Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Sundowner, big speed

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Old 09-29-2007, 09:53 PM
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freakingfast
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Default Sundowner, big speed

Now I did it, I went and got my first big plane. I saw it in the store and she just called to me "Take me home with you"....so I did.
This Hanger 9 Sundowner is getting a Mark 2.10 engine and pitts muffler. The control surfaces get Hitec HS-5985MG's Got everything but the muffler. I hope it sees 130 MPH.[>:]
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Old 09-29-2007, 09:56 PM
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freakingfast
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

I have no idea why the picture got that big.
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Old 09-29-2007, 10:02 PM
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Stick40
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Very nice, needs a DA-150

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Old 09-29-2007, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

You should be able to get 130MPH

I have the same set-up and I am trying to experiment with some new props to get the best speed.

As soon as I find the correct diameter and pitch I will let you know .

Good Luck

Its a great flying bird.

___________________________

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Old 09-29-2007, 11:51 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

....I resized the picture.
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Old 09-29-2007, 11:53 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

thanks Dave!
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Old 09-29-2007, 11:56 PM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

....

....nice plane, FF....what's the wingspan on that baby ?
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Old 09-30-2007, 02:34 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Just an FYI, do some reading in the Pylon - "scale racing" They have a good thread going on this plane and the reviews haven't been so good. Couple have had the motor box come off in flight etc. From what it seems they're saying the glue on the plane is VERY poor. A lot of thumbs down in there. (guys even trying to get a refund on the plane)
I hope It works well and gets sorted out cause I want one too!
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:40 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Dave the wingspan is 80.5" , narrow at the tips and very,very thin.
Destiny, Im aware of the problem. Like almost any ARF, you must go though it.
Drip in thin and thick CA and add tri-stock here and there. I've seen the pictures of the tail & firewall failures.
I just tightened the sagging UltraCote on the fuse, about 30 minutes work. The wing covering is very nice. So far this plane's assembly/gluing looks good, I'll study it more in the sunlight.
Thanks for the heads-up!
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

I'd Like to hear some results on the Mark 2.10 speed wise. I'd like to put together a similar set up. It seems to be the most powerful power plant to get in there.
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:29 AM
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rmenke
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

FF:

Wow, yea, you really did it! 80", bueatiful bird, but she looks like some work is flat necessary. Its still much eassier than from scratch. Fuse should be easy to reinforce and go over glue joints. Problem could be from some mold release material getting into the surfaces and not cleaned properly. Only safe and best way to deal with the wings and covered surfaces is to remove one side and re-glue. Will save losts of long term grief. Sort of like buying a viper, installing aNelson and expect it to stay togeather. and This bird intended as a sport airframe as you know, and we are going to push it beyond intended limits by a bunch. Reminds me of the nut I see shaveing all the time. If you have never seen a giant scale airplane race, gotta do it. The engilne hop ups are flat unreal, old target drone engines, etc. turning rpm like a formula 1 as compaired to a VW. Not unusual for these guys to spend around $10,000. just on the engine, very serious raceing here. There are near stock engine classes running better one cylinder gas engines that don't shake everything apart. Some research on their thread may be time well spent. I pitted for a bud running Herbranson twins (drone WW 11 engines) a few years ago. Darn things really shake, almost pulls my light 190 lbs across the concrete sitting down. About the only stock parts used were cylinders and block. Unreal power, 20 pitch props, just unreal. The open birds are apparently well over 200 mph, and thats a lot of moving and shaking. Best of luck with this project, how about keeping us informed along with some pics? Gonna be vaaaarly interesting. best of luck. ENJOY
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Old 09-30-2007, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

ORIGINAL: rmenke

Sort of like buying a viper, installing aNelson and expect it to stay togeather. and This bird intended as a sport airframe as you know, and we are going to push it beyond intended limits by a bunch.

Exactly! or Like taking a box stock World Models 45 size P-51 with a YS-110 S stuffed in the nose and expect it to live through turn one without mods.
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:25 PM
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vertical grimmace
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Actually Vipers do not require a lot of work to accept a Nelson. The wing certaily will handle it no problem. The fuse just needs a little glass.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:12 PM
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freakingfast
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Well, the wood was thirsty for glue. I a total of 3oz.(weight) of CA . I start the wicking action with thin CA than chase it with gap filling so I don't fill all the wood in the area and make the plane heavy. The engine mounting box, fire wall, wing tube structure,landing gear support and rear servo/tail area were all covered. Several weak points were also identfied and small peices of 1/8" ply and 3/8" hardwood tri-stock were used to overlap these areas. I hope this will hold up to my flying style.[>:]

The APC props showed up today 16 x 16 , 17 x 13 and a 17 x 12. I may have to trim a bit off the 16 x 16 and 17 x 13 but I'll tach it first.
The Bisson muffler made just for the Sundowner is due around friday. With a bit of luck the plane will maiden on Sunday.
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:41 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

I know, I am confident that someone will eventually put a DA50 in this bird! Someone? Anyone? Its only money right?
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:08 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

You would need a longer runway, its gona land a bit hotter with the wing loading with a DA in it. Add the extra battery for spark too. 3/4 lbs more total (battery,switch,stand-offs, bigger muffler and prop). And yes, more $$$. Yes it would be faster but at those speeds it takes a lot more power to SEE the difference.
The DA -50 is a smooth running engine and I don't think the extra weight will tear up the fire wall unless you pull real high G's.
Betcha the big Saito 4 strokers are harder on the plane due to powerful shaking. On two other types of planes I've seen a big Saito pull the firewall off at run up. LOL.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:52 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

freakingfast, I had a moki 210 in a WM mustang, and I swung an 18x14 and 18x12 apc prop with success, I don't remeber the RPM's exactly but I'm pretty sure it would swing both of those props well over 8,000.
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Old 10-06-2007, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Can't wait to see you at the field with that thing! It sure is purdy!

I think the field is closed this weekend though!
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:49 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Moki 2.1 16x16 8400 on the ground battery pack way in the back. runs 150 in the air. I changed the color and painted the little dummy. no failures yet, its a little tricky to land with that much pitch. It slows down much better with a 17x12 just not as fast.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

I think a OS160FX on a full lenght pipe would also be a good option, or a Saito220.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

I have a DA 50 and I am not to sure if there is a newer one then mine, But by no means is it a smooth running engine. From what I understand its the only complaint that DA 50 owners have.
Love the paint job.
What nitro are you guys running in the 210 Fai or 5% to get those numbers ?
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Fuzzy, I luv the red. I just knew the 16 X16 would work, my Thrusthp program showed me that. and the ground rpm is about what it should be. The engine should be right in it's power band in the air!....Perfect! The first flight will be with the 17 X 12 so that I can get use to landing it. I'm installing an on board glow system to help get the rpm down for landing. If it's still too hot, I'll just dead stick it like a pylon racer. FAI fuel is what I have a lot of, so it's what I'm going to feed mine unless it get's cold.

vince,b I think the Saito 220 shakes harder than the DA 50. The DA makes about 5 hp and the Saito makes about 3.5 hp but the Saito has to make it's power only every other revolution (4 cycle). Hence the Saito's power stroke is actualy stronger than the DA's...More kick,more shake.
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Old 10-20-2007, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

A good first flight! I primed the engine through the carb with the crankshaft port open and with three back flips of the prop the Mark (Moki) 2.10 engine came to life.
Even at low idle the plane turning a 17 x 12 APC wants to roll, but not uncontrolable. After tuning into the wind the power was eased up and the plane was airborne before half stick. I told my self I was going to take it easy at first .....Hah, that didn't happen. This plane just sucks you in with it's smoothness, before long I was tearing up the sky at full power. The whole flight was done at the books high rate setting, for me I won't be using the book's low rate setting ever. The only complaint was the roll rate is very sloooow, but there's a lot more travel I can dial in. So what does it fly like? Like a very smooth big @$$ quickie 500. At about five minutes common sense prevailed and the plane was slowed to see how it handled for landing and final turns. No problems. On my third landing attempt I let it settle down on the wheels. I noticed as it passed me it's speed was a bit hot so I killed the engine, but it still rolled off the end of the runway. No harm done. I know I can come in slower next time.

After safety inspection a 16 x 16 APC prop was installed and the plane refueled(it had used only a third of a tank) . The plane was switch on but the engine refused to start. It truns out the onboard glow driver or it's battery failed so I packed it up and called it a day.
I went to the H.S. and picked up a "Micro Glow from 42 Percent Products to replace the Nelson Intelligent glow driver and a new 4500mah C size battery, I'll figure out the culprit later.
Tomorrow's another day!
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Hey can you post the rpm you are getting with that 16x16 on the moki 2.10 ...
thanks
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:37 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner, big speed

Vince It's real windy here today so I haven't had a chance to try the 16x16 yet. Looks like next weekend. The 16" should have about the same engine load. It's just a matter if the disk area is too small for the drag of the plane.
Same engine load;

18.2x9
17.6x10
17.3x11
17.0x12 (stock item)
16.6x13 (cut down a 17x13 ?)
16.3x14
16.1x15
15.8x16 (close to a 16x16)

Hmmm..... a pitch gage,heat gun, a file and a balancer and you could find the pefect prop.
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