Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

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Old 08-30-2012, 07:21 AM
  #526
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

I found the 16/15/2 on a slightly cut down 4.1x4.1 to be a great setup for a small S400 pylon plane but a delta is much less efficient and the small 4.1x4.1 was too small. So I tried the /3 and it got too hot. So I went to the Ammo and a larger prop. Took alot of experiments to find a good combo.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

I might actually give a Neu a try if I could figure out which one it is I should use lol.

On the Scorpion, I contacted Dan Malone (the guy in the video with the 180mph ARF) and he said he kept wiping out Scorpions as the shafts would whip too much and kept wiping out the guts of the motor.
He eventually went to a Hyperion (built by Scorpion, but I think with better components).

One of the reasons I like the Motrofly is because it's a little shorter (however a little wider) than other motors in the same power band which I would think would make for better shaft support. I don't know if the extra width will cause me any mounting issues though. Have yet to look at the firewall or get the exact outside dimension on the motor.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:37 AM
  #528
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU

I found the 16/15/2 on a slightly cut down 4.1x4.1 to be a great setup for a small S400 pylon plane but a delta is much less efficient and the small 4.1x4.1 was too small. So I tried the /3 and it got too hot. So I went to the Ammo and a larger prop. Took alot of experiments to find a good combo.
After my experience with the HET in my plane I have found that getting the right prop can be a real issue, I am still chasing it.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:47 AM
  #529
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Sodbuster,
On the first flight of my hybrid delta/flying wing I was using a 6X5 prop, I am not sure which causes the motor shaft to bend it's 1/8 diameter shaft, or a crappy prop adapter but have since been trying to get a 5 inch prop that will work (so far no bent shaft). So I understand the shaft issues, to be honest I think a lot has to do with the mounting on the larger motors. But with a 43 inch wingspan I may have to go back to a 6 inch prop, the second flight with a 5X5.5 the prop never came out of stall but wasn't loading the motor that much. Right now I have modified the cowl and cooling intake to see if the 5.25X6.25 apc might work for it. So far the best speed was the first flight and that was 140-160 with the 6X5 prop but I am hopeful that reducing the cowl area by 40% behind the prop should help.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:52 AM
  #530
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

The Scorpion and Hyperion are not the same motor though I think they may be made in the same factory.

My little e dust is only 24.25" span to get a full size dust or SD to fly on a 28-56 -3200kV would be something, seems like it should be too small a motor to turn the size prop you'll need, at least a 7". Worth trying but by my seat of the pants I'd look to a 1509 Neu or even bigger. They come up on the classified quite often.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:28 AM
  #531
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

My PQ Stingray which is based on Mike Connors PQ is the hybrid delta/flying wing I mentioned is the one am trying to get to work on a 2850kv motor. With a 5X5.5 prop the motor was spinning better than 27k but as I mentioned the prop never came out of stall. The first flight we saw some interesting burst of speed using a 6X5 apc speed prop (in the 150-170mph range) drawing something like 900 watts, the plane has a very low frontal area but we never really got to push it as there were some issues during the flight. One of these issues was the loss of the battery hatch the magnetic latches or hinges failed. The other was that the crappy prop adapter took out the motor shaft or the 1/8 shaft couldn't carry the disc load of a 6 inch prop. (I am not sure what happened but the shaft bent.)
I am taking the lessons learned on the stingray and applying them to the Screaming Demon as I build it.
This is how it looks so far...

And one more showing the PQ Stingray after it's mods were made.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:50 AM
  #532
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sodbuster 1

I might actually give a Neu a try if I could figure out which one it is I should use lol.

On the Scorpion, I contacted Dan Malone (the guy in the video with the 180mph ARF) and he said he kept wiping out Scorpions as the shafts would whip too much and kept wiping out the guts of the motor.
He eventually went to a Hyperion (built by Scorpion, but I think with better components).

One of the reasons I like the Motrofly is because it's a little shorter (however a little wider) than other motors in the same power band which I would think would make for better shaft support. I don't know if the extra width will cause me any mounting issues though. Have yet to look at the firewall or get the exact outside dimension on the motor.
I would guess that your looking at 35 mm as the OD of the motor (1 3/8inches). Give your self about another 1/16 inch of clearance around the motor and you should be good for cooling It's my understanding the tighter the better for cooling as long as you can get airflow you need. Given this if the airfoil is at close 1 1/2 inches thick putting that motor in should be no big issue.
I like to have the motor on hand when I build to test fit it during the process and planning.

Basically at this point any high power electric setup is an experiment in process and you have to accept the fact that your going to encounter obstacles in the process.
I thing you may be right about the shorter motor being worth a try even if the OD is over 35 mm.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:07 PM
  #533
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Though some impressive speeds have been attained by outrunners recently I am still of the belief an inrunner is better for speed and an outrunner for torque (hovering and 3D)... The Neu's are all speed... unless you slap a gear box on it...
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU

Though some impressive speeds have been attained by outrunners recently I am still of the belief an inrunner is better for speed and an outrunner for torque (hovering and 3D)... The Neu's are all speed... unless you slap a gear box on it...

I'd definitely agree with that statement. It just stands to reason on a same size motor if the armature is driving the prop rather than
the outer case you will achieve higher speeds since the armature is of a smaller diameter so makes more revolutions than the larger outer case.
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Old 08-30-2012, 02:08 PM
  #535
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Both motors I am trying for speed applications are inrunners and high Kv to boot. So I guess you can add me to the inrunner crowd...
I wish the budget would allow for a Neu motor, but right now that is only wishful thinking, I think a 1515-2700 would work nice in a SD although it would be half the weight of the airframe.
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Old 08-30-2012, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Too high a kV... think 6S 4000-5000mA and a 8X7 APC fuel prop... the 1515-2.5D will get you over 180 on 3000W.
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:51 PM
  #537
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Evan
Is that your recommended Neu motor for the Outlaw ARF?
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:59 PM
  #538
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

No, I was just going with what Iron Eagle was doing. He's talking a SD which is a .40 size plane. The Outlaw being a .32 size and not really designed for speed I'd prop it to 140 or so.
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:42 PM
  #539
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

But let's say for some odd reason you WANTED it to be a speed plane,
what motor then?
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:02 PM
  #540
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Well, unfortunately it has more drag. Fortunately it can fit more batteries if you do 2 3S packs of about 4000mA. With that and a 1512-2Y and a 8x7 to start and then a 8x8 you'd have a ton of fun. Watch the classifieds here or pu a want add for a 15 series of 1300 to 1500kV and then prop it appropriately.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:19 PM
  #541
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU

Too high a kV... think 6S 4000-5000mA and a 8X7 APC fuel prop... the 1515-2.5D will get you over 180 on 3000W.
Is that the one rated for up to 36 volts?
Hmm, a seven pitch prop spinning around 33k interesting.
That setup sounds like it would be in the neighborhood of 135 or so amps.
You would have to get creative with battery placement. My current model would be a bit tight for that but there's always a chance for a MkII sometime in the future if funding for a project like that becomes available...
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:38 PM
  #542
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Yes to 36V... It would be some hi-ish amps and with any speed plane battery placement gets touchy. Do 2 3S packs and it'd be a lot easier to fit. If it was easy we'd all be going 200, right?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: iron eagel

Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU

Too high a kV... think 6S 4000-5000mA and a 8X7 APC fuel prop... the 1515-2.5D will get you over 180 on 3000W.
Is that the one rated for up to 36 volts?
Hmm, a seven pitch prop spinning around 33k interesting.
That setup sounds like it would be in the neighborhood of 135 or so amps.
You would have to get creative with battery placement. My current model would be a bit tight for that but there's always a chance for a MkII sometime in the future if funding for a project like that becomes available...
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:06 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

It would be some hi-ish amps and with any speed plane battery placement gets touchy. Do 2 3S packs and it'd be a lot easier to fit. If it was easy we'd all be going 200, right?

The amps really don't worry me, it's the battery requirements and weight that goes along with it cause concern on my part. Even with 2 3S at 5k mah your only talking total power of 5 amp hours and I am guessing a pound and a quarter of weight and maybe 2 minutes flight time (all figures SWAG).

No it's not easy and and a pretty darn steep learning curve just to try...
I'd like to see my current project get close to that without coming apart Mikes new design has some real potential to hit that. Cruise in the second flight was about 90 on around 70 watts where the prop worked.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:37 AM
  #544
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

I just did a maiden flight on my Outlaw yesterday.  My set up is an OS32SX with a Macs Muffler, Hitec 485s.  With the recommended throws, no expo, it was a handful.  Landed it cut down the low rate from 40% to 26% and added in 15% expo it was much easier to handle.  The initial settings were way too much for me to handle.  I'm going to fly again today and get used to it's characteristics before I flip on the high rates.

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Old 09-03-2012, 05:18 AM
  #545
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Congrats on the new plane. When you get ccomfortable with high rates she's an awesome acrobat. Are you running a APC 8x8?
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:38 AM
  #546
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU

Well, unfortunately it has more drag. Fortunately it can fit more batteries if you do 2 3S packs of about 4000mA. With that and a 1512-2Y and a 8x7 to start and then a 8x8 you'd have a ton of fun. Watch the classifieds here or pu a want add for a 15 series of 1300 to 1500kV and then prop it appropriately.
Evan,
Do you think this will give more speed than the Webra .36 on a tuned pipe that's currently
in the plane?
Have it running an 8x8.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:50 AM
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Evan, I'm running a MA scimitar 10x6. It's fast on that set up.

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Old 09-03-2012, 06:21 AM
  #548
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

You're doing 120 with the Webra and 8x8 level. The electric set up will get you 165 or more but it will be much heavier and less fun. The Outlaw really is better on a .32 to .36 and a pipe... Look at what it cost you to set up that Webra and then price out the Neu, ESC and LiPo's... The Outlaw is an acrobat, if you want speed get a speed plane, you'll be happier in the end. A much cheaper 1110 to 1115 in a composite pylon plane and you're doing 200... Keep the Outlaw as is and spend the money on a new plane...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sodbuster 1


Quote:
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU

Well, unfortunately it has more drag. Fortunately it can fit more batteries if you do 2 3S packs of about 4000mA. With that and a 1512-2Y and a 8x7 to start and then a 8x8 you'd have a ton of fun. Watch the classifieds here or pu a want add for a 15 series of 1300 to 1500kV and then prop it appropriately.
Evan,
Do you think this will give more speed than the Webra .36 on a tuned pipe that's currently
in the plane?
Have it running an 8x8.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:22 AM
  #549
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

Fast is relative. Soon it won't be and you'll be moving to a 8x8 and upping those throws...


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ORIGINAL: Captain Terrific

Evan, I'm running a MA scimitar 10x6. It's fast on that set up.

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Old 10-02-2012, 07:46 PM
  #550
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Default RE: OUTLAW from EXTREME FLIGHT

finally bit the bullet and ordered one of these.just put the order for a red,white and blue one.picked up an os 32sx just broken in and also the macs pipe with it.i have a macs header and tuned pipe but they kinda don't like that at our fieldreading here it looks like your saying an 8x8apc would give me good speed?i also have an elect. stryker that is clocked at 117-120 level runs,and a shrike 40 that is awsome fast.use to speed but kinda like the crazy stunts this plane can do
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