Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

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Old 06-11-2007, 07:24 PM
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Flying freak
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Default Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

Hi

Im wondering if this engine is worth saving up for? id like to put in a a q-500 type plane somthign like a scat cat or a viper

What do you think

(i want to buy one engine that will last a while...)

Steven

(ps how much cutting will i have to do to fit the pipe also does a pipe come with this engine?)
please comment either way...
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Old 06-11-2007, 07:55 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

I don't own a jett yet. But from the information on this site they are very strong motors, above your average sport engine. I own a Viper so I can give you information on the pipe. Being this plane is a high wing and the engine mounts on its side. A Fire engine looks like it would run the pipe right along side under the wing without much if any mods at all. That shouldn't be a problem on this plane.
Also if you don't want to break the bank a TT.40 or .46 runs great on this plane and they last a long time if you take care of it (No lean runs). My TT.40 is probably in the 115mph range all stock. This is my first Q500 type plane, so i'm taking baby steps towards a jett.
A Jett will take it into the 150+ range
Hope this helps, good luck
Russ
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:10 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

Jetts are great engines If you are chasing absolute power output, they are certainly one of if not the best.
The pipe does not get supplied with the engine - you order that from them separately to suit your application.

Like any high performance engine you must maintain them in peak condition if you want peak power all the time.
There was a guy at a field where I used to fly that had the 50 FIRE in a Viper - I think he used the riser header and pipe and it did indeed run alongside easily as Destiny-RCU has suggested it will, I don't think he had to do any cutting at all to fit it and it was a very fast combination.
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?


ORIGINAL: Flying freak

Hi

Im wondering if this engine is worth saving up for? id like to put in a a q-500 type plane somthign like a scat cat or a viper

What do you think

I think it'll go like a bat outta hell!
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:43 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

No, it will suck. Save your money for an OS or a TT... You'll fly the crap out of them Jett guys!
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:04 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

Steven,

In my opinion, if you want to fly a quickie style airframe, stick with a quickie style motor. Both the Jett and Nelson Q500 .40 motors run great and you don't have the hassle of a full tuned pipe.

You will still be looking at around 160 mph with a quickie airframe, not really sure the 50 fire will even be faster.

There have been quite a few slightly used "good" nelsons up for sale on the auction site due to the NEW Nelson LS that recently came out. Most are from well known national racers that take care of their stuff. If you have a question about any of those auctions, and the people selling them, send me a PM.

If you want to look at a Phenom, whiplash, Diamond dust, Speedcup, etc.. I think thats where the FIRE is more suited.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

Steven,


Nope this is a terrible engine for you to use in this application.

So here is what to do with the Jett 50, put it carefully in a box take it down
to the post office, mail it to me and I will make sure it finds a home on
the front of my new Whiplash.


P.S. Please include the pipe if you would be so kind.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:55 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?


ORIGINAL: The Internet Killer

Steven,


Nope this is a terrible engine for you to use in this application.

So here is what to do with the Jett 50, put it carefully in a box take it down
to the post office, mail it to me and I will make sure it finds a home on
the front of my new Whiplash.


P.S. Please include the pipe if you would be so kind.

Just to be clear on this before I get flamed.
The only thing better than owning a Jett is,
OWNING A JETT FOR FREE !!!
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:50 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

Jett is a good idea
Rear exhaust is a bad idea

get a side exhaust, comes with the Jett-stream muffler and it will fit on your ship with no cutting-
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

While the 50 sport exhaust might be better for this applications i will eventually be putting it on a DD or similair airfram, and can only afford one engine (i only have a part time job) so i want to have a great engine for those planes and just use a q500 airfram to get used to the speed before putting it on a flying wing...
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:32 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

then you might aswell spring a little extra and get the "LX" liner.....higher timed thats what they use on the those whiplashes and great on the DD too
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

On a Q-500 airframe.... skip the FIRE engine, and simply go with the standard sport jett side exhaust version. The drag and complexity are really not worth the headache, and the RE engine is not going to be much faster (if at all).

The installation is simple, and the performance will keep you smiling for a long time.

A SJ-50 engine with the SS muffler and a 8.75x8W prop will make a Viper the fastest plane at most flying fields.

If you want just a bit more than you ever imagined, the SJ-60LX is the same size and appx weight -- just a bit more power.

Even if you move on to a Shrike or Diamond Dust later on..... or something similar..... the side exhaust engine will work quite well. So if you will only be buying one engine.... you will want the side exhaust.

A SJ-50 with the standard jett-stream muffler is by far the more versitile engine. You can set it up to go fast with a 9x8 or 8.8x8.5, or set it up in a small ugly stick, bolt a 10x6 on the nose, and enjoy it just like any other sport engine.

Save the FIRE experience for latter on..... it is best utilized in a good pattern ship or a Phenom or something with designed-in provisions for RE.

Bob
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:45 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

I get what your saying its just that i have another airfram in mind that would actually run rather well with a FIRE a kougar a guy in my club makes them and it would be easy to run the pip stait back also i have been told that with the rise header the 50 will need no modification on a viper...
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Old 06-12-2007, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?


ORIGINAL: Flying freak

I get what your saying its just that i have another airfram in mind that would actually run rather well with a FIRE a kougar a guy in my club makes them and it would be easy to run the pip stait back also i have been told that with the rise header the 50 will need no modification on a viper...
If you can figure out the pipe installation on a viper...have at it. However that full pipe installation on a Q-500 is rather combersom. We did that for a few years in SEMPRA racing, but we ended up using 3.5cc pipes on the Rossi and Webra .40 engines - simply to allow them to fit on the aircraft (engine side mounted, pipe runs under- ground clearance issue where the aft end of the pipe hits the ground)

FIRE on kougar is not all that easy either. I have actually done that, (old OS46VF) and seen it done a few other ways by other modelers. The engine position, canopy and wing location make it a bit tricky. Possible..... just more complex. If for looks only, I say go for it. Definatly no performance benefit over a side exhaust with this aircraft.

One other thing of note..... when you set up the full size pipe, the installation is much more sensitive to rpm and prop selection. You tune for a specific prop, and a narrow peak rpm range. It is less user friendly. The jett-stream side exhaust muffler is also tuned, but offers a broader range of rpm, and thus it is easier to select a prop for your application, and no tuning is necessary.

If you order a FIRE .50 and pipe combination, it will be provided to you pre-tuned. However you have to specify the application, or the prop size you wish to use.
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Old 06-12-2007, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

Well we have more than answered your questions even though you have changed the parameters a few times.

It sounds like you want a FIRE.... So get one.
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

One last round of questions

Is there a preformance differenc between a fire and sport i was told by the lhs that a re exaust will always give you more rpm, and i was also told that a full legnth pipe will give me more rpm so those 2 factors led to me thinkign about a FIRE

ARe these to statments untrue^ is there a preformance difference?
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:02 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?


ORIGINAL: Flying freak

One last round of questions

Is there a preformance differenc between a fire and sport i was told by the lhs that a re exaust will always give you more rpm, and i was also told that a full legnth pipe will give me more rpm so those 2 factors led to me thinkign about a FIRE

ARe these to statments untrue^ is there a preformance difference?
You have been given good advice in the responses here in your thread. In high performance engines such as Jetts and Nelsons, the potential for high performance is there. Actual peak performance is mostly in the hands of the operator.

Front Intake Rear Exhaust is generally simply to make pipe set-ups easier. Any front-intake engine has certain limitations imposed by the hollow crankshaft, whereas Rear Induction can have better intake timing along with a solid crank. For true higher performance the RI is the preferred, however there is not much going for RI, in RC now since the demise of Formula I Pylon.

Still I hear confusion as some associate RE with RI. OTOH, since I don't really keep up with racing anymore, I am not really up-to-date on the latest technology, or even the latest several technologies, however I use to break some crankshafts using pipes in FIRE engines. Some fun.

Pipes, as said above, when used for really high speed running can, if properly tuned for the RPM, provde many extra RPMs. The RPM range and the LENGTH are critical adjustments, and when you get it right, you can well lose it once in the air, especially if you tune for a double pressure wave. (DPW can sound like an afterburner when it kicks in -- not good for engine life.)

Those pipes hanging off Ugly-Sticks, on a sport-ported engine, seldom add much, other than weight. Pattern fliers can get some minor boost with the LONG pipes, but good muffling and less goop on the model, plus "status" are their best items.

Now I suggest you do as you please and experiment. Besides there is the most fun ever in this toy airplane sport -- just trying all your own ideas and seeing what happens. Hard to beat, and that is where most of the experts get to be expert.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

ORIGINAL: Flying freak

One last round of questions

Is there a preformance differenc between a fire and sport i was told by the lhs that a re exaust will always give you more rpm, and i was also told that a full legnth pipe will give me more rpm so those 2 factors led to me thinkign about a FIRE

ARe these to statments untrue^ is there a preformance difference?
Like Bob said -
"the RE engine is not going to be much faster (if at all). "
Unless you are proficient at tuning rear exhaust your performance could be worse. Then you have to re-tune the pipe just to change props. A possible gain of a couple hundred rpm is not worth the trouble for most. The side exhaust engines work well with most airframes including the Dust.

EDIT-Were your friends comparing RE tuned pipe to stock exhaust or the tuned muffler like you get on a Jett? There is a huge difference compared to a stock muffler but very little compared to a tuned muffler.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

The lhs owner told me that the RE will always have more rpm (assuming same setup) because the air doesnt ahve to go around the corner if you will to go out the side, it goes strait through from the front to the rear..

Does that make sence?
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

ORIGINAL: Flying freak

One last round of questions

Is there a preformance differenc between a fire and sport i was told by the lhs that a re exaust will always give you more rpm, and i was also told that a full legnth pipe will give me more rpm so those 2 factors led to me thinkign about a FIRE

ARe these to statments untrue^ is there a preformance difference?
You were partially misinformed (and there is by no means any form of a straight flow-path through the engine to the exhaust or boost ports)

Correct answer to these questions is "SOMETIMES"
Again, as I explained, it is ALL about how the engine is set up.

The old OS61 FSR (side exhaust) ran exactly the same as the OS61VF (rear exhaust). Same props, pipe length and fuel.... same performance. Same can be said for the YS60, YS45, and mainly holds true for a Rossi 60/61.

I might argue I could get the OS61VF to run at higher rpm, with a smaller prop (or in a fan unit). But the key there is, that it was "easy" to get the pipe short enough. It was not "practicle" to cut the side exhaust header short enough. Again, an illustration of setup... not really a difference in the engine.

SOMETIMES a rear exhaust engine does perform just a bit better. But those are special design engines in the first place. And often only "better" engines are offered as RE versions anyway. So perhaps there is some of the myth.

As for Jett, the SJ-50 and FIRE-50 use exactly the same internal components... they run basically the same. Both are very user friendly engines. Yes, you will see an extra 300-400 rpm perhaps from the FIRE with the big pipe (same prop).

The only Jett engine I can possible argue as the FIRE having an advantage is the FIRE-60LX. Has to do with the sub-port induction, and the sleeve is just a bit different on the SJ-60LX. Even so.... its hard to really isolate or quanifiy the performance gained.

If you are interested in the FIRE engine... go for it.

Of note, leadtime on delivery of engines is now about 4 weeks from time of order.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: Jett 50 FIRE anygood?

A really long time ago, Bill Wisniewski told me that he thought you could make more power with a side exhaust engine, but that the difference was quite small. The drag of the installation makes more difference.
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