Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

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Old 04-09-2007, 01:01 PM
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Clean
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Default Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

I'd like to introduce the Flipper and Flipper Deluxe, a couple of SPAD designs I'm working on. I've been flying the Flipper for several months now, but really got to put plenty of flights on it down at Spads over Texas a couple weeks ago. Speeds in dead wind are between 100 and 105 on the Irvine powered 9x4 prop, I have just started playing with props don't don't expect a whole bunch extra with this engine. However, with an APC 8x6 and maybe a moose can, the Irvine will pull this thing right along I'm sure. It's rock solid and quick plastic build. I've have tape of it going by that according to the sound recorder it was doing 128mph, but that was downwind, upwind was quite a bit slower. MAN it was windy in Texas that day.

Pictures

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5077537

With the success of this airplane I started on the new bigger ship, the Deluxe. It sports a GMS 47 and is just a tad bigger, 48 inch span vs the 44 of the original. Did not get to put the maiden on it last week and am looking forward to maybe Thursday to this weekend for it. I'm hoping for similar performance from the Deluxe as with the Flipper. Maybe more as the GMS is a pretty cheap Monster and has pulled my Bulldawg up to 131. Small numbers really, barely faster than sport ships, but they don't cost that much. About 4 bucks of 2 mil coro, another couple bucks of 4 mil and a 2 dollar piece of PVC unless you fold the fuse out of Coro.

Picture of the Deluxe and pilot.

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5154884

Evidently I don't have the plans updated for the Deluxe. It is fairly proportional to the Flipper but includes a rudder cut out of the same profile. Here is the Flipper/Deluxe concept drawing and the plans for the Flipper.

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5146929

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5132090


The landing gear under the concept is a removable dolly for ROG. You key the nosegear into the engine mount and strap the back to the fuse with wire ties, then plug the servo into the rudder slot. It is designed to be CG neutral so a handlaunch is only a snip and an unplugging away. It works really well on my Plastic Concepts Talon, but I'll probably remove it from that plane and put permanent gear on it as it's a real fun plane to shoot Touch-n-goes with.

Just fast cheap plastic. Hope you like it.

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Old 04-09-2007, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Looks like a well thought out design with very few parts. That engine has to be screaming to get over 100 with a 4 pitched prop! It's a .25? I've heard good things about Irvine, just never seen one in action.
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

You can here the tip noise a mile away. I have 3 of the Irvines, bought em for combat once upon a time. Two of them scream like my Norvels do, but at a higher consumption rate. But the Norvels really don't like to go up in load much. It sounds impressive even if it isn't going anywhere really fast. I swapped to an 8x6 later in the day, but it was still MA which on several previous planes didn't pick up much more speed. But it did seem to put even more edge on it, just didn't have a recorder going at the time. At the end of the day I was pulling way high upwind and then surfing the 20-30 mph winds all the way down to go zipping by at what I'd guess was close to 140-145, then troll back upwind as close to the ground to stay in the 10 mph zone. It was zipping by around 100 that way. One of these days spring will be sprung and we'll get calmer flying days.

I used to run the Irvines on my Open ships with 8x6 props and 40% nitro, till the lower end came apart on one of them (the now slower one) Sent it back and they rebuilt it, but it's never been the same. I'd launch off the ground turning 22 and it unloaded crazily in the air. You'd think it was a very loud Cox .010 from the pitch.
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Too many people don't know what they are missing by not flying plastic. I have plenty of speed setups but some of the most fun I have is going out and ripping it up with my spads. I almost always take my tail dragger DPS out to the field with me, which moves out preaty good with a Magnum46 so I put another one together a few weeks ago with a Magnum 52.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Send your shirt back heathen!

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Old 04-09-2007, 04:53 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Clean,

I fly spads alot and we have a blast tearing them up on the weekends in combat. I noticed that you are using elevons on the spad. What do you gain? I am always looking for an advantage!
One of the guys put a 32 SX on his a week or so ago and that thing was smokin' fast. The spads are a blast to live on the edge with and sure enough "fly em' like you hate em'!"
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

This is the one that I fly
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

http://www.putfile.com/mrclean417/images/94638

Build photos in their folder. It starts off on the first photo as listed last, so hit the Previous button to go through. Some are pretty redundant, but I wasn't posting a build thread here really. If you look in the photo you can get the description of the photo and follow along. I forgot to add anywhwere that the spar on the Flipper is 3/4 inch screen window bracing. You'll find it where you find all your screen window mending needs. The spar on the Deluxe is 1 inch of yardstick laminated with Poly U. ALL glueing was done with Poly U glue. Coro to Coro bonds were first gone over with a Woodpecker covering tool, then Poly U glue mixed with water, to the consistency and look of honey butter, was smeared on. Forcing the glue through the holes in the coro creates rivets that make a strong bond. Mixing in with water first starts the foaming and finishes it in half an hour rather than the several hour expansion time normally associated with the glue. It also sets in about an hour instead of at least 4.

The Elevon servos are covered with packing tape and siliconed into the wing. The Flippers servos were in a DDust that I got tired of. I had to destroy the wing to get the servos out, they'll hold.

What advantage do you get with Elevons? Well, on a flying wing you get control and I've always thought that was a major advantage. Flying wings have less drag. Flying wings look cool. They also need their CG a little farther forward than a normal wing, which is standard aerodynamics for flying wings. But they also are a little less stable on the yaw axis than I like. I've got several Zagis for sloping, and have flown a couple or 3 Gremlins and a Predator and I liked em, but this one is different. Can't say it doesn't have any background in the Scimitar series, I liked the looks of that airplane too. But it's REAL heritage comes from two planes. The concept plane is Tim 'The Grim Reaper' Tongs Sickle. I wanted a plane that had the fuse on the underside though, so I 'Flipped' his plan over and started editing. Then, as I wanted a bit more wing I used the wing design off of the Elgin Illinois clubs SPAD Club Racer. It's basically a stretched Sickle wing. I flew a Club Racer at last years SPADfest and came home to build my own. So, flip the thing over, use the long wing, hmmmmm gonna have to put the fins on somewhere, ok, leave a little fuse behind the wing and use one central fin. I suppose you could use two but I liked the one fin sandwiched between PVC. That's Poly U, water and woodpecker territory too clamped together and it's pretty permanent. With all that weight in the back, you have to have a little longer nose, I left it long and cut it off till the balance was at 16%, you can always add tailweight. And that's where the design comes from.

So with Elevons we have less structure, less weight and less drag. And heck, if I put a tail on it, I'd have a Club Racer. And I already HAVE a Club Racer. Here's a link to a video from SOT, I make a several passes in the tape but they weren't the high speed passes of later in the day with the 8x6 prop. The coolest one of which was when another pilot and I were up chasing each other around, he with his Bulldawg. I heard him trolling upwind low and as fast as possible when I was already way high upwind, so I held off till I thought it was about time, rolled over and did a big split s. You could watch the airplane get pushed in towards us as it continually cut into new wind and gusts. Just as his plane was passing in between us I came over the top of his with about 15 feet of seperation. Scared the bejeebus out of him. It was really cooking there, well ground speed wise anyways.

Video Link http://media.putfile.com/Picture-180

I've got a thread up over at spadworld. I'll finish up on the build thread after flying to see what I need to do different. I probably would leave the fuse an inch or two longer, there's barely room for the switch and an 85mg on this one for the rudder. I would have preferred a standard servo. Ahhh prototypes. I also have a Corofuse that is about half the weight of the PVC and availble whereever you can buy Coro, or steal coro. That can't be a bad thing.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

PhJoker is that a Sickle or a Gremlin?
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Old 04-09-2007, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

its acually called a shark. Got it on ebay about a year ago. The guys still makes them but now they are only for a .25 2stroke
the one I have is for a .46 2stroke and is a little bit bigger[link=http://cgi.ebay.com/RC-AIRPLANE-25-SIZE-COMBAT-PYLON-RACER-SHARK-ARF_W0QQitemZ290101958863QQihZ019QQcategoryZ19164Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]CLIK HERE[/link]
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Old 04-09-2007, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Sorry Vic I had a weak moment what was I thinking but can you find a spad in this picture with a SJ50 on it.
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Old 04-09-2007, 09:58 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

2 outlaws, 3 diamod dusts and a DDust?

Yea, that's a Sickle alright.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

If you could take a picture with something other than your phone it may help me. But here is my guess. The red and white in front has a look of Coro but can't see the engine clear enough, otherwise it is the orange and white in the rear to the right.
The shirt comment was meant for Clean[sm=wink_smile.gif]
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

It's the one in the rear on the right. 2 Outlaws, 2 Diamond Dusts, 2 D-Dusts.
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Old 04-11-2007, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Standard size DDust with a 50 on it? Man, I had the 25 on mine and at 127 it was just a little blur, I can' imagine what double to tripple the horsepower would be like on one.

Do you have any problems with trim? Somewhere I had a warp on mine. At 90, 9x4 prop almost full out, I didn't have too much trouble but at 100 I had 3 clicks of left trim and half at 110. The pass that I had logged at 127 I brought it by the recorder was satisfied with the proximity of it and went to roll left to turn around and come back the other way, it was a windless day. Problem was, although I didn't realize it I was already leaning all the way over on the left stick. Well I chopped throttle and pulled up, the drop in airspeed had me upside down and in a curlyQ. Luckily, spads can fly through trees. I switched back tothe Bulldawg after that, but it has a little of the same left hand high speed roll problem.

Just wondered if there was something I was forgetting or needing to do with these little deltas that I'm not doing. The flipper is solid, no trim needed.
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Vic a camera phone we don't have those up here

LD you are right except only one Outlaw the yelow and green on is a Whiz.

Clean the red ddust has a 36 on it and is 30 inch span the rear of the wing is swept so wing area is about the same as the 28" span but I think it is a little more stable. The orange with a SJ50 is 35" with the same sweep on the trailing edge.

I have my radio set up with about half as much throw to the left as the right in both high rates and low, I have built several of these and this setup seems to work really good especially at high speed, and just a slight amount of reflex. I have been going to build a bulldog just haven't got around to it.
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

So I was right the orange one?

The all look great I have flown pleanty of plastic myself. I just enjoy throwing out a good tease once in a while.[8D]
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Flipper/Flipper Deluxe SPAD Speed

Flew the Deluxe yesterday and have video of it. Not the best video by the way although the original on my home computer looks better than the youtube version. Then again, I'm taking the whole thing with a 50 dollar Digi recorder thats essentially strapped to my hardhat, so it's as good as I can do. But, with the exception of having fuel delivery problems making my engine unreliable, the flight was straight forward and trouble free. This is the maiden video, minus a couple minutes of flybys, throttle adjustments. It flies easier than it's skittery little brother and just as fast as my Topdawg which I also flew yesterday. Heck, I'll throw those video links in too. You can't really see although I talk about it in the video, but I had a fuel leak in my Flipper and the velcro holding the reciever and batterypack let go, so during a pass the battery came sliding out the rear. Luckily I've got wire ties on that thing to the switch which is screwed into the fuse. The switch wasn't going anywhere so I made a safe recovery, soon as I noticed it hanging out. You'll see.

Flipper-Deluxe
Flipper Video
Topdawg Video

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