Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Viper...

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Old 07-08-2007, 02:18 PM
  #1  
Destiny-RCU
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Default Viper...

Well I just got home from a one flight day due to firewall failure. When I bought this plane a few months ago I inspected it and it seems they had fixed the old problems with glass inside and out including triangle stock, pretty beefy. Well with only a stock TT40Pro and 15 flights later it let loose in air hanging only by the bottom half. I noticed the plane started to fly weird so I killed the engine immediately and landed finding the engine pointing down about 10*.

The weird thing is, I couldn't see much epoxy on the wall it self. Almost as if they stuck in the wall then just glassed over it and it vibrated and worked away at the glass till it pulled apart. Anyway just as a pointer to anyone buying a new one. ITS NOT FIXED...
The good part to this is i'm going to recover the whole plane, cover the hinge gaps, and bolt a pipe on her....should look much better and add speed as well....Even thinking about making a cowl...Maybe.

If you buy one...Fix it first.

Russ
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:03 PM
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Glad ya got her down.....somewhat intact.
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Yeah that was the main thing I was happy about, got it back in one peice for repairs. I don't understand why GP doesn't address this. It's a real safety issue. What if this thing let loose setting the needle on the ground etc...Bad news. I picked up the stuff to repair on the way home...I'll glue it in good, Pin it, and glass over.

I took a better look at it tonight. There was NO expoxy holding the firewall in place. The glass covering was the only thing holding it in....[:'(]
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

I have had the same problem with my viper and a friends. My latest one I put a bunch of thin CA on the firewall joint then put tri stock in the tank compartment bottom and top. Then I epoxied the cover on.

Scott
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Old 07-08-2007, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

I think the whole problem is, is what they use for glue... I don't really know what it is, but it sure doesn't remind me of anything I would use.

=> Rip out the firewall, remove as much of the crap as you possibly can (surprisingly, this takes time) and use slow curing (12h-24h) epoxy to glue in a NEW firewall made out of proper plywood. Most slow curing epoxies can be heat treated, which will make them even stronger.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: Viper...

Here is a pic of the damage
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: Viper...

Time for a new skin, the junk from GP is worthless.
Sometimes I like when they break...."ehh while I have it apart, i'm gonna..."
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Old 07-09-2007, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Couple more pics of progress. Sealed hinges came out great.
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Old 07-09-2007, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Wouldn't have been easier to just buy a kit in the first place? []
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Old 07-09-2007, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Yeah it would have. I probably would have gone that rout if fixing this one would have been much worse. The covering peeled right off without even using the iron cause it's so loose so that only took about 45 mins. And the wall was already out so I cleaned it up and it's set now...Need to pin and glass.

I don't mind the work it's fun. Needs a little TLC.

It's a great flying plane. Only if the manufacturer would do their job...
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:12 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

While you have the covering off the fuse you should glass the tail area this is also a weak spot. The new wing covering and sealed hinges look good.

Scott
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:28 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Yeah that is on the list of things to do. I figured if I do all the tricks and replace the covering I might end up with a nice plane out of all this.
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: Viper...

Well, I can confirm the Lanier Predator II is no better in this department, my firewall also came loose last weekend. Unfortunately it was in the air and during a hard pylon turn that the engine and firewall departed the airplane entirely. With the CG suddenly decidedly tail-heavy and full elevator pulled, the airplane just did some fast knife-edge horizontal flips, lost all forward airspeed, and dropped like a stone, while the engine (TT Pro .40) sailed on into a neighboring field. Glad it was pointing in the direction it was when it happened. Surprisingly, the airplane is repairable, and the engine sustained no damage (it did take 45 minutes to find it in the tall grass though!).
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Now we have it figured out....These guys are designing these planes to survive the aftermath of the firewall coming loose. Not stay together...[:'(]

I'll tell ya what though. After cleaning it up and using some slow curing epoxy over night. Without pins, tri stock, or glass inside & out...I can't pull it loose today...

I removed the firewall completely for repair and the joints had NO glue. Not even the rubbery crap they use for the glassing and tri stock. The motor was pulling on the glass the whole time.
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Can someone please tell me how i can help this plane survive mine has not come flown yet but i do have a jett 50 on order for it so im going to need to strengthen this thing a bit...
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Do some searching. You can find threads about fixing a Viper up. They need some help to be Jett ready.

The firewall needs removed and installed properly (pin, tri stock, multiple layers of glass), Fuse @ the L.E. of V-tail needs strips of glass, wheels are junk, a Bladder tank is almost a must, Use Blue loc-tite on the wing bolts or buy Larger nylon bolts, Go over every joint you can get to with thin CA, Seal all hinge gaps...

If you don't have much building experience. Take it too a reputable builder and have them go over it for you. I highly recommend it...A Jett .50 on this thing could be very dangerous if all the right steps aren't taken. Good luck

Russ
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:50 AM
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Default RE: Viper...

Flying Freak,

I sent you 2 pm's with a huge amount of info in them on how to do the mods on a viper, you just have to read through it all & its all there...... Just in case this is a good start

www.nswpylon.org/Setting_Up_The_Viper.htm

Tony.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:25 AM
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Default RE: Viper...


ORIGINAL: crasharama

Flying Freak,

I sent you 2 pm's with a huge amount of info in them on how to do the mods on a viper, you just have to read through it all & its all there...... Just in case this is a good start

www.nswpylon.org/Setting_Up_The_Viper.htm

Tony.
I have not gotton your 2 pm's unless you reffering to the ones we had before concerning the fuel tank.

steven
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:13 AM
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Default RE: Viper...

Yep will resend through to ya a bit more.
Tony.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

The firewall popped off my Predator II as well on a not so perfect landing. What I found interesting is that it appeared that small pilot holes were drilled through the fuse into the firewall, then very small dowels (more like toothpicks) were inserted. Like other say - no glue appeared to be on the firewall.

My question is - after repairing with fiberglass cloth the firewall did well on the next landing, but the landing gear ripped off the fuse. Anybody have any advice on the best way to re-glue? The bottom of the airframe is very thin balsa - looks like not even quite 1/8" thick; so I'm thinking more glue is not necessarily better. There is not much ply in this bird!

The plane handles great in the air; so it seems its worth the time to beef it up.

Thanks

keywords lanier predator II landing gear
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Im sure some threads have gone over the landing gear issues with these planes. But Just looking at it quick. The landing gear ply mount is glued to the plywood sides of thefuse. Not the thin Balsa sheeting on the bottom of the fuse. I think if you use a new ply gear mount and cut it an 1" longer aft. Notch the plywood sides to fit in the gear mount. Sand flush, Glue inside tiangle stock the full length of the new ply gear mount....Maybe some 3/4 oz. glass on the bottom. Should even hold up to my landings

P.S. None of these things would probably break if they used real epoxy on it. Or even glued it at all to begin with.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Viper...

Well, I thought i'd show the finished product after the firewall tried to jump ship. I've gone over all the weak areas with glass, reinforced the firewall with mucho glass and actually used expoxy on the wall joints instead of the hot glue GP uses.
Plane seems to be much more healthy. Also added a little performance for the TT40. Should scoot nice.

Before & After
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