C_Roundy

I was waiting for that question! WELL, as a matter of fact Slip-Stream in this proto-type iteration IS designed very carefully for SOME specific 3D aerobatic maneuvers. Steep deltas are the most stable shape possible in high alpha flight (say for instance from what would have been conventional stall angle of attack 18 degrees.... to about 70 degrees A.O.A.) Anytime you talk hardcore aerodynamics you inevitably either take reams of textbook analysis pages to do it, or grossly oversimplify. I am neither condescending to anyone or purposely talking over anyones head. I am just shooting straight (fully aware that no good deed goes unpunished)
The only reason our first example even has rudders on it is to hold and change heading in harrier mode. The elevons are large to achieve those angles of attack AT ANY SPEED as well as other reasons. For instance one simple fact is that I can achieve any given AOA with less deflection and therefore less disruption to airflow and less drag when I'm not purposely broadsiding the airplane to the slipstream (heh,heh), but simply pulling a conventional turn maintaining as much energy as possible.

C_Roundy

Working on that, for the record there was a reason that was necessary, but the other thread has served its purpose and I've asked F.B.D. to move the posts from the other thread here and kill that one.

C_Roundy

V.G. you raise a heck of a point. The way I see it, after all these years of priceless moments of success (and heartwrenching setbacks) with all the different kinds of hotrod airplanes that a boy of any age could ever dream; My legacy that I could rightfully claim on a tombstone would be a darn sight better than "he meekly paid his bills, then quietly laid down to die"
For me in my life there have been those moments where perhaps a more sane man would have zigged instead of zagged, cut his losses and gone on to do something, ANYTHING more productive. But I always have been drawn powerfully towards not only flight, but even more importantly to me, the dedication of men and women who across the brief history of human flight have sacrificed to give the art and science of flight to us, and our children.
Therefore speaking only for myself, if I can improve the breed (or at least honor those who made the things most of us sport flyers take for granted possible) then I have made the world a better place in some tiny way and somehow at least offset all the crap I put my parents through.

A classic author who lived centuries ago and had been everything from an ignorant and innocent politician trying to right injustice, to devout Minister trying to help the guilty atone for sin , said something along these lines. "And in the end I found the best thing I could do was to tend my own yard"
Build the best hotrods you are capable of, and fly them to the best of your ability and you will have tended your own yard by passing on what you know to those who are willing to take something from it.

In the simplest essence I believe the difference between men and animals is that we create our own environment, rather than just being subjected to whatever we can find.
Nobody ever gets out of here alive anyway so I say play hard - put your heart into whatever you spend time doing. As far as money goes, I am certain that I will have no use for it when I'm dead.

C_Roundy

OOOOOHHHHH Tommy tom tom thom... In my best Irish Brogue for no particular reason, if you friend have the nerve to ask it, than I shall tell it. She is a skittish horse thus' far, she attempts to Illude me still, tho' she knows I WILL reign her into me. She shakes soo hard as if I HAD put her up cold and wet, especially when she snorts suddenly and hard onto her pipe[sm=47_47.gif] Therefore I regret to say the best I could do on this, her first day on a track, after the quickest of sprints up to memorable pace, was to bring her home in blankets with strong medicine to sooth...

Tom, She still is having (even for me) unprecedented vibration level problems. I only managed the pivotally important first successful handlaunch, and two circuits of the field to accelerate out, climb, accelerate, and dive to confirm that our mold is truly true. She took exactly the trim that I knew she would take -with the pound of fuel- it took 2 clicks up, and I had set one click of right set which I took back out immediately after she acccelerated away............. Then for a brief period in my life, I touched the face of the almighty again.
PERFECTION, then the pipe pressure line cut itself having balked at such a pure moment, and caused me to have to clock in again on this plane of existance and do a tricky job very quickly to judge my energy and set up for the inevitable, when I passed my own head and she cut, I was close and real fast; so I swung way wide to set up and brought her on around being painfully aware at a gut level that I might not have enough elevon authority to bring her around if all my rack your brain til' you give yourself a stroke C.G. Calc.s
HAD been off by much at all. I am going with this story, I had to do what I had to do, for everyone that actually saw the landing, I think they will all agree that I am a Dumbass -BUT- of all the dumbass's of high breeding that I know, very few could've kept that airplane from destruction. I Kept her from destruction. Our runway is I think about 450' when I touched I was hot by at least 25mph. I ran her off the end of the runway. She has a little owee on her wing, and one on one of her bottom fin / gears but true to form my partner offered to take her home and do what comes natural for him compared to mortals. I need to figure out someway to access a 24 spool stainless steel braiding machine. I ran one in my misbegotten youth...

vertical grimmace

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Thankfully I skipped out on the church service today as no one could have matched your sermon!

bob27s

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Chuck.....

Amazing story.... and well told

Hey, just for education of the masses here....
I tell folks quite often about putting the jett fuel tanks in parallel like you have in your installation.
Can you comment on how the fuel system has worked for you thus far?
Any complications? (other than the cut pressure line)

Bob

C_Roundy

Bob, I am very pleased with the plumbing results (other than the pipe cutting the line right at the pressure tap), I hadnt heard of, or seen anyone do a parallel instalation; But I had to have about 16oz of fuel, and the Tettra 16 / 18oz tanks were way to tall to clear the tuned pipe much less fit inside a tight streamliner tunnel. Our feed / fill lines are not extremely short considering the tee fittings on both the pressure lines and the feed lines, but it turns out that I CAN easily get the bubbles out of both tanks simultaneously sucking them both down from the other side of the tee. In fact with the cowling off to monitor bubbles everywhere at once during the fill procedure, it is suprising how perfectly it works.

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

Good to hear Thanks.....

izzy

will we get to see a video of this beaut or what
come on dont keep us all in suspense

jetdryvr

Yea,....
Video would be very cool.

C_Roundy

Izzy, I'm working on getting you guys some video.
There was'nt much to the maiden flight which is all she has had so far, but on that video the things that please me most are reviewing the hand launch and listening to the engine in the air. I hope I can convey that we are highly motivated to do things right to ensure the prototype lives at least long enough to learn everything possible from it. For me the biggest reason for all the work is to share the experience of flying and building something special with as many people as possible!
You have got to understand that the airplane represents ALOT of work so I am not going to rush anything (9 years thinking the concept through, and six -no- eight months of engineering and working up fabrication procedures for every last tricky little feature)
As she sits right now the dings from my maiden landing are repaired beautifully, but the larger issue of stabilizing the pipe mount system is getting our full attention. Upon closer inspection, 'though the engine cools well (and I therefore refuse to cause more drag by opening up the streamliner) It has become apparent that the aft end of the "Stream-Liner" cowling is a BRUTAL place for mechanical bits to live! Off the shelf Pipe mounts shatter and melt. so we are engineering yet another custom system for the environment that we have chosen to make it live in.
Having said all that I had actually intended to share the maiden flight with you guys regardless, but when it finally came time, although I had a darn good camera man willing to drive a long distance for free just to make that happen, his digital camera had self destructed a few days before... So all we managed to come up with was an old fashioned tape video recorder.
Now, among other things that I do to figure out real ways to make my moulding mentor's efforts worth while, I am researching just which FAAAAST autozooming video camera to help make his for the future! (a badass digital camera would complement his Stalker Pro radar gun nicely I think) Soooo, soon hopefully.
I chose to release the existence of the airplane at the first reasonable moment that presented itself. You never really know for certain if you will live another day, but I had to at least get it flown and feel REEAAALLY GOOD about how she feels in the air. From now on no matter what happens, at the very least, the project has been documented.
GOOD video WILL follow (YEAH ESPECIALLY FOR YOU DOPPLER ANALYSER GUYS). Probably soon.

C_Roundy

Eric, lend me an absolute top of the technology Cam. which I will swear to give right back to you and then promptly give to my partner forever, and you may get some video a few weeks sooner.[sm=angel_smile.gif]

C_Roundy

WOOOAAHH there Hoss / Levi, you asked me about that in person and got the result that any "fiberglass man" knows he would get. Please don't misinterpret anything I've told you on this forum.... No offense taken...... -BUT-

Once upon a time a long time ago I made the same mistake (sort of) I asked a man who had been producing a composite version with a slimmer airfoil of an ancient delta called "Holy Smokes" if I could please BBUUUYYY his molds for MMOOONNEYY $$$$$$$$$ I will never forget his hurt and angry tone of voice at even being asked that by someone that he did'nt know VERY VERY well. He had stopped producing prefab. ARF airframes because as he explained it to me, it was was a dangerous arena for a man with a good and FAST mold to be in; people find ways to screw up their installations and flying practices and he had experienced a high ratio of "failures" of his airplanes in the air and as a result he bowed out taking his molds with him.
Apparently I called him somewhere around the worst possible time! (circa 1995) when he was still smarting a little from disapointment at the harsh reality of these things.
#1) people will ***** at you for something that is not perfect enough for them even though they never would have undertaken the work necessary to make WHAT YOU DID.
#2) people will ***** at you for it being "outright unflyable" no matter how carefully you engineer its true characteristics.
#3) people will ***** at you for the $$ it takes to set the darn thing up properly even when they understand the reasons why!
#4) (This is the biggy) people will STOP *****ing and attempt to SUE your *** into oblivion when they have an accident that hurts someone.

Now, for you Levi, I hold you to a high standard, because you are a "Glass Man" the price just went up 99999999 multiplied by itself; When I indulged you with a fairly detailed answer months ago, I was excited at your enthusiasm, and you had me fairly convinced that you are a glass man who was just new to "whatever simple differences there might be" doing it with models compared to "real vehicles" You will either forgive me or not, but there it is.

I have learned the hard way myself that you don't ask for a mans moulds without proving your worthiness with deeds performed across time, and when that point comes for you, you probably will prefer your own molds anyway. If I were your personal trainer, I would whip you into shape thusly. !@#$%^&*()_ But I can't, nobody can.
So I am trying to help you clarify in your own head what it takes to REAALLLY get good at something in this field did. Suck it up, and start performing deeds; design, build, test... design, build, test... then design build and test some more.

Make no mistake about it Levi, if you show me 5 years of true modeling heart, and if I'm still alive; I will show you some stuff that will blow your mind.

Best Holiday wishes to you and yours into the future!
Chuck

C_Roundy

Here is the "Way Back Machine" that really got myself and my partner thinking about STEEEEEEP deltas back in the winter of 98' We called her 30-30". She (without throttle or rudder did 189 with EVERYTHING hanging out in the breeze) and committed us to building a more serious airplane.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

CR:

Ok, thats where the latest "Yellow Jacket" thingy came from!! Our gang does not want to fly with it just because its a little scary fast. Gonna have to try to get togeather with you in the coming months, maby we can find out just how well that wing thing will turn, just for grins. Oh, yea, your lawns do nead some tending, your pictures show that. Regardless, thats a wonderful piece of work that screems for a launch ramp. I am your friend, so I can say those kinds of things without offence taken, right? ENJOY

C_Roundy

Thats quite alright brother Roger, for the record though, I have plenty nostril hair that the airplane is designed to leave unkempt as well [sm=tongue_smile.gif]...
Also, 'though I realize that you have been building and flying since before dirt was young, and therefore your first string NFL throwing arm is a little worse for wear and tear;
When I manage to get you guys some video I think it will strike you that the self-handlaunch is deceptively simple. And you will be righteously indignant that an underserving punk 44 year old whippersnapper like me gets to experience the decadent joy of actually FEELING a ferocious, fire breathing dragon leave my own hand to take the sky and RIP it asunder with shock waves of pressure and sound [sm=shades_smile.gif] ...

randy racer

My Feedback: (3)

damn! you guys can talk some smack!!!!!!

randy racer

Mike Connor

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I keep hearing Bill Oreilly say "Don't be a popinjay, keep it pithy". It is hard for this Okie to even get through some of the post. Cool looking delta though.

Tommy_Gun

So, some of you are wanting video of this beast eh?

Well all ya had to do is ask.

Here is the second flight of this speedy demon.

I apologize for the vid quality, I was playing with some camera settings and it seems I went the wrong way.

I think the next session will be better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO_wczhFF08

C_Roundy

AND I DID ASK! Big thanks to Tom for getting SOME video to show you all a taste of things to come!
For anyone who has never practiced tracking something like this in the frame of a camera, it is a nearly superhuman task. That is until you get that practice.
Then SOMEguys like Tom step up to the plate and give it a shot! NOW he wants more practice, and I am just the guy to be able to deliver! From here on out the speeds will go up a certain fairly large % for the prototype.
Thanks Tom!!!

C_Roundy

Shoot man, I only vaguely recall who Bill O'Reilly was much less the meaning of your little good natured "DIG" my Kentucky Brother. But if I understand your true meaning correctly, near as I can tell, you are asking me to talk shorter and simpler. I will make a sincere effort to keep my language to the point and simple.
If I fail at that for the specific purpose of your understanding, lets give each other three strikes and then just have the simple wisdom to let it go...

Above all, Best Wishes To You and Your's in This New Year! C.R>

Mike Connor

My Feedback: (5)

My personal preference would not be short and simple but succinct without fluff. Nothing wrong with being proud but a little goes a long way. I read like I write so don't take it personally that we express ourselves differently.

Bill O'Reilly is (not was). Did they outlaw Fox News in California? [X(]

Your landing on the runway hurt me. You guys really need to plant some grass out there to land on.

Attached is a WaveOScope of your SlipStream at the 3 minute mark. It seemed to be one of the faster passes of a level fly by out of what sounded like a dive. Not bad for a second flight. Did I see someone with a radar gun in the video?

freakingfast

My Feedback: (3)

This thing was wicked to watch. What is surprising is the camera's microphone didn’t pickup the crackle from the pipe after it flew past us, the engine was running too rich and it still went 196 on the radar .......In to the wind! Not even close to top speed yet.

freakingfast

My Feedback: (3)

There is grass but lumpy and it would be too costly to maintain ( the kids come in late at nite after a rain and do doughnuts with 4x4s )
The landing just sounds worse than it realy is. Sure wish we had that nice OK grass around here.

Mike Connor

My Feedback: (5)

Repeated landings with out any damage to the MonoKote covering is nice. Right now the grass and everything else is covered with ice from 24 hours of freezing rain.

It probably does not amount to a whole lot but the additional intersection from the fins on bottom does create some drag. On my delta I was able to add 10+ mph to the top speed just by moving the fins to the wing tips and reducing the fin volume coefficient some. The airlines claim 4% increase in speed from adding winglets alone.

I like Jett engines but I wonder if a 90 vrdf would work better on this plane.