Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

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Old 08-23-2012, 12:04 PM
  #501
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ChuckL

Extreme Flight has the Outlaw in stock, I just received an orange one and it looks really nice.

What're you going to power it with?
I've got mine set-up with a Webra Speed .36 on a Macs tuned pipe. Screamingly fast. Sounds wicked.
Butttt since I'm leaving the glow nation I'm trying to figure out what to convert it to electrically.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

I am powering a similar size delta with a 1000 watt power setup should get close to 180 or so.
If you want some serious power and speed look at the Neu motors, pricey but high performance.
A good 100-150 amp ESC (I like the castle creations ice series with data logging) and a good battery you should be golden.
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

I can't see 1kW getting 180. That'l get a F5D to 200 but the Outlaw is a rock aerodynamically in comparisson...
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Your right it would probably take close to 1500 or (even better) watts for that airframe, mine is a lot cleaner than that one. I should have looked a bit closer at it the wing on my SD is a lot thinner.
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

sodbuster:

I played around with it, using a lot of the different Hackers, and couldn't get anywhere either. Everytime I got some good speed numbers with fairly low amps, the program said the prop was turning too fast and would stall.

Here's one that works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMOIMsTRIiI

"Incredible brushless electric conversion of an Extreme Flight RC Outlaw flying wing by Dan Malone with a modified Scorpion Motor with extended motor shaft mounted on a nylon block with an auxilary shaft bearing. 6S, 5000 mAH lipoly battery, Graupner 9X6 nylon prop. Dan says he's flown this plane as fast as 189mph since this video was made in June, 2009 at the Buder Park RC Extravaganza."

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Old 08-24-2012, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

That thing was hauling! If you don't mind what type of amps was it pulling?
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

I don't wanna know.

Actually, he doesn't say, so I don't know. Should be some way to contact him, tho. Maybe he's on the verse?
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Don't trust those prop calc programs.
They work for 'regular' setups.... if you go overboard, the data is false.

For high hp (watts) high rpm setups you can go 150% over the limits posed by these calculators... easily...just buy a quality motor... a good motor can be pushed at least twice as hard as advertised (burst, 10seconds or less)...
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

And I really want to see an Outlaw doing 180 on 1000W... no way... doesn't matter which way you prop it, and what motor you have... it won't happen
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:24 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Your right, after looking a bit closer at the airframe, I had to adjust my suggestion for power in the 1.5 to 2 KW range. Even at that power level you would have to go nuts lighting up the airframe as well as keeping it as clean as possible.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rudeboy

Don't trust those prop calc programs.
They work for 'regular' setups.... if you go overboard, the data is false.

For high hp (watts) high rpm setups you can go 150% over the limits posed by these calculators... easily...just buy a quality motor... a good motor can be pushed at least twice as hard as advertised (burst, 10seconds or less)...
Not to hijack the thread but I have a question.
It's good to hear that it is possible to push the motor as hard as you just mentioned, (given my background in electronics I though it was plausible) I am currently experimenting with just the type of setup you mentioned.
Right now the real issue I am having is getting the plane clean enough so I can get the prop out of a stalled condition. I may very well have to go to a larger diameter prop but was experimenting with a smaller prop hoping to limit the load on the motor. Right now I am thinking of upping the power by 25% and see if that will give any results.
Any suggestions?
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

My question is why would you want an Outlaw to go 180, much less 200? it was designed as an acrobat, a quick one but an acrobat. IF you want something like the Outlaw to go fast thin down the wing about 50%, fair the motor into the nose, figure a way to get the packs thin by running four thin 3S packs. A delta is more draggy than a normal plane and harder to get fast, yes it can be done but a delta will always be a tradeoff.

I think 180 can be done but I think it'll take at least 1500W and a bit of playing with the airframe to get the packs it would need. The ARF is just not a good starting place for this, get the old plans and build one, modify it, have fun with it.

Most on here know I've done that having built many "normal" Outlaws, my oversize twin (Banditos), and the modified one on floats (Skeeter)...

Can you spot the mods in my "ARF"? How many can you spot in the Skeeter?
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Your twin was EPIC Evan... still remember the noise from the vid... awesome sound (2 two-strokes slightly out of tune)

Those were MVVS's, right?

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Old 08-28-2012, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

The later large crank .40's front intake rear exhaust. Yeah the sound is what makes it. Electrics just don't sound the same. I need to sell it to a "brave" soul...
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

I'll have it... just for the heck of it.... do you ship overseas? ;-)
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU

Can you spot the mods in my ''ARF''? How many can you spot in the Skeeter?
I'm not all that familiar with the outlaw but from what I can see some of the modifications appear to be:
One of the first things I noticed on three of the planes it looks as if all of the control linkages are internal.
On the twin besides the center section being widened it was lengthened, has added fin area, and I don't see any control linkages showing.
As far as the Skeeter, besides what looks like a real flight background for a flying field (nice) and of course the linkages hidden, and the floats, it looks as if you flipped it upside down and put the fin on the bottom.
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Interesting observations. All have horns and servo exits on the underside so that is why you don't see linkage. The US Navy ARF has the motor area all faired in like the original plans that Jerry made. Elevon linkage on the bottom, these mods really clean it up but are not very noticable unless you have a standard build side by side with it. The Twin really is just enlarged. The airfoil is thinned to get some more speed out of it and it really is quite larger than a stock Outlaw. The Skeeter is also quite modd'ed with the motor flipped to get the pipe under the plane. The fin has been lowered with almost as much under as above so the rudder acts as a water rudder while on the water. They all fly really well. Jerry did a great job in the design.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:03 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

It is a nice design but as you said, not at heart a speed plane, although I bet with the power you had on them they can move pretty quick.
It was hard to see the fin behind the float, that's a real neat plane, I was wondering about rudders on the floats you came up with a nice solution. I missed the fairing on the Navy job.

I guess I about the only one nuts enough to bury the linkage on a delta to get a bit more speed. That's what I am doing with the SD I am putting together right now (well that and a few other things) it's wing is a lot thinner than the Outlaw I think.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:28 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Any thoughts as to how the ARF would perform using a Motrofly 3615-1250kv?
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Any thoughts as to how the ARF would perform using a Motrofly 3615-1250kv?
Would use a 6s 5000mah pack

Here's the available specs.Weighs 182g

DM3615-1250 speed planes Fast Planes up to 5 lbs. 6s Lipo 1800 W 8x6 Graupner on 6s 150 plus pitch spee
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

By the specs you have it sounds good. Do you have a link? If you can fair it in like I did on this electric dust it'd be great.
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU
By the specs you have it sounds good. Do you have a link? If you can fair it in like I did on this electric dust it'd be great.
Evan,
That looks like it must have been a interesting setup, that's blended in quite nicely.
If you don't mind a question what did you do for cooling?


Sodbuster, if you do as Evan suggests it should be a real nice setup.
If you look at their specifications as suggestions rather than hard fast limits as far power when selecting a propeller it should be pretty quick. Also I didn't see if those values they quoted was 1800 watts continuous or peak as far as power handling. My guess is the motor is rated for something in the 75 to 80 amp region and not sure if this is burst or continuous power.
Just keep cooling in mind when you set it up, getting into the 2KW region, the power setup is going to generate a lot of heat.
I'd go with a minimum of a 100 Amp ECS and would probably opt for a 125-150 before I was real comfortable .
I am using a 100 Amp ESC with a motor rated at 58 Amp continuous and really should have opted for a 125-150 myself but didn't and I am pulling my hair out trying to prop it because of it.
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:45 AM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

For the electric there are four cooling holes over the motor and the hole to lift the battery hatch (held on with magnets) is the exit with channels through the interior. I've tried it with a few different motor/ESC/ battery set ups and the most fun set up is the lower power/ lighter set up. It is not full Diamond Dust size and set up like it is now is in the 130mph range. I don't remember the motors but it started with a mega 16/15/2 on 3S then went to a /3 on 4S and I think it has a 28mm Ammo in it on 3S now, I think with a Castle Thunderbird 54A ESC. Like I said I don't consider it fast but it does an awesome roll. And flys really well, gets very slow while maintaining stability.
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:54 AM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

That's all the specs available unfortunately.
Motrofly is only carried by one seller here in the states and details are not that available.
Unfortunate because they're really good motors.
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:47 AM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Thanks Evan Great information! On my hybrid delta/flying wing I am using a Het 28mm motor 2w-23, and the Screaming Demon is getting Ammo 26-56-3200 with a CC Ice 100 and a four cell. The Hybrid delta/flying wing I have only tried on a 3 cell so far but it is designed to handle a 4 cell.

Sodbuster, the price on the motor is cheap enough that I would at least try it out.
If I had a unlimited budget and were looking at getting a real serious electric motor I would be looking at the Neu motors or something similar. I noticed the the German speed cup planes are using them and Scorpion's for power.
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