Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Phenom status ?

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Old 09-13-2007, 09:37 PM
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Barry_DVRC
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Default Phenom status ?


Hi Guys,
What was the final verdict in the Phenom? I found some posts and it's seems to have a minor issue with actually flying. Is that still the case or was it solved?

Thanks

Barry
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:43 PM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Isn't this the 3 pound delta that comes with an extra pound of ballast at no extra charge?
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:27 PM
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The Internet Killer
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Default RE: Phenom status ?


ORIGINAL: combatpigg

Isn't this the 3 pound delta that comes with an extra pound of ballast at no extra charge?

Wow!! Man, it must be amazing in a power dive.
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:04 PM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Rudeboy got his a few weeks ago but not even a peep from him about it. While 20 oz per sq ft wing loading is higher then what I would want there are a lot of planes flying well with a higher wing loading. I am wondering if we will ever figure this one out.
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:21 PM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

I must admit that I privately root for all ARFs to fail ......
I don't think you can directly compare delta wing loadings to conventional plane figures.....only delta to delta comparisons in models of this size range matter to me. The delta that I'm flying now weighs 50 ozs and I sure wouldn't want to see it weigh any more.
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:13 AM
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Mike Connor
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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

I must admit that I privately root for all ARFs to fail ......
I don't think you can directly compare delta wing loadings to conventional plane figures.....only delta to delta comparisons in models of this size range matter to me. The delta that I'm flying now weighs 50 ozs and I sure wouldn't want to see it weigh any more.
Most arfs do fail unless you rebuild them before flying. [X(]
Can we compare the Phenom to the Whip? Two boat anchors but one flew if you could find a servo strong enough to move the elevons.

I just finished another version of my delta with dual rudders and landing gear with a RTF weight of 45 oz.
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:50 AM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

45 ozs is a real nice weight for that size of bird, especially with the extra features. I'll never forget the grin I had for about a week after flying my first light weight RC delta, [a copy of a DD with a OS .32]. After years of floundering from one over weight design to another, it was awesome to finally have a hand launch delta that could take off and land so effortlessly. I suppose a real guru with cloth and resin could come up with a similar weight plane just as strong, if not stronger......but it would be quite a feat considering how much "air" is built into a conventional airframe.
In the meantime there sure hasn't been much news from the ARF delta proving grounds.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:06 AM
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ORIGINAL: Mike Connor

Can we compare the Phenom to the Whip? Two boat anchors but one flew if you could find a servo strong enough to move the elevons.
I've been staring at mine for two years and still have not tackled the last 10% of work needed to get it flying. The ailerons absolutely shocked me with their stiffness, even after epeated flexing by hand. The explanation was that it was a 200mph airplane.. my reply was yeah, so what - stiff hinges do nothing but rob servo torque which could otherwise be put to use countering aerodynamic loads. It is certainly a robust airframe and looks tres cool, and I plan to get it in the air this fall sporting either an SJ50, or a FIRE OPS 60/pipe combo. Dunno which, but I am currently distracted by other projects so we'll see.

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Old 09-14-2007, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Well, mine indeed came in a month and a half ago or so.

Kit looks good to me. Not perfect, but for that price, it's really OK.

I haven't actually weighed the bare airframe. It could be lighter, but it is not a brick (again, for the price, it's ok). IMHO the launching problem that someone reported about here is not weight related. If I remember correctly, that person had a Jett .60LX up front. That will provided more thrust than weight, so it has to lauch, even if it is straight up. It's a delta, so you can launch it completely stalled and it will still fly. And with those huge elevons control shouldn't be a problem either.

So far I've got the engine-tank installed. Prepared the wings for glueing on, which was more work than it should have been because of the generous use of glue when top and bottom halves were joined.
If I don't paint, I could have the plane ready in say 10 hours...


But... unfortunately I had a rather severe car accident a couple of weeks ago. Busted up my right ankle pretty bad (it took 2 hours of surgery and a fair amount of stainless steel to put it back together). And I broke a piece of my first thoracic vertebra (not so bad, since it wasn't displaced).

So I'm out for a couple of months. Perhaps in a few weeks, when I can actually sit on a chair again, I can continue...
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Sorry to hear about your wreck, RB! Salmonbug had the same thing a couple of years ago, too?
Your plane looks great the way that the engine is squeezed in there, it sure does look like the hardest work is done. Get well soon.

I agree about the "mystery problem", there is always a logical explanation why a plane is not flying. I have caught myself trying to fly a delta with junk in the radio program that I wasn't aware about, like un equal settings between channel 1&2. After scouring through the entire programming menu for all possible SNAFUs, I felt lucky that my negligence hadn't cost me more trouble.
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Old 09-14-2007, 01:17 PM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?


ORIGINAL: Rudeboy


So far I've got the engine-tank installed.

But... unfortunately I had a rather severe car accident a couple of weeks ago. Busted up my right ankle pretty bad (it took 2 hours of surgery and a fair amount of stainless steel to put it back together). And I broke a piece of my first thoracic vertebra (not so bad, since it wasn't displaced).

So I'm out for a couple of months. Perhaps in a few weeks, when I can actually sit on a chair again, I can continue...
What engine is in there? Maybe you can shed some light on the Phenom mystery but hopefully not because of having problems.

I attached a pic of my arm after a bicycle wreck a few years back. There were other broken bones and soft tissue trauma but this is the only one displaced. I would rather have a broken arm then leg but they both have their own set of issues. Try tying your shoes with one hand. Of course you don't need a shoe on a busted up ankle.
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Old 09-15-2007, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Razor's flies pretty nice on a modest power plant...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8g7qTKYiV0
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Old 09-15-2007, 04:46 PM
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Razor could fly a brick..........
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Old 09-15-2007, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?


So....

It would seem

Two don't fly
One does
And several have abandoned all hope and remain unfinished.

Not a great record for an extreme speed plane in an extreme speed forum.

It appears I should pass.

Barry
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Old 09-15-2007, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Actually it is 2 do not fly and 3 do that I heard of. The abandoned one above was a Whiplash, not a Phenom. I think Oakdale should help provide some answers.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?


ORIGINAL: Mike Connor
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Most arfs do fail unless you rebuild them before flying. [X(]

Shhhh! If this gets out, we won't have anybody here complaining.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:33 AM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?


ORIGINAL: Mike Connor


ORIGINAL: Rudeboy


So far I've got the engine-tank installed.

But... unfortunately I had a rather severe car accident a couple of weeks ago. Busted up my right ankle pretty bad (it took 2 hours of surgery and a fair amount of stainless steel to put it back together). And I broke a piece of my first thoracic vertebra (not so bad, since it wasn't displaced).

So I'm out for a couple of months. Perhaps in a few weeks, when I can actually sit on a chair again, I can continue...
What engine is in there? Maybe you can shed some light on the Phenom mystery but hopefully not because of having problems.

I attached a pic of my arm after a bicycle wreck a few years back. There were other broken bones and soft tissue trauma but this is the only one displaced. I would rather have a broken arm then leg but they both have their own set of issues. Try tying your shoes with one hand. Of course you don't need a shoe on a busted up ankle.

10 years ago, i had real bad whiplash. Lost all muscles in my back for about a week. It took a half hour to get out of bed (with help). Could sit up. I'd fall over like a 8month old baby. The process was to get me to sit up, get the muscles to agree on it all, then stand up, wait a while and then walk around.

After we got the routine down, still had one problem, every time I sat down, I had to start the process all over again. So I stood up or leaned against the wall most of the time. I was more work and tiring to get up than stand around against the wall for a couple hours
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Get better Rudeboy!

I have had 3 Whips and 1 Phenom, all 4 flew/fly great...No great skill by me, I build poorly and fly average- My OS-50SX and tower muffler have plenty of power for launch and sport-speed flying on the Phenom. I do not know why more folks have not had success- The prototype was flown with an OS-40FX as I recall.

I have flown my Whips with everything from an OS-46FX, K&B-48 (UT), YS-45, and Jett-50....None of which gave me any problems with launching, although I agree about the Elevons----WAY too binding. I bet 100 or the 133oz @ 6V from my Hitec-645MG's was used to simply MOVE the elevons

Has anybody tried a dolly to get their Phenom airborn for the first flight at least??? That is what I would do if it was necessary.

Soo much trash-talking about these models on here....drives me crazy. Not everyone needs a Super lightweight custom design and build KIT delta. Some folks want to buy something throw an engine on the front and go have fun-

Comabtpig and Mike Connors obviously have great building skills but you do not need to talk trash about these ARF's to make your ships seem cooler--- Different clientel I would say
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Old 09-16-2007, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Razor, first it doesn't take any great skill to build a framed up delta. All it takes for the most part is a ruler and a sharp knife. I don't see any real trash talking here, these are after all, just toys. I have seen my share of overweight deltas [Balsa USA monstrosities] and scratch built a few dogs in my day as well. They were an adventure to get airborne and to land.

There just aren't that many conditions that need to be met to get one of these planes safely in the air, but the batting average of some of the guys chiming in here [with the ARFs] isn't too good. Is that trash talk?

I think the difference between your success with launching them and someone who keeps stuffing his is all in the critical first second after release. By all rights, any plane this size with a 9x7 prop putting out 7 pounds of thrust should be able to take off vertical with ease.
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Old 09-16-2007, 04:25 PM
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I must say though that you're right about one thing, trash talking about ARF deltas makes my delta seem so much cooler. I don't know about Mikes' experience, but right after a good trash talking session, my deltas have ice pellets coming out the exhaust.
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:06 PM
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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

I must say though that you're right about one thing, trash talking about ARF deltas makes my delta seem so much cooler. I don't know about Mikes' experience, but right after a good trash talking session, my deltas have ice pellets coming out the exhaust.
I was wondering what that was coming out of my exhaust today.

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Old 09-16-2007, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: Phenom status ?

Is it time for the thick skin? I am not trying to offend anyone but I do have an oinion and often share it. I have no idea what is going on with the phenom and would really like to know. if it was my design haveing problems I would go 24/7 until I figured it out. As far as needing 100+ oz servos on a 40 size plane. Shame on the designer.
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Old 09-26-2007, 10:26 PM
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Hey Mike,


Where do you get the 100 oz in. servo torque from? I fly mine with Futaba 9303's. I think there about 65oz. in or so. I don't have any problems with mine at all. As for problems with the Phenom. I realize a couple guys were having problems, but I can't speak about them, since I didn't see them personally. I know there are several guys flying their's without any problems what so ever.
The Phenom is a fabulous airframe. Very fast and very easy to fly. I only have a .40 on mine, but I'm sure it would be a lot faster with a more powerful powerplant up front. I just can't imagine what the problems you are stating could be. It's a fully molded airframe, they're all the same, unlike a pile of sticks, covered with plastic, prone to warping, covering blowing off, along with the occasional rough landing that results in the entire airframe re-kitting itself. I like the fact that none of these drawbacks are present on the Phenom. Short of putting it straight into the ground, I think mine will be around for a long time.
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Old 09-26-2007, 10:38 PM
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Oh Yeah,

One more thing. When one of these airframes goes over 200 mph in a dive, it's a great idea to have all the torque you can. Let's face it, if you run out of torque and stall the servo, it's all over but the cryin' and of course the Hefty Bag. I had a Whiplash with Ultra Torque Digital Futaba's for servos and a Jett .50 RE for power. I was capable of going well over 200 in a dive. The surfaces loaded the servos so hard coming out of one dive, that when the plane pulled out, it snapped the Robart Hvy Duty control horn right off of one elevon. Of course, that was the end of the Whip. You can't go really fast if you can't hold the control surfaces rock solid. Sometimes as stated above, it still doesn't help.

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Old 09-26-2007, 11:07 PM
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ORIGINAL: Details 4 Scale

Hey Mike,


1. Where do you get the 100 oz in. servo torque from? ...

2. ...As for problems with the Phenom. I realize a couple guys were having problems,... I just can't imagine what the problems you are stating could be. ..

3. ...It's a fully molded airframe, they're all the same, unlike a pile of sticks, covered with plastic, prone to warping, covering blowing off, along with the occasional rough landing that results in the entire airframe re-kitting itself.
Hi Dan,
Since you designed the Whiplash then you know exactly what was recommended with the first release. Would you share that info with us??

#2 is almost a contradiction. Not sure why you directed that at me anyway since I am not one of the two people having problems. I have just discussed the problems documented by others in this forum. When I first saw the Phenom and the included cowl I was actually considering one despite the weight. I do not want any model to fail and had nothing to do with a couple of people having unexplained issues. I kid around sometimes and hope you did not take something out of context.

Is #3 a critique of the Delta I designed. [X(]
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