New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
03-07-2003, 02:01 PM
#26
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New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
The Maggers has a covering issue on some at the mo, wait a while, Still a FANTASTIC ARTF for the price and flys soo damn good, but, its jet looking, some people just want the simplicity and flying character of a delta.
Has any one put a engine on just a Magnum wing??? it's light as hell. Now.. if the Whip was all CF skin, hollow winged ( no foam ), lighter than helium, more effort for engine and tank faring, then 400 would be a very fair price
Has any one put a engine on just a Magnum wing??? it's light as hell. Now.. if the Whip was all CF skin, hollow winged ( no foam ), lighter than helium, more effort for engine and tank faring, then 400 would be a very fair price
03-07-2003, 02:06 PM
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perhaps..
Perhaps the new pricing policy by ACM is targeting the jet guys who want a 'cheap' beater when they leave their turbines on the ground... Sounds like they are pushing that way with all the mention of carbon and other higher tech materials.
I personally though $199 was way too high for a simple delta, a DDust was much more reasonable. And now twice that? Unfinished? I think they'll get the message loud and clear when the sales fall through the floor with a loud crash....
phil in austin
P.S. For $399 you could buy a complete professional foam cutting setup, do your own wing design, and enough materials to build out 5 imitation 'lashes, and have money left over for beer while you're building...
I personally though $199 was way too high for a simple delta, a DDust was much more reasonable. And now twice that? Unfinished? I think they'll get the message loud and clear when the sales fall through the floor with a loud crash....
phil in austin
P.S. For $399 you could buy a complete professional foam cutting setup, do your own wing design, and enough materials to build out 5 imitation 'lashes, and have money left over for beer while you're building...
03-07-2003, 04:46 PM
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New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
Maybe
the jet guys seem to be very much like the car racers, the hint of Carbon Fibre and they go all starry eyed, and the anodized stuff!!!!, like cats with catnip. very much one upmanship driven, at least thats the impression given off. The far more expensive Factory and Team spec cars arnt much better and only a fraction lighter, but they are much bluer and more sexy CF bits added. few areas of RC are so vain they have anodized locknut's in various colours. My car has no CF, no blue bits, and a heat sink i hacked from a PC processor heat sink and it's won the last 4 seasons hehehehehe
the jet guys seem to be very much like the car racers, the hint of Carbon Fibre and they go all starry eyed, and the anodized stuff!!!!, like cats with catnip. very much one upmanship driven, at least thats the impression given off. The far more expensive Factory and Team spec cars arnt much better and only a fraction lighter, but they are much bluer and more sexy CF bits added. few areas of RC are so vain they have anodized locknut's in various colours. My car has no CF, no blue bits, and a heat sink i hacked from a PC processor heat sink and it's won the last 4 seasons
hehehehehe
03-07-2003, 05:01 PM
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Whiplash Pricing
Now I really feel fortunate for finding a very slightly damaged Whiplash right here on RCU for $100 shipped.
A couple small very easily repairable holes in the bottom, and minor hangar rash that I can touch up before I paint.
I'm still amazed at how heavy this thing is, it is completely overbuilt. I would suggest they take a look at how the racing guys are making composite structures which are strong, light, and just as fast.
A couple small very easily repairable holes in the bottom, and minor hangar rash that I can touch up before I paint.
I'm still amazed at how heavy this thing is, it is completely overbuilt. I would suggest they take a look at how the racing guys are making composite structures which are strong, light, and just as fast.
03-07-2003, 05:36 PM
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New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
wasnt this one was it? 
this explains the weight, look at all that blue foam
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...2&pagenumber=1]
this explains the weight, look at all that blue foam
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...2&pagenumber=1]
03-07-2003, 06:47 PM
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Re: covering
Originally posted by jlong34016
How did we get off the topic? Oh yes, ChuckAuger said i didn't know how to cover a plane
How did we get off the topic? Oh yes, ChuckAuger said i didn't know how to cover a plane
These are not "just airplanes".
Just my 40,000 cents.
03-07-2003, 08:14 PM
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Re: perhaps..
Originally posted by phuffstatler
Perhaps the new pricing policy by ACM is targeting the jet guys who want a 'cheap' beater when they leave their turbines on the ground... Sounds like they are pushing that way with all the mention of carbon and other higher tech materials.
I personally though $199 was way too high for a simple delta, a DDust was much more reasonable. And now twice that? Unfinished? I think they'll get the message loud and clear when the sales fall through the floor with a loud crash....
phil in austin
Perhaps the new pricing policy by ACM is targeting the jet guys who want a 'cheap' beater when they leave their turbines on the ground... Sounds like they are pushing that way with all the mention of carbon and other higher tech materials.
I personally though $199 was way too high for a simple delta, a DDust was much more reasonable. And now twice that? Unfinished? I think they'll get the message loud and clear when the sales fall through the floor with a loud crash....
phil in austin
They had a succesful design on the first one. Now they decided to use the name the plane has made for itself and bring out a new version at a ridiculous price... betting on the fact that there are people out there that will actually buy anything if it's expensive enough! It is like caviar... people here are paying big bucks for a spoonfull of the stuff, just because it is expensive, and at the same time poor suckers in the ex-soviet union republics are eating the stuff by the jar because they have nothing else...
Close to 600 bucks for a painted delta... COME ON!! (pushrods and tank included... really really lol)
Now all you have to do is install a 300$ engine (I'm referring to mister Jett's products) and a couple of 100$ servos and you've got yourself a 1100$ "beater"...
If I wanted speed that bad I'd spend my hard earned cash in a more useful way...
Take a good look at it... you cannot justify 400$ for this:
03-07-2003, 08:19 PM
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wealth of knowledge
Thanks for your insightful comments Chuck . They are of great value as usual.
The dust came into discussion as a comparison/alternative to the whiplash. The value of anything is relative to the other options available. In my opinion 400 dollars for a state of the art airplane is not unreasonable compared to 150 for an arf DD which is basically a kite. True the old dust was a steal at 200 dollars. Thats why i stole two. But if the new whiplash is as light as a dust it is well worth it to me and i bet many others too.
What is going to be interesting is the price of the Backlash.
The dust came into discussion as a comparison/alternative to the whiplash. The value of anything is relative to the other options available. In my opinion 400 dollars for a state of the art airplane is not unreasonable compared to 150 for an arf DD which is basically a kite. True the old dust was a steal at 200 dollars. Thats why i stole two. But if the new whiplash is as light as a dust it is well worth it to me and i bet many others too.
What is going to be interesting is the price of the Backlash.
03-07-2003, 08:33 PM
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New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
Well, this is America, after all. There will always be folks willing to plunk down enough cash for what they want.
Me, I want financial solvency first...
There are several alternatives to the Whiplash, I'm thinking. Not just the 'kite' of the Ddust, but also several other speed kits that vary in price and quality. You get what you pay for, in most cases.
Heck, for the price of a built-to-the-hilt Whiplash, with the go-fast engines, servos, etc. ($1100) or so someone said, you are easily into the really nice used ducted fan planes, (used Viper anyone?) or even the new but smaller fans that can go all sorts of fast, and fly well to boot. Heck, even the smallest turbines are getting down into this area now, aren't they?
I thought the whole idea behind the Whiplash and others of its ilk was 'cheap speed'. I just don't see that as being true anymore... At least not at $400 for the bare airframe. $400 will get a Patriot into the air, complete with radio, and a decent engine (though not a super speed engine), or very close to it. It's whatever the customer wants, I guess.
phil in austin
phil
Me, I want financial solvency first...
There are several alternatives to the Whiplash, I'm thinking. Not just the 'kite' of the Ddust, but also several other speed kits that vary in price and quality. You get what you pay for, in most cases.
Heck, for the price of a built-to-the-hilt Whiplash, with the go-fast engines, servos, etc. ($1100) or so someone said, you are easily into the really nice used ducted fan planes, (used Viper anyone?) or even the new but smaller fans that can go all sorts of fast, and fly well to boot. Heck, even the smallest turbines are getting down into this area now, aren't they?
I thought the whole idea behind the Whiplash and others of its ilk was 'cheap speed'. I just don't see that as being true anymore... At least not at $400 for the bare airframe. $400 will get a Patriot into the air, complete with radio, and a decent engine (though not a super speed engine), or very close to it. It's whatever the customer wants, I guess.
phil in austin
phil
03-07-2003, 08:41 PM
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New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
im from canada ontario wherecan i buy the diamond duster are there any dealers here or are they in toledo this year plz help me
03-07-2003, 08:50 PM
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Very well put Phil.
I got the whiplash/diamond dust as my trainer for turbine jets. You need 50 flights of 150 mph to get turbine wavier. My turbine jet is a kangaroo which is a delta platform as well.
WRT ducted fans. Alot of people dont have access to a paved field. My grass field makes it almost impossible to get a fan airborne. Plus i am told the ducted fans engines are high maintance. That is why i am selling my only ducted fan plane that i never had the guts to try to get up on the grass runway. I would take a brand new dust over a used DF plane of equal value.
I keep the whiplash in the trunk and dont have to worry about the covering coming loose or getting damaged. It is maintance free and durable.
WRT ducted fans. Alot of people dont have access to a paved field. My grass field makes it almost impossible to get a fan airborne. Plus i am told the ducted fans engines are high maintance. That is why i am selling my only ducted fan plane that i never had the guts to try to get up on the grass runway. I would take a brand new dust over a used DF plane of equal value.
I keep the whiplash in the trunk and dont have to worry about the covering coming loose or getting damaged. It is maintance free and durable.
03-07-2003, 10:25 PM
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Dust ARF ?
I have a question if anyone knows. On the new Dust ARF coming out. How do they mount the servos and if they are sticking out like shown on planes like old one. Or if they are inside on wing laying down.
I was wondering how they went about making their ARF or if they left this part out for the customer to decide.
Anyone know?
I was wondering how they went about making their ARF or if they left this part out for the customer to decide.
Anyone know?
03-09-2003, 01:52 AM
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Whiplash Extreme
Geez I cant remember the last time I've been beat up so badly, listen friends and foes, heres the scoop straight out of the horses mouth.
Those of you that have trashed the "WHIPLASH" I have one simple question-- Why didnt you ask for a refund or call us to complain?
I think that all of you out there know my reputation for being up front, honest and straight shooting, (read my Karma) we would have refunded your money in a heartbeat or done everything possible to see that you were satisfied with your purchase.
And to those of you that are trashing the whiplash and have never owned one, please base your comments on personal experience, not hear say. I can assure you that there are more happy "whiplash owners than not..
And in regards to shipping costs Mr. Hammbone, UPS classifies this box as a 70 lbs package due to its dimensions, the typical cost per whiplash shipment was $37.00, thats why we ship USPS. We had shipped quite a few whiplashes at what our shipping computer stated was going to be around $13.00 and some change, UPS kindly advised us on a statement after we had already shipped over 30 airplanes that they had done an audit on the boxes and adjusted the price to an average of $37.00 per shipment, unbeknownst to us.. so needless to say, we cant ship this UPS..
For those of you that have come to our defense, thank you, its good that some of you realize that this is not a throw together box of sticks.
If any of you would see the process involved in producing just one of these airplanes, not to mention the many thousands of dollars required to just tool up for this process, you would wonder why we are selling this for so little..
We are not having these made in Taiwan, we arent just providing a box of sticks with a few carbon rods, and we arent giving anyone an inferior product.. has anyone priced Kevlar lately??
Where can you buy an airplane that can be ready to fly in 2-3 hours and is nearly indestructable and is as much fun as this plane can be??
I'm speaking for Dan and myself when I say this, but if you dont like the price, then by all means, "don't buy it".
I really dont have to justify the price, but frankly, no company can provide any product at a loss and hope to stay in business for any length of time, therefore we have developed a version of the whiplash that is top of the line, its the best that this design can be and it makes a profit..
We are sorry that some of you feel this is outrageous, and we certainly dont want anyone to speak badly about ACM or any of our products, but if any of you are interested in buying the tooling for the whiplash and would like to sell these airplanes for $200.00 each and would like to make a living at that price, then please contact me or Dan direct and we will work a deal for you to come and pick up this tooling and we'll even show you the process from start to finish..
We have worked extremely hard to develop a reputation of honesty, dependability and have strived to provide a superior and innovative product, we have however on very few occasions fell short on delivery, but rest assured that we would stop at nothing to insure a customers satisfaction, you people are the reason we are doing this and we need the support of our customers, so why would we shoot ourselves in the head as it was so cleverly put?
In summation, if you have a problem with your whiplash, ask for a refund, if you have a problem with the price, see if you can build it cheaper, if you have a problem with a company making a profit, move to Bagdhad, otherwise please understand that our intentions are not to gouge anyone, and we certainly dont want anyone to feel that this is an unjustifiable increase.
It saddens me to see such negative statements about this company and or its products, but I can also assure you that we get a hell of a lot more praise than we do negative statements.
We in reality dont ever want to see one single dissatisfied person using our products but unfortunately it happens..
So heres my solution, if any of you are unhappy with your whiplash, contact me direct and we will discuss this and see what can be done to remedy the circumstance, there is a solution to every problem, if you dont call and allow us the chance to rectify your dissatisfaction, then please stop with the posts.. the ball is now in your court!!
I dont know of anyone that can make that kind of effort to see that a person is happy and not have customer satisfaction as a top priority..
We plan on being here a long time, and if we wanted to produce a box of sticks and sell it for $75.00, then we could easily do that.
A box of sticks and some carbon fiber rods would cost us probably every bit of $10.00, if you do the cost comparison, thats a real profit.. but thats not what we sell and its not what we do, there is no other airplane out there that is even close to a whiplash in the process used to build this, so you pay for what you get..
I hope all of you can understand why we did what we did, and if you dont, then we are sorry, but there you have it..
Please, if any of you wish to contact me concerning your purchase
I'm there 8-5 every single day.. please call at your convenience..
Thanks to all...
Those of you that have trashed the "WHIPLASH" I have one simple question-- Why didnt you ask for a refund or call us to complain?
I think that all of you out there know my reputation for being up front, honest and straight shooting, (read my Karma) we would have refunded your money in a heartbeat or done everything possible to see that you were satisfied with your purchase.
And to those of you that are trashing the whiplash and have never owned one, please base your comments on personal experience, not hear say. I can assure you that there are more happy "whiplash owners than not..
And in regards to shipping costs Mr. Hammbone, UPS classifies this box as a 70 lbs package due to its dimensions, the typical cost per whiplash shipment was $37.00, thats why we ship USPS. We had shipped quite a few whiplashes at what our shipping computer stated was going to be around $13.00 and some change, UPS kindly advised us on a statement after we had already shipped over 30 airplanes that they had done an audit on the boxes and adjusted the price to an average of $37.00 per shipment, unbeknownst to us.. so needless to say, we cant ship this UPS..
For those of you that have come to our defense, thank you, its good that some of you realize that this is not a throw together box of sticks.
If any of you would see the process involved in producing just one of these airplanes, not to mention the many thousands of dollars required to just tool up for this process, you would wonder why we are selling this for so little..
We are not having these made in Taiwan, we arent just providing a box of sticks with a few carbon rods, and we arent giving anyone an inferior product.. has anyone priced Kevlar lately??
Where can you buy an airplane that can be ready to fly in 2-3 hours and is nearly indestructable and is as much fun as this plane can be??
I'm speaking for Dan and myself when I say this, but if you dont like the price, then by all means, "don't buy it".
I really dont have to justify the price, but frankly, no company can provide any product at a loss and hope to stay in business for any length of time, therefore we have developed a version of the whiplash that is top of the line, its the best that this design can be and it makes a profit..
We are sorry that some of you feel this is outrageous, and we certainly dont want anyone to speak badly about ACM or any of our products, but if any of you are interested in buying the tooling for the whiplash and would like to sell these airplanes for $200.00 each and would like to make a living at that price, then please contact me or Dan direct and we will work a deal for you to come and pick up this tooling and we'll even show you the process from start to finish..
We have worked extremely hard to develop a reputation of honesty, dependability and have strived to provide a superior and innovative product, we have however on very few occasions fell short on delivery, but rest assured that we would stop at nothing to insure a customers satisfaction, you people are the reason we are doing this and we need the support of our customers, so why would we shoot ourselves in the head as it was so cleverly put?
In summation, if you have a problem with your whiplash, ask for a refund, if you have a problem with the price, see if you can build it cheaper, if you have a problem with a company making a profit, move to Bagdhad, otherwise please understand that our intentions are not to gouge anyone, and we certainly dont want anyone to feel that this is an unjustifiable increase.
It saddens me to see such negative statements about this company and or its products, but I can also assure you that we get a hell of a lot more praise than we do negative statements.
We in reality dont ever want to see one single dissatisfied person using our products but unfortunately it happens..
So heres my solution, if any of you are unhappy with your whiplash, contact me direct and we will discuss this and see what can be done to remedy the circumstance, there is a solution to every problem, if you dont call and allow us the chance to rectify your dissatisfaction, then please stop with the posts.. the ball is now in your court!!
I dont know of anyone that can make that kind of effort to see that a person is happy and not have customer satisfaction as a top priority..
We plan on being here a long time, and if we wanted to produce a box of sticks and sell it for $75.00, then we could easily do that.
A box of sticks and some carbon fiber rods would cost us probably every bit of $10.00, if you do the cost comparison, thats a real profit.. but thats not what we sell and its not what we do, there is no other airplane out there that is even close to a whiplash in the process used to build this, so you pay for what you get..
I hope all of you can understand why we did what we did, and if you dont, then we are sorry, but there you have it..
Please, if any of you wish to contact me concerning your purchase
I'm there 8-5 every single day.. please call at your convenience..
Thanks to all...
03-09-2003, 02:49 AM
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whiplash
Now that I'm good and pissed, lets do some simple math boys and girls.
I dont hear a single one of you complaining about paying 75 plus dollars for a bunch of balsa, ply and c/f rods worth about $10.00..
When you buy an ARF from a big retailer, lets say the cost is $399.00, do you really think you have $399.00 worth of covering, balsa, ply and perhaps hardware and the labor for a person sitting at a table in Ding Dang Dong China to hot glue and CA a plane together??
When you buy one of these ARFs are you buying an American made product?
It takes 2 days to build a Whiplash Extreme, the price of Rohacell, Kevlar, carbon fiber, epoxy primer, glass cloth, resin, urethane, cabasill, and ply is a hell of of a lot more than a bunch of balsa.
Then, you have to lay up the two mold halves, put the molds in vacuum bags, pull a vacuum on this overnight, then remove the molds the next day, lay up the framing, install the molded urethane parts, join the 2 halves, let that sit overnight, the next day seperate the molds, take the plane out, wash off the PVA, trim the airplane, cut the elevons, pack the bag with hardware, cut a hatch plate, fold the shipping boxes, that incidently cost $17.00 each, enclose the whiplash in a special insert, place the cardboard spacer blocks inside, enclose the literature, tape the box shut, make an address label, BRING it to the post office, ship it and pray it doesnt get damaged, because then your really screwed chasing a claim at the post office, so then if it does get damaged, you have to go thru this whole process again to make sure the customer gets a replacement without having to wait for the claim to be paid, and then you bill the customer $199.95 plus shipping.
Now I ask you, would any of you do this for 200 bucks???
All of these posts second guessing why we did this is so far off base its ridiculous, JLONG is seemingly the only one that has come close to getting this right.
We have never dogged the competiton, but if you do the math, one of the popular planes out there has about a 700% mark up, why arent you guys complaining about that???
And Mr. Phillbaby, you seem to be the foremost authority on the whiplash, have you ever owned or even flown one? You rant and rave about the magnum and DD and so on and so forth, and do absolutely nothing but dog the Whiplash, why is that?
And a few other folks have made some really ugly statements, if you were so damn dissatisfied, why havent any of you called us to complain?? I havent had a single phone call or e mail regarding your absolutely horrible experience with our products, why is that? and why have you used a public forum to express your grievances without ACM ever getting the opportunity to make this right??
I can assure you if I buy something and I think its crap, someone will certainly get a call from me..
Come on guys, this is supposed to be an enjoyable "hobby", but it never fails, it always seems to turn into a bashing party or escalates into something really ugly...
Our intentions were to offer the modeler a very unique airplane that allowed the modeler to spend less time building and more time flying, we wanted to offer an almost indestructable airplane that was still light, agile and a real treat to fly, we have accomplished just that, there is no other airplane out there in this class that can take the impact the whiplash can, what is that worth? what is saving you numerous hours of building time worth? and what is the time, effort, development costs, materials, advertising, packaging and uniqueness of this custom hand built aircarft worth?? $399.95
:stupid:
I dont hear a single one of you complaining about paying 75 plus dollars for a bunch of balsa, ply and c/f rods worth about $10.00..
When you buy an ARF from a big retailer, lets say the cost is $399.00, do you really think you have $399.00 worth of covering, balsa, ply and perhaps hardware and the labor for a person sitting at a table in Ding Dang Dong China to hot glue and CA a plane together??
When you buy one of these ARFs are you buying an American made product?
It takes 2 days to build a Whiplash Extreme, the price of Rohacell, Kevlar, carbon fiber, epoxy primer, glass cloth, resin, urethane, cabasill, and ply is a hell of of a lot more than a bunch of balsa.
Then, you have to lay up the two mold halves, put the molds in vacuum bags, pull a vacuum on this overnight, then remove the molds the next day, lay up the framing, install the molded urethane parts, join the 2 halves, let that sit overnight, the next day seperate the molds, take the plane out, wash off the PVA, trim the airplane, cut the elevons, pack the bag with hardware, cut a hatch plate, fold the shipping boxes, that incidently cost $17.00 each, enclose the whiplash in a special insert, place the cardboard spacer blocks inside, enclose the literature, tape the box shut, make an address label, BRING it to the post office, ship it and pray it doesnt get damaged, because then your really screwed chasing a claim at the post office, so then if it does get damaged, you have to go thru this whole process again to make sure the customer gets a replacement without having to wait for the claim to be paid, and then you bill the customer $199.95 plus shipping.
Now I ask you, would any of you do this for 200 bucks???
All of these posts second guessing why we did this is so far off base its ridiculous, JLONG is seemingly the only one that has come close to getting this right.
We have never dogged the competiton, but if you do the math, one of the popular planes out there has about a 700% mark up, why arent you guys complaining about that???
And Mr. Phillbaby, you seem to be the foremost authority on the whiplash, have you ever owned or even flown one? You rant and rave about the magnum and DD and so on and so forth, and do absolutely nothing but dog the Whiplash, why is that?
And a few other folks have made some really ugly statements, if you were so damn dissatisfied, why havent any of you called us to complain?? I havent had a single phone call or e mail regarding your absolutely horrible experience with our products, why is that? and why have you used a public forum to express your grievances without ACM ever getting the opportunity to make this right??
I can assure you if I buy something and I think its crap, someone will certainly get a call from me..
Come on guys, this is supposed to be an enjoyable "hobby", but it never fails, it always seems to turn into a bashing party or escalates into something really ugly...
Our intentions were to offer the modeler a very unique airplane that allowed the modeler to spend less time building and more time flying, we wanted to offer an almost indestructable airplane that was still light, agile and a real treat to fly, we have accomplished just that, there is no other airplane out there in this class that can take the impact the whiplash can, what is that worth? what is saving you numerous hours of building time worth? and what is the time, effort, development costs, materials, advertising, packaging and uniqueness of this custom hand built aircarft worth?? $399.95
:stupid:
03-09-2003, 02:58 AM
#42
New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
This thread cracks me up. Does anybody here have the melons to admit he paid $400 for this thing. Nobody has mentioned the total cost of this piece
$400 for the plane
$150ish for a flightpack
$300for a decent engine
$50 misc junk
----------------------------
$900! If you see this combo at your field, yo may want to look around to see if Foghorn Leghorn is flying it.
$400 for the plane
$150ish for a flightpack
$300for a decent engine
$50 misc junk
----------------------------
$900! If you see this combo at your field, yo may want to look around to see if Foghorn Leghorn is flying it.
03-09-2003, 03:16 AM
#43
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I did
I believe i stated i have two. One for 200.00 and a second one for 400.00. I am selling the 200.00 plane so i can get the new model (at least thats the story i told the wife). It will not be airbrushed. 600.00 is too much. Speed costs money, at least to do it safely. At 200+mph i think its irresponsible to fly a kite in a public place (DD). My field is always busy and has a park and trail right next to it. I spare no expense with these extreme speed planes. If you want to go economy then don't do it at 200mph unless you have a remote site. This is why i have a problem with Chuck taunting "guess what i even got monocote on it". Implying to me that he thinks he is getting away with something he shouldn't. And just because it works doesn't make it right.
So cyclic its not the guy who lays out the cash you want to avoid, its the guy who doesn't you should be leery of.
So cyclic its not the guy who lays out the cash you want to avoid, its the guy who doesn't you should be leery of.
03-09-2003, 03:42 AM
#44
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Well you got that wrong..
I wasn't implying I was getting away with something...it's just that I have built enough planes to know what will work. Monokote works.
What is wrong with that??
I've also built kits that say "connect the ailerons with 2-56 rods, supplied" and I used 4-40. I didn't follow the instructions, did I.
Same difference, pal.
My Whiplash has 8411's, aluminum servo arms, carbon fiber pushrods, and an engine turning 3K more static on the same prop as a guy who was ooh'd and awww'd by all for going 207.
Whipeee.
Fact is my Monokoted Diamond Dust flew for over a year with an OS 46 VRDF on it and never blew up, crashed in the crowd, none of that.
That's what we call a proof test. Build something and test it until it fails. It didn't fail, sorry. That's proof.
If I had built a plane that was so wrinkled every time I took it out, while everybody else was flying their identical plane, I would seriously look at my building skills. Doesn't sound like you are a very safe builder to me.
As for taunting?? Neer na neer na neer neer!! How's that??
Just because you spend a lot of money doesn't actually mean jack to me.
Now go impress somebody who wants to be impressed.
What is wrong with that??
I've also built kits that say "connect the ailerons with 2-56 rods, supplied" and I used 4-40. I didn't follow the instructions, did I.
Same difference, pal.
My Whiplash has 8411's, aluminum servo arms, carbon fiber pushrods, and an engine turning 3K more static on the same prop as a guy who was ooh'd and awww'd by all for going 207.
Whipeee.
Fact is my Monokoted Diamond Dust flew for over a year with an OS 46 VRDF on it and never blew up, crashed in the crowd, none of that.
That's what we call a proof test. Build something and test it until it fails. It didn't fail, sorry. That's proof.
If I had built a plane that was so wrinkled every time I took it out, while everybody else was flying their identical plane, I would seriously look at my building skills. Doesn't sound like you are a very safe builder to me.
As for taunting?? Neer na neer na neer neer!! How's that??
Just because you spend a lot of money doesn't actually mean jack to me.
Now go impress somebody who wants to be impressed.
03-09-2003, 04:04 AM
#45
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Oh and get this..it was covered in monocote.
Well a pretty lame explaination of what you meant by the above statement.
And to compare exceeding reccommended material strength to skimping on reccommended building materials and concluding.."same difference pal." you give me a break. Are you an idiot or do you think everyone else is? Let me answer that for you with a typical Chuck remark.. "No..I thing you are an idiot." Well Chuck I dont care what you think. You just keep taking your Thorazine, Prozac, Lithium and whatever else you need.
Just because you get away with something for years..doesnt make it OK. Sooner or later its going to catch up to you, or one of your spectators.
And to compare exceeding reccommended material strength to skimping on reccommended building materials and concluding.."same difference pal." you give me a break. Are you an idiot or do you think everyone else is? Let me answer that for you with a typical Chuck remark.. "No..I thing you are an idiot." Well Chuck I dont care what you think. You just keep taking your Thorazine, Prozac, Lithium and whatever else you need.
Just because you get away with something for years..doesnt make it OK. Sooner or later its going to catch up to you, or one of your spectators.
03-09-2003, 04:19 AM
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Well excuse me..
I didn't realize you had done testing head to head with Monokote vs Ultracoat. I didn't realize you had empirical data to say I was using an inferior product.
Let's see your test results, pal.
So who's to say I was skimping, pal??
Pretty lame data you be a spouting, pal.
And I never said you were an idiot..you like to put words in my mouth. All I said was I used Monokote, you didn't. My plane flew great, yours needs constant re-shrinking. Draw your own conclusions.
Now go build an ARF, you are boring me.
Let's see your test results, pal.
So who's to say I was skimping, pal??
Pretty lame data you be a spouting, pal.
And I never said you were an idiot..you like to put words in my mouth. All I said was I used Monokote, you didn't. My plane flew great, yours needs constant re-shrinking. Draw your own conclusions.
Now go build an ARF, you are boring me.
03-09-2003, 04:27 AM
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Re: Well excuse me..
"Now go build an ARF, you are boring me. "
Dont need to go build an ARF. I get whiplashes that are prebuilt. And from the description of your crashed DD, if you had a whiplash then you would still have a whiplash now. Now go back in your hole and play with your sticks but from now on please leave the window open when you use the glue. You cant afford to lose much more...
Dont need to go build an ARF. I get whiplashes that are prebuilt. And from the description of your crashed DD, if you had a whiplash then you would still have a whiplash now. Now go back in your hole and play with your sticks but from now on please leave the window open when you use the glue. You cant afford to lose much more...
03-09-2003, 04:33 AM
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Re: whiplash
Originally posted by BAGOSTIX
Now that I'm good and pissed, lets do some simple math boys and girls.
I dont hear a single one of you complaining about paying 75 plus dollars for a bunch of balsa, ply and c/f rods worth about $10.00..
When you buy an ARF from a big retailer, lets say the cost is $399.00, do you really think you have $399.00 worth of covering, balsa, ply and perhaps hardware and the labor for a person sitting at a table in Ding Dang Dong China to hot glue and CA a plane together??
When you buy one of these ARFs are you buying an American made product?
It takes 2 days to build a Whiplash Extreme, the price of Rohacell, Kevlar, carbon fiber, epoxy primer, glass cloth, resin, urethane, cabasill, and ply is a hell of of a lot more than a bunch of balsa.
Then, you have to lay up the two mold halves, put the molds in vacuum bags, pull a vacuum on this overnight, then remove the molds the next day, lay up the framing, install the molded urethane parts, join the 2 halves, let that sit overnight, the next day seperate the molds, take the plane out, wash off the PVA, trim the airplane, cut the elevons, pack the bag with hardware, cut a hatch plate, fold the shipping boxes, that incidently cost $17.00 each, enclose the whiplash in a special insert, place the cardboard spacer blocks inside, enclose the literature, tape the box shut, make an address label, BRING it to the post office, ship it and pray it doesnt get damaged, because then your really screwed chasing a claim at the post office, so then if it does get damaged, you have to go thru this whole process again to make sure the customer gets a replacement without having to wait for the claim to be paid, and then you bill the customer $199.95 plus shipping.
Now I ask you, would any of you do this for 200 bucks???
All of these posts second guessing why we did this is so far off base its ridiculous, JLONG is seemingly the only one that has come close to getting this right.
We have never dogged the competiton, but if you do the math, one of the popular planes out there has about a 700% mark up, why arent you guys complaining about that???
And Mr. Phillbaby, you seem to be the foremost authority on the whiplash, have you ever owned or even flown one? You rant and rave about the magnum and DD and so on and so forth, and do absolutely nothing but dog the Whiplash, why is that?
And a few other folks have made some really ugly statements, if you were so damn dissatisfied, why havent any of you called us to complain?? I havent had a single phone call or e mail regarding your absolutely horrible experience with our products, why is that? and why have you used a public forum to express your grievances without ACM ever getting the opportunity to make this right??
I can assure you if I buy something and I think its crap, someone will certainly get a call from me..
Come on guys, this is supposed to be an enjoyable "hobby", but it never fails, it always seems to turn into a bashing party or escalates into something really ugly...
Our intentions were to offer the modeler a very unique airplane that allowed the modeler to spend less time building and more time flying, we wanted to offer an almost indestructable airplane that was still light, agile and a real treat to fly, we have accomplished just that, there is no other airplane out there in this class that can take the impact the whiplash can, what is that worth? what is saving you numerous hours of building time worth? and what is the time, effort, development costs, materials, advertising, packaging and uniqueness of this custom hand built aircarft worth?? $399.95
:stupid:
Now that I'm good and pissed, lets do some simple math boys and girls.
I dont hear a single one of you complaining about paying 75 plus dollars for a bunch of balsa, ply and c/f rods worth about $10.00..
When you buy an ARF from a big retailer, lets say the cost is $399.00, do you really think you have $399.00 worth of covering, balsa, ply and perhaps hardware and the labor for a person sitting at a table in Ding Dang Dong China to hot glue and CA a plane together??
When you buy one of these ARFs are you buying an American made product?
It takes 2 days to build a Whiplash Extreme, the price of Rohacell, Kevlar, carbon fiber, epoxy primer, glass cloth, resin, urethane, cabasill, and ply is a hell of of a lot more than a bunch of balsa.
Then, you have to lay up the two mold halves, put the molds in vacuum bags, pull a vacuum on this overnight, then remove the molds the next day, lay up the framing, install the molded urethane parts, join the 2 halves, let that sit overnight, the next day seperate the molds, take the plane out, wash off the PVA, trim the airplane, cut the elevons, pack the bag with hardware, cut a hatch plate, fold the shipping boxes, that incidently cost $17.00 each, enclose the whiplash in a special insert, place the cardboard spacer blocks inside, enclose the literature, tape the box shut, make an address label, BRING it to the post office, ship it and pray it doesnt get damaged, because then your really screwed chasing a claim at the post office, so then if it does get damaged, you have to go thru this whole process again to make sure the customer gets a replacement without having to wait for the claim to be paid, and then you bill the customer $199.95 plus shipping.
Now I ask you, would any of you do this for 200 bucks???
All of these posts second guessing why we did this is so far off base its ridiculous, JLONG is seemingly the only one that has come close to getting this right.
We have never dogged the competiton, but if you do the math, one of the popular planes out there has about a 700% mark up, why arent you guys complaining about that???
And Mr. Phillbaby, you seem to be the foremost authority on the whiplash, have you ever owned or even flown one? You rant and rave about the magnum and DD and so on and so forth, and do absolutely nothing but dog the Whiplash, why is that?
And a few other folks have made some really ugly statements, if you were so damn dissatisfied, why havent any of you called us to complain?? I havent had a single phone call or e mail regarding your absolutely horrible experience with our products, why is that? and why have you used a public forum to express your grievances without ACM ever getting the opportunity to make this right??
I can assure you if I buy something and I think its crap, someone will certainly get a call from me..
Come on guys, this is supposed to be an enjoyable "hobby", but it never fails, it always seems to turn into a bashing party or escalates into something really ugly...
Our intentions were to offer the modeler a very unique airplane that allowed the modeler to spend less time building and more time flying, we wanted to offer an almost indestructable airplane that was still light, agile and a real treat to fly, we have accomplished just that, there is no other airplane out there in this class that can take the impact the whiplash can, what is that worth? what is saving you numerous hours of building time worth? and what is the time, effort, development costs, materials, advertising, packaging and uniqueness of this custom hand built aircarft worth?? $399.95
:stupid:
Rick,
I understand your point . However doubling the price for a second generation whiplash is not the way to make good business. I was waiting patiently for the new whiplash and
I was ready to pay a $50-70 price increase but now I am totally disgusted by the new price tag of $400.00 without any paint on it!!. Come on. Sure the airfarme is tough but does it really matter? I am not convinced the plane can survive to a crash at 140+ MPH.
I am not here to bash ACM. ACM product are top quality but I have some difficulty to understand your new business idea. I really want to get my whiplash but now i feel cheated and screwed. Why don't you back the price to $299.00 with a basic paint on that thing ?
Please...
Serge
03-09-2003, 04:44 AM
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Can't afford to lose much more..
First thing I can agree with you.
Then I would be on the same level as you.
I didn't realize you could get a Whiplash with the engine, radio, fuel system, and pipe already installed. That would be prebuilt.
Mine was an ARF..I had to install all that myself.
You can take all the pot shots at me you want..I'm not the one complaining about planes others are enjoying with great sucess.
You are.
So call me a medicated idiot at every chance you get, fine by me. All I have to do is consider the source...a source not worth consideration..
And BTW..seems like I recall a thread by you, way back when, ragging on the Whiplash guys. I recall Rick replying to you as Mr. Long about some gripe you had with the Whiplash or the company.
Ah yes...I knew my medicated mind was working just fine:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...hreadid=300806]
Then I would be on the same level as you.
I didn't realize you could get a Whiplash with the engine, radio, fuel system, and pipe already installed. That would be prebuilt.
Mine was an ARF..I had to install all that myself.
You can take all the pot shots at me you want..I'm not the one complaining about planes others are enjoying with great sucess.
You are.
So call me a medicated idiot at every chance you get, fine by me. All I have to do is consider the source...a source not worth consideration..
And BTW..seems like I recall a thread by you, way back when, ragging on the Whiplash guys. I recall Rick replying to you as Mr. Long about some gripe you had with the Whiplash or the company.
Ah yes...I knew my medicated mind was working just fine:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...hreadid=300806]
03-09-2003, 05:11 AM
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New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!!
Guys:
I have a whiplash & all I can say is it is awesome, rick makes a quality product for a reasonable price. I have seen the process they use to construct these planes, it is costly & a lot of work & I know a lot of money goes in to research & development of these planes. I for one will be getting a whiplash extreme in the near future, it is much stronger & lighter than the original & should be much faster. I personally am in this hobby for my own pleasure, I do not spend money to impress anyone but myself. I will get what I want out of this hobby as everyone should. Bashing a product that you know nothing about is not very cool & just the great customer service is worth a few extra bucks in my book. I want to go fast but I want a plane that can take a few bumps & bruises along the way & the whiplash fits the bill. If you don't want it or wont spend the money then "go fly a kite" but don't bash a company like ACM that is making our hobby better & faster. Keep em coming Rick, I think your products are great!!!!!
Gil
I have a whiplash & all I can say is it is awesome, rick makes a quality product for a reasonable price. I have seen the process they use to construct these planes, it is costly & a lot of work & I know a lot of money goes in to research & development of these planes. I for one will be getting a whiplash extreme in the near future, it is much stronger & lighter than the original & should be much faster. I personally am in this hobby for my own pleasure, I do not spend money to impress anyone but myself. I will get what I want out of this hobby as everyone should. Bashing a product that you know nothing about is not very cool & just the great customer service is worth a few extra bucks in my book. I want to go fast but I want a plane that can take a few bumps & bruises along the way & the whiplash fits the bill. If you don't want it or wont spend the money then "go fly a kite" but don't bash a company like ACM that is making our hobby better & faster. Keep em coming Rick, I think your products are great!!!!!
Gil