Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

60 SIZE PATRIOT

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Old 12-07-2007, 08:12 AM
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hummingbird111
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Default 60 SIZE PATRIOT

HERE'S A FEW PICKS OF MY 60 SIZE PATRIOT,, THIS WAS A KIT BUILD,, IT TOOK ABOUT A MONth to build,, (sorry for the caps) ,,, can't wait for the maiden,, enjoy the picks.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

Looks nice
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:47 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

Looks great! [sm=thumbup.gif]
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:00 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

thanks guys,, it's been a while since i have last signed on . , sorry for the delay of response,, been tidying up those loose ends,, still waiting on a nice day for the maiden,.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:12 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

well all went well today on the maiden, plane flys great[sm=thumbs_up.gif] this plane lands sweeter than home made apple pie,i like,. here is the pick i took with my phone camera,, not so good but she's on the runway,.
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Old 12-12-2007, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

Great to hear And congrats...

Bob
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

What kind of engine do you have on it? I have a 40 size Patriot and it has a 46 Thunde Tiger with tunded pipe. I am thinking of selling it off and building another kit and installing a 90 size engine. To do that I was thinking of lengthening the fuse by 3" in the rear and widening the front for the larger engine. The Patriot is bad to get nose heavy. The 40 Patriot is a rugged airplane that can handle a lot of abuse and keep coming back for more. I was also wondering if the 60 had plywood parts for the fuse or is it mostly bala like the 40 size?
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:35 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

I have never flown the 40 size patriot. ,this 60 size flys great with the OS 91 fx and 13 x 8 apc,,,,it came out a bit nose heavy so i added around 1 &1/2 oz to the tail and it balanced out good, the fuse is aircraft plywood ., i havn't weighed the plane yet . ----------- The Patriot 40 size is my next project i allready have the kit and plans. , i plan on using the Jett 50 or Jett 60 lx their suppose to be great for a 40 size plane, i allready have the retracts for it too.. can't wait to start the building process.


----------VAROOOM!!!!-----------
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

The 40 Patriot needs more than a sport 46-50 engine can give. The Jett engines (50/60lx) offer a little more but not enough for true speed. The airplane is designed for speed, the faster it goes the better it flies and that takes larger engines. I would opt for the Jett 90lx and go full bore. It will require two fuel tanks and longer fuse in rear to get it to fly desent though. The reason is the Patriot is nose heavy with 46 size engines and will needs the longer tail to balance the CG and offset the torque of the 90. It is easy to add a couple of inches to the rear of the fuse. The 90 will suposedly suck lots of fuel and the extra tank above the wing will give that to you. I would also consider pizza cutter (plyon) wheels over the retracts for expense and weigh. I have seen a Patriot with the pylon wheels and it worked fine. Oh well, good luck and happy flying with what ever you go with.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

If you build light the .60LX should be fast enough IMO. No need to ad too much lead in the tail
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

ORIGINAL: buzzingb

The 40 Patriot needs more than a sport 46-50 engine can give. The Jett engines (50/60lx) offer a little more but not enough for true speed. The airplane is designed for speed, the faster it goes the better it flies and that takes larger engines. I would opt for the Jett 90lx and go full bore. It will require two fuel tanks and longer fuse in rear to get it to fly desent though. The reason is the Patriot is nose heavy with 46 size engines and will needs the longer tail to balance the CG and offset the torque of the 90. It is easy to add a couple of inches to the rear of the fuse. The 90 will suposedly suck lots of fuel and the extra tank above the wing will give that to you. I would also consider pizza cutter (plyon) wheels over the retracts for expense and weigh. I have seen a Patriot with the pylon wheels and it worked fine. Oh well, good luck and happy flying with what ever you go with.

I generally do not recommend installing a jett 90 into the .40 size patriot airframe. A few folks have done it. Took lots of work, quite a few modifications, some reconfiguration of the fuel system, and a bit of structural redesign. And in the end, it was just an overweight aircraft that was not all that blazing fast as you might imagine. When it came down to looking back on the projects, it was almost a scratch build when you added up the structural changes involved.

Take it for what it is. It is a small, sport-jet looking fun airplane. In stock configuration it flys great. Very smooth, somewhat pattern ship crispness.

The Patriot .40 was never intended to be optimized for super top end speed. It has a bunch of inherant drag in the design... but that goes down to styling and appearance.

Built well, gear up with a SJ-50 up front most folks easily hit over 110mph in level flight. Many get over 120. No doubt a 60LX can do a little bit better.

Also.... don't confuse drag and weight. Drag is overcome by power. It takes a large amount of power to overcome just a small increase in drag. Weight is overcome by lift - and the drag comonent due to lift for adding a small percentage of weight to the aircraft is small compared to the direct aero drag of struts and even racing disk wheels. (dont forget, add up all of the components of fixed gear installation including the steel wires and wood blocks, and you will see that the retracts do not weigh all that much more in the first place). So most of the time the retracts are a better option.
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Old 12-13-2007, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

Nice job!!

I had the Patriot .40 ARF. Flew fine, but not super fast like a delta.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:42 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

yes i believe the Jett 50 or 60 lx will be fine for me ,, anything close to 110 or 20 is fast enough for me , having retracts makes the plane fly as well as look good too,.
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:02 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

"yes i believe the Jett 50 or 60 lx will be fine for me"

I hope so since it is probably the best combination on the planet.

[X(]
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:47 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

Woops ,, the magic genie has been let out of the box,
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

I was hoping to put retracts on my Patriot but after pricing good quality retracts I decided against it. I know they are better for speed but who wants to spend almost as much for retracts as the airplane cost. I routinely fly my Patriot with other sport airplanes and with a sport 46 engine it isn't but a few mph faster than an Ultra Stick. I would dare say the large Patriot with (91FX) is about the same speed as my Ultra Stick 40. No, the Patriot isn't a speed plane in anyway especially with the recomended sport engines. I think I have read that the 40 size patriot will attain speed in the 190+ range and to me that is signifacantly faster than 110 that the smaller moter delive. Check Jett's web site Bob Holmes reported that he clocked over 190+ mph with speed gun. That might not be that accurate of course. Can't say for sure but if I ever build another one I want more that the 46 size engine is putting out on mine.
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

For most people 100 mph is fast enough for oters 200 ins't. I am one of the 200 mph'ers I guess. Most sport airplanes fly close to 100 with a good engine so why go to the trouble is you are only going 20-30 mph faster with an underpowered Patriot?
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Old 12-14-2007, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT


ORIGINAL: buzzingb

Most sport airplanes fly close to 100 with a good engine so why go to the trouble is you are only going 20-30 mph faster with an underpowered Patriot?
Buzz, 60LX for the .40 size Patriot is NOT underpowered but the 90LX was done by a member here (he is from Sweden or Norway) can't remember how fast his plane was. Do a search you will find the thread.

Peace-out,
Vasek
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Old 12-14-2007, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

OK- Most sport planes do not hit 100MPH first off-

2nd unless you get a Jett or similar the Patriot is not impressive. (Insert Corvette with Volkswagen engine joke here) but a Patriot with retracts and Jett-50 (or 60LX) will be "fast" trust me...

Actually I think you are on crack so I should not have bothered posting....sorry
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:33 AM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

Again, how fast a sport plane flies really depends on what kind of engine you have on the nose. If you are using the stock engine I could agree it won't be but about 80 but if you go beyond the recommended size it will be right close to 100. Maybe that was all that crack I am on though.. Oh sorrry, shouldn't have posted.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT


ORIGINAL: buzzingb

Check Jett's web site Bob Holmes reported that he clocked over 190+ mph with speed gun. That might not be that accurate of course.
I just posted what was sent in. It is a few years old now... I probably should retire that from the front page rotation.

A few of use sat down and sorta figured it out once... it would take about 6 HP to get a little patriot to fly at 190mph. So for what it is worth
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Old 12-17-2007, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

I like to overpower all my planes. I am flying a Ultra Sport 40 with a Super Tiger 90 I also have a Tower 75 on a Shrike 40. Neither of these planes are overpowered in my opinion and neither have lead added. They both will fly very well and fly as fast or faster than my patriot 40. I also run some 3D planes that I use the lighter recommended engines on. My favorite is the Saitos and I own or have owned 65,72, 80, 90,180 and will probally be buying more.

I would agree with you Bobs27 it is probally a little exaggerated at 190+ but you must admit, it would prabally be faster than a 50. Do you have any information as to just how fast the Patriot will fly with a 90LX?
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:21 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

ORIGINAL: buzzingb

I like to overpower all my planes. I am flying a Ultra Sport 40 with a Super Tiger 90 I also have a Tower 75 on a Shrike 40. Neither of these planes are overpowered in my opinion and neither have lead added. They both will fly very well and fly as fast or faster than my patriot 40. I also run some 3D planes that I use the lighter recommended engines on. My favorite is the Saitos and I own or have owned 65,72, 80, 90,180 and will probally be buying more.

I would agree with you Bobs27 it is probally a little exaggerated at 190+ but you must admit, it would prabally be faster than a 50. Do you have any information as to just how fast the Patriot will fly with a 90LX?
Actual speed numbers, no ..... nothing there. You might be able to run some dopler numbers from the video.

Methanlover was the only one who truely had a successful Patriot .40 conversion up to 90LX power - and he did his on a complete airframe rebuild - so it gave him flexibility in reconfiguring everything, especially the firewall and fuel system.

Video here
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6141000

Thread excerps...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5135994

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5139620

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5931381

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5934641

I have seen reliable air-data and radar data for a few of the big Patrot XL aircraft with 90LX power, and all of those combinations have proven out to be repeatable over 120mph in level flight ..... and some more out of a shallow dive.

One such example.....
http://www.jettengineering.com/hall/je-patxl.html
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

Thanks Bob for all that info. I have read it all before and seen the video before. The plane in video is the Patiot XL, my focus is strickly on the 40 size Patriot. There is now way to get the XL up to speed with any motor and 120-130 is probally about all it will do. Like you say getting a 90LX on the 40 is not an easy task and will require some reworking but it has been done. I wonder how fast the 40 will truly go with the 90?
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: 60 SIZE PATRIOT

That is not a Patriot XL... i dont think ?? Maybe I copied the wrong link... but it seems to load ok - title is Patriot90LX

Methenolover rebuilt his .40 size patriot using the .90LX power. I thought that flight video link was from his post.

The question as to how fast ...... perhaps using the dopler software and his flight video one can find out at least how his performed in that particualar flight.
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