civil/Military aviation authority controls things. It had something to do with them being "Guided Missiles" which of course the general public is not allowed to have. Not even noise loving speed freaks.

How the rocket guys get away with it I do not know.

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Old 04-02-2007, 09:04 AM
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ORIGINAL: Ed Smith
Now do not get me wrong here. I Pylon Race so I love fast and noisy. I once flew a formula 40 C/L speed model to a Canadian record. I would hate to see you waste a lot of time and effort.

The MAAC office might be able to advise you but MAAC does not have the authority to declare anything illegal or legal. Many years ago I was on the MAAC board and the Pulse Jet question came up. Turbines were not around then so the comparisons you made were not thought of. IF, IF I remember correctly untethered Pulse Jet powered model aircraft came under the jurisdiction of whatever civil/Military aviation authority controls things. It had something to do with them being "Guided Missiles" which of course the general public is not allowed to have. Not even noise loving speed freaks.

How the rocket guys get away with it I do not know.

Ed S
Hi Ed,

We've met before by the way - at pylon races in Orangeville a few years back, at the 3rd and 20th flying site. I was a member of that club for a while and live nearby still.

I am not taking you the wrong way at all, I know you're a pylon guy not a glider guider so I never imagined you had something out for pulsejets.

I was under the impression, perhaps erronously, that RC pulsejets were okay so long as the engine was not enclosed. Maybe that is the AMA rule not MAAC's.. been a while since I read that. I can also imagine that MAAC does not have to deal with this question on a daily basis.

I do not have a reply yet from the jet guy, so no news there. As I suggested before though, I think it would be very hypocritical to write rules that provide a framework for turbine flight, while not permitting pulsejets. If the response is negatvie I do plan to bring this up in spades. Consider that turbines have been flown at speed noticably exceeding anything an RC pulsejet has done. Not that they're slow, the group in the Netherlands that flies PJ's of this size have clocked some impressive speeds.. see

http://pulsejet.amtjets.com/index1.html

The engine I just bought is suspiciously close to this one in design.. which is good because they are proven. I've had their drawings on my desk for a couple of years now but never started cutting metal - the availability of this Maxjet saved me that hassle.

The civil aviation authority is Transport Canada. I deal with them regularly as I am the TC regulatory liaison for the Canadian Association of Rocketry, and we deal with the same group that would be involved in this. Considering it is easy to get TC authorization to launch rockets at Mach 3 to 40,000 feet, it would be hard to imagine there is no way to secure permission to fly an RC pulsejet. Anyhow if I need to find if TC has any rules disallowing PJ's I know exactly where to go, but I will wait for the MAAC rep's reply first.

In the meantime I don't care and will plug away at an airframe for this! There will be somewhere and somehow I can fly it.

Cheers,

MJD




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Old 04-02-2007, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: Now I'm ready for some speed..

MJD, how much vibration does your motor put out? If I had one of those, I'd head out to eastern Washington's high desert and find 50 square miles with nothing around. Up where you live it shouldn't be too hard to find some place to light it off, just keep driving North .
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