Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Sundowner 50 Arf

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Old 11-16-2009, 01:34 PM
  #601
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sevans16

I built one with an AX 75 and slimline pitts, completely in the cowl. I have pics in another thread in the ARF section- I think.
I am looking at building another one with a Jett 60xl, I wonder if the Jett 76 would work the same way?? a clean install.
I am also looking at the new OS 95AX that just came out.

I had a Sundowner 50 that I lost sometime last year. It had a 91FX in there and it worked out pretty good, except for cooling issues here and there. I'm building another one of these and plan to put an OX 95AX in it. Definitely covering one of the inlet holes in the cowl to aid in cooling. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:30 AM
  #602
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

If you have cooling issues close the one inlet and open up the back of the cowl both sides where it meets the leading edge. This helps big time in geting the hot air out. I have a 91 fx instaled and it used to overheat until I did this.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:42 AM
  #603
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

Why would you close up an inlet? I thought if you had both inlets open and open the outlet would work..I don't see how restricting the inlet air helps.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf


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ORIGINAL: jdkxtreme

Why would you close up an inlet? I thought if you had both inlets open and open the outlet would work..I don't see how restricting the inlet air helps.
As I recall, it had something to do with making the airflow less turbulent coming in and reducing the amount of "stagnant" air that stayed in the cowl. Basically closing up the hole opposite the engine head allowed for more constant airflow over the engine. Something to that effect. I had heating problems, until I covered up the one hole. I DID still open the back of the cowl some to allow for greater air escape volume.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:14 PM
  #605
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

I have mine ready to fly now and the Rossi sounds really good. Should try it in a few days. Where is your CG ending up guys?
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:23 AM
  #606
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

Well, finally got some numbers today. Not really all that promising out of the Rossi .67. my old reliable APC 11-8 is giving me around 11,000 rpm. this worked great with my kaos. My 10-9 APC is getting around 13,000. I think I need to go down in pitch one. but still, what is this good for? 15,000? So a 10-8 may be my prop. The rated horespower is 3.5 @ 17,000. how do you achieve this? Maybe with a full wave pipe. Suggestions?
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:28 PM
  #607
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

My Rossi 45 with a Jett Muffler would pull the 10-8 APC at 14k. It sounds like you're only running a muffler. You really need a tuned exhaust of some sort to get some respectable power out of that motor.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:28 AM
  #608
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

a pipe is better in overall power, but unless you are running a 10MM carb its choked, i just bought a new 10 MM rossi carb to use, and i have a os 10Mm heli carb to try as well
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Old 11-27-2009, 03:23 AM
  #609
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

[link=http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Sundowner-going-down-Engine-sep]Sundowner 50 with OS95[/link] I don´t know if a OS95 is such a good idea after watching this...
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

VG have you checked the deck height on the rossi yet, bet it may set too high, smaller prop may allow you to reduce deck clearance
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:21 PM
  #611
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

This is the engine and muffler I am using. http://shop.vendio.com/RossiEnginesU...339/index.html The one I have is a .67 though. I assume this was gained through stroke as opposed to bore. I have not taken the head off of the engine. and honestly, even If I were to mic the thing, I would not know what to do with the numbers I got anyway.
I think I may try to pick up a cheap full wave pipe and possibly get the 10mm carb. After putting the calipers to mine, it is the 8mm variety. I will still go ahead and test fly my plane, but I do not think It will give me more than about 100-110 mph as it is set up now.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:42 PM
  #612
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

do you have any head shims in it now, and if so could you check them, i can give you the dimensions from my engines and shim thickness
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:12 PM
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

Sounds to me the plane was over powered, over stressed, he was doing full speed diving fly bys and pulling up putting tons of stress on that plane. I saw a guy at the field do that with an electric Extra, put a larger engine in it and ripped the tail off.

Looks like a typical Tim Taylor over powered airplane...lol
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:01 PM
  #614
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Switch_639

[link=http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Sundowner-going-down-Engine-sep]Sundowner 50 with OS95[/link] I don´t know if a OS95 is such a good idea after watching this...
I have this same combo and it runs fine. That being said, I did a complete reinforcing of the entire firewall and exppzied over where firewall meets fuse with carbon fiber tape. I did this same thing when I had an OS91FX on my former sundowner, which had at least 100 flights on it before i lost it when tank ran dry upwind of me
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:37 AM
  #615
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

I put a 427 on my riding lawn mower...
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:34 PM
  #616
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

I still have not flown mine. I just got a full wave pipe today and I also have a large bore ( 10mm) for my Rossi .67 on it's way. I guess I just want to get my final setup before I take it to the field. Not only that it has been below zero all week! now I just need to get a compatible header. I want a Macs I think as I want it to bolt right up to my engine. Not just the slip on fit that the stock Rossi header has.
I am hoping I will see a performance gain with this set up. I have not run a full wave pipe in a long time, so it may take some experimenting.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:25 PM
  #617
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Switch_639

[link=http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Sundowner-going-down-Engine-sep]Sundowner 50 with OS95[/link] I don´t know if a OS95 is such a good idea after watching this...

Anytime one puts more power in a plane than it was originally designed for, there are potential weak points that need to be addressed, like firewalls for one.

If the guys racing WM P-51's didn't help the firewall, there would be a lot of YS 110's buzzing around with out the plane attached
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:01 AM
  #618
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

LOL...I have a 30cc gasser in mine. The engine was never meant to turn 14,000 rpm, but it does. By looking at the plane...you cannot tell it has a 1.80 cu inch engine in it.
It flies full throttle for about 8 minutes with the included tank (think it is 10 oz).
It actually flies quite well! I am happy with the performance.

It actually fits under the cowl without too much trouble and the all up weight is 7.44 pounds. I need to trim the muffler outlets so they are so exposed and causing more drag.
I made this Sundowner 50 as a speed plane...just for experimentation. Although I do not have a radar gun, it is traveling a measured 600 ft in 2.8 seconds.
Right now I have a 13 x 14 pitch...but am going to a 14 x 16 pitch as the engine is not getting loaded enough and I need more speed.
The airframe is stock except the firewall joints were filleted with West Structural Epoxy fillet. That stuff is easy to use and strong.

Sometime when I have time the 16 pitch (or more) will go on, I will fillet the servo trays in the wings, get skinnier wheels, and trim the muffler tubes.
Hopefully it will get to 180 or 190 mph straight and level. To get over 200 mph I will have to use an ES tuned pipe, but not sure if it will be too long.

I am looking for a carbon tube for the wing for this plane...anyone know of one?
In 100 mph turns (I do go easy most of the time) you can visibly see the wings flexing about 4 degrees.
I'm thinking about clipping the wings to reduce drag more...we will see. No time right now...
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:04 AM
  #619
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

oh...The downer has about 30 fast flights on it now...no troubles yet..
I understand that the engine might be a little big for this plane...and if something structurally happens to it...I will accept it.
I carefully went through the rest of the airframe with glue to make sure all the joints were good.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:38 AM
  #620
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

30 CC GASSER THAT IS SO COOL !!!!
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:26 AM
  #621
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

I guess you can always dream
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

for anyone interested check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_t_t8FiLY

Check it out at (fast forward to)
8:45...that is the fastest pass...
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:49 PM
  #623
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

The 10 mm carb showed up today along with my Rossi tuned pipe header. I should get it mostly mounted up tonight I hope and possibly a test flight this weekend. I am sure, I will get some performance gain now. I was able to get very good deals on the carb and tuned pipe on fleabay.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:15 PM
  #624
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tsyssa

for anyone interested check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_t_t8FiLY

Check it out at (fast forward to)
8:45...that is the fastest pass...
Very Cool!
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:37 PM
  #625
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Default RE: Sundowner 50 Arf

OK, let me just let everybody know that the Macs header, DOES NOT fit the new Rossi engines. Found out the hard way, learn from my mistake. I think I will just cut the header off of my existing muffler and use that. It is what Rossi sells anyway. I just hope it is not already too short.
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