Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Bladder tank or not?

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Old 06-21-2007, 02:24 PM
  #1  
Flying freak
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Default Bladder tank or not?

viper 500 arf comes with a standered tank im going to be putting the jett on it first time with a preformance engine do i need to put a bladder tank in? if so what is the biggest i can get in there?
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Definately use a bladder tank, it solves all sorts of engine problems. You will need a syringe to fill and empty it. Jett sells them.

The 6 1/2 oz Tettra is the same size as the 5 1/2 oz just longer. Jett makes a 6 oz round tank that is 1 3/4"dia x 6 1/2" O/A. Jett also makes a 6oz CG tank that is short and about 2 1/4"dia. I do not have a picture of the short one.

I would suggest the Tettra 6 1/2 oz or the Jett 6oz long tank.

Ed S
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Woudl these tanks fit in the vipers fuel tank compartment without and need for mods?
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:41 PM
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daven
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

I got a 5 1/4 oz tank in my Viper. I did have to notch out the front former for the throttle cable, but I don't remember needing to hack anything else out of the way. You just to be carefull that your front wing bolts aren't too long, or you may screw them into the fuel tank if its not perfectly centered.

I would absolutely recommend a bladder tank for any high performance motor like a Jett.
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:39 PM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Here is another point of view. Bladder tanks are good but they cost and are not your only option. In my two Q-500 planes powered by Sport Jett engines I ran standard 6 oz slant tanks for many many flights with out problems. They will lean a little as the fuel is used but a good foam padded tank with out leaks (no bubbles) can work well. If you can afford the bladder tank then get it but there are other options.

This is not disputing daven or Ed Smith but another point of view was needed.
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:59 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

A bladder tank is cheap insurance against a lean run.

Ed S
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

The Jett 6oz tank is a perfect fit if you want to move the tank backwards to sit on the CG. That way you can put your battery in the tank compartment, which solves the tail heavy problem.

You don't "need" a bladder tank, a standard tank will do the job too. But like Ed said, it solves a bunch of problems. Your needle settings and engine performance will be a lot more consistant. It will also prevent cooking your engine by running foam through it instead of fuel.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:27 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

I have a Jett 6oz. slim in mine...Very little fitting needed with F2. I won't run anything else again. Being this is my first bladder tank. I love it..
Another little pointer if you havent already. Order new wheels when you order the tank. The stock ones just plain stink.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?


ORIGINAL: Ed Smith

A bladder tank is cheap insurance against a lean run.

Ed S
Are you saying you can't have a lean run with a bladder tank?
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Old 06-22-2007, 04:08 AM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Of course you can have a lean run with a bladder tank, but then it will be you just plain your own fault. If you set it lean, it wil run lean obviously.

What Ed means is that you won't be flying around for like a minute or more, running on foam instead of fuel, and cooking your engine in the process.
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Old 06-22-2007, 06:07 AM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Are you saying you can't have a lean run with a bladder tank?
Mike, It sounds as if you have never used a bladder tank. As Rudeboy wrote, a lean run is possible but it would not be the fault of the tank. In your own post you wrote that a regular tank would cause a lean condition as it emptied. The bladder tank will not do this. Whatever the needle setting/fuel supply at launch will not change during the flight If the needle is set wrong that is what you will get. The fuel pick-up is in a solid bubble of fuel for the duration of the run, no air bubbles, no frothing. The tank does not have to be wrapped in foam. No air can enter the bladder. I hold my tanks in place with a strip of Velcro.

I use them on my sport planes as well. Needle problems are a thing of the past.

Try it, You will like it!

Ed S

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Old 06-22-2007, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Ed even installs the tanks backwards sometimes

(so have I for that matter... the tank doesnt care which way it is pointing)

Good information posted.

A quick summary of how I look at this....

If it is a sport jett 46/50 engine, OS, TT, ST, Rossi, etc.... ---- lower rpm setup (17,500 ish or lower) you can use a properly installed standard tank.

If you use a higher tuned engine, a Q-500 engine or high timed piped engine (ie, FIRE, 60LX, etc) with 18,000 rpm and higher performance.... you WILL foam the fuel using a regular tank.

Also of consideration......
A standard tank holds approximately 75 %-80% usable fuel. That last 20% is just in there to take up space - it is down below the effective safe clunk pick-up position. So a 6oz capacity tank only gives you 4oz of flight time. Beyond that, is the foam/air/bubbles/sudden lean run waiting to destroy your engine.

A bubble/bladder type tank allows you to use 100% of the capacity, with the stable needle/mixture setting all the way to the last drop.
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Ed even installs the tanks backwards sometimes
Bob is not kidding.

Nice short shutoff wire, no tangle of tubing in the engine compartment, tank cannot move forward and kink the lines.

Lots of advantages.

Ed S
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Ed, Still pushing that backwards stuff

I still prefer the front pinch, but its just personal preference. You'd have a tough time running things backwards in a polecat or loki, just not much room for the lines to double back on the tank.
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Old 06-22-2007, 11:11 AM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Ed, Still pushing that backwards stuff
Not any more. It was convenient at the time. I now place my tanks right on the Balance point. No need for them to be backwards.

Ed S
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Old 06-22-2007, 11:53 AM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?


ORIGINAL: Mike Connor

Here is another point of view. Bladder tanks are good but they cost and are not your only option. In my two Q-500 planes powered by Sport Jett engines I ran standard 6 oz slant tanks for many many flights with out problems. They will lean a little as the fuel is used but a good foam padded tank with out leaks (no bubbles) can work well. If you can afford the bladder tank then get it but there are other options.

This is not disputing daven or Ed Smith but another point of view was needed.
Although I can't understand how someone who can afford the Jett engine in the first place could argue that they cannot afford a $15 fuel tank and the run consistency it offers.. [sm=confused.gif]

Not to dispute that a well done clunk tank installation can't work, but the cost argument totally escapes me.

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Old 06-22-2007, 12:02 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Hey guys, if you read my first post you will see I agree with you but just wanted to argue another point of view. You have a young man that will have to work an extra two weeks for the US $50 bladder tank set up or he could go for a standard $4 tank. Until you get out of the Sport engine catagory I would be more concerned on how to set the needle. Anyway, at the time of my post it seemed the thread had tunnel vision so I changed the angle.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?


ORIGINAL: MJD



Although I can't understand how someone who can afford the Jett engine in the first place could argue that they cannot afford a $15 fuel tank and the run consistency it offers.. [sm=confused.gif]
Don't you have to buy the "tanker" and filler syringe? If you can use the $15 tank with out accessories you make a good point.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?


ORIGINAL: Mike Connor


ORIGINAL: MJD



Although I can't understand how someone who can afford the Jett engine in the first place could argue that they cannot afford a $15 fuel tank and the run consistency it offers.. [sm=confused.gif]
Don't you have to buy the "tanker" and filler syringe? If you can use the $15 tank with out accessories you make a good point.
Yeah you do, and I agree that represents an upfront investment that may deter some. It's $32.50, the tanks range from 15 to about 20 bucks. Still seems okay in comparison to a $275 engine and ARF of whatever value. I am a convert now, I started running Jett bubbleless tanks some months ago and "saw the light"..
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

ok well what i would need to add to the order would be:

Bubble-Jett Tanker - 32$
and the tank itself (not i ahve no clue what size yet id like to know if i can fit an 8oz in there) so say another 18$

so now im at 50$ USD for the fueling system is there anythign else needed?
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?


ORIGINAL: Flying freak

ok well what i would need to add to the order would be:

Bubble-Jett Tanker - 32$
and the tank itself (not i ahve no clue what size yet id like to know if i can fit an 8oz in there) so say another 18$

so now im at 50$ USD for the fueling system is there anythign else needed?
No, that's it, unless you want a fuel filter. The filler is basically a 12 ounce syringe.. you partially fill it with fuel, connect it to the tank, then pull back on it in the vertical position to draw out any remaining air in the tank. Then, wqhen you've sucked out all the air you depress the plunger again to dispense fuel into the tank. The air is now on top of the fuel so you stop before all the fuel is out. You may need to repeat with the larger tank sizes.

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Old 06-22-2007, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

Should i get one of those fuel shut off thigns that the heli guys use for fuelgin so that when the plane is istting there at the field with the tank full it doesnt pull air into the tank or anyhting else like that....
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:54 PM
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ORIGINAL: Flying freak

Should i get one of those fuel shut off thigns that the heli guys use for fuelgin so that when the plane is istting there at the field with the tank full it doesnt pull air into the tank or anyhting else like that....
I don't see why it would do that, I wouldn't bother or spend money on one. If you needed to just pop a hemostat on the fuel line. If you are not flying right after fueling, disconnect the filler and plug the line until you are ready to start. Don't force fuel into the tank beyond the point where it is full, or you will build up pressure and when you disconnect the filler it will spew a bit of fuel. It might dribble a bit anyway, in which case let it bleed down to zero pressure before connecting to your carb.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

where can i go about getting one of the hemostat clamps?
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:23 PM
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Default RE: Bladder tank or not?

For real cheepo a clothes peg will work or a piece of ply with a vee cut in it. Or as MJD says let it bleed out any pressure and then connect to the carb. Fuel cannot dribble out because air cannot get in.

Ed S
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