Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Patriot Flaps

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Old 04-17-2003, 11:13 AM
  #1  
Bob Payne
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Default Patriot Flaps

Has anyone put and used flaps on a patriot?
instead of making flaps, I thought about adding a second servo
to the wing and setting up flaperons?
this plane has to come in kinda hot not sure if flaps would
be worth the trouble or not?
dont want to try to come in toooo slow or it will stall?

Thanks
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Old 04-17-2003, 12:26 PM
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gtalbot
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Default Flaps

I've never flown one, but I have one on the building board.
I'm planning to put two mini servos (Hobbico CS-35) in wing for ailerons. This will allow me to use flaperons.
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Old 04-17-2003, 12:46 PM
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Bob Payne
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Default Patriot Flaps

dont know if i have ever seen the hobbico servo's you mention
but this thing goes like a rocket not sure if i would use mini
servo's or not.
need a little torque when going fast.
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:44 PM
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banktoturn
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Default Patriot Flaps

Bob,

Flaps are a natural on a plane like the Patriot, which doesn't necessarily mean that it would be easy to add them. It certainly makes more sense to add flaps to a plane that would otherwise land 'hot' than to add them to a plane which is already a slow flyer. I've never really understood the trainer-with-flaps thing, but to each his own. Flaperons would probably help some, and certainly are easier, but wouldn't give you enough added lift to slow your landings very much. The ailerons simply don't have enough chord to be very good flaps. It would be preferable to have good sized flaps inboard, and ailerons outboard. This lets you get more lift for slower landings, and keep good aileron authority.

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Old 04-18-2003, 12:32 AM
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AQ500
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Default Patriot Flaps

The Patriot has a tendency to tip stall. Flaperons would make it worse. I had mine set up with flaperons and I ended up not using them after seeing their affect. The plane will actually slow down well and lands nose high, somewhat like a delta. The wing loading is not all that high compared to DF or turbine models. I think it is right around 25 oz/sqft. Larger inboard flaps would be better for this application like mentioned above. It takes practice, but once you get used to it this plane is cake to land.

I have a kit right now that I'm going to start building. I'm thinking of throwing a Jett 60L on it. I miss my Patriot that I had about 4 years ago.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:39 AM
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Default Aha-

I just got ahold of this Patriot- It has inboard "split-flaps" and ailerons on the outside-

Need to throw some elec. in and fly-it, will keep you posted...

Looks more like a novelty because they are soo small...

james
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Old 04-18-2003, 12:29 PM
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Default Mini Servos

Bob

Thanks for the heads up on torque for servos in the Patriot.
My Airtronics BB standard sized servo is rated a 50 oz/in.
The patriot is designed to have this single servo in the center of the wing pushing both ailerons.

The mini servo is also rated at or above 50 oz/in...I will put two in the center of the wing, one driving one aileron and one driving the other...seems I should actually increase the torque by cutting the load in half? Let me know if this is faulty thinking.

I would be interested in more comments from those who have flown the Patriot with flaperons...pros and cons...AQ 500 brings 1st hand experience to the table.
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Old 04-20-2003, 06:04 AM
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Default Patriot Flaps

I would be more interested in more comments from those who have flown the Patriot with flaperons...pros and cons...AQ 500 brings 1st hand experience to the table

Well, excuuuuse me- How dare I speculate and show a picture for your approval without having first-hand experience.... Sometimes I am just "easily confused"....

Best of luck to ya corky-
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Old 04-21-2003, 05:11 PM
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Default ???

Razor

Not sure if I understood you last post...didn't mean to throw spears. You have a great set up with the split flaps, something I'm too lazy to take the time to set up.

However, I will set up a simple flaperon method.
Just looking for others with flaperon experience on the Patriot.

I'm guessing split flaps and flaperons with react differently.

Would love to hear from many people as possible about flaps, split flaps, no flaps, flaperons, etc.
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Old 04-25-2003, 09:30 PM
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Default Patriot Flaps

The problem I found with flapairons is that you loose a lot of the aileron authority. When your slow and the aileron authority is low any how, adding the flapairon option makes it even more of a handful. I would suggest some slow flight at 2 thumbs high to see how your plane reacts. With mine I had stop using them if it was a bumpy day or gusty. I only used them on nice calm days.
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Old 04-27-2003, 03:00 AM
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Default well-

Flew the Patriot with the split-flaps today... They make a BIG difference-

But I need to mix in some down elev. with full flaps

The first landing was without them and I would guess 25 MPH- with the flaps deployed (1") maybe 15 MPH, and I always land on the fast side

Dunno if this helps- I know the big question is about "flaperons" but...

james
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Old 04-27-2003, 05:31 AM
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tkigar
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Default Patriot Flaps

I have seen Razor fly and he is an ace....he knows how to set planes up very well, He sold me one of his old Patriots out of his collection of many patriots and misc jets. I take the time to listen to what he has to say because he is a person who doesnt answere a question just to make conversation, he wont answere unless he knows. Just my 2 cents Tim
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Old 04-27-2003, 08:31 PM
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Default Patriot Flaps

Keep us updated on the split flaps. If they do make that much difference I might build my kit with them.
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Old 05-06-2003, 03:20 AM
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Default Patriot Flaps

The airfoil of the patriot is designed for higher speed - putting flaperons on it will, as indicated earlier up, WILL tip-stall this airplane during slow flight... Ask me how I know. The inboard flaps with outboard ailerons is definitely the way to go. The split flaps, although simple to build (relatively), create more drag than they do low-speed lift. SO - do you want slow approaches (requiring more lift), or braking action to bring the plane down more quickly?

If you want to generate more lift at low speeds, you should at least look at Fowler flaps. These are used on the Top Flite Gold P-40 Warhawk. The construction manual is downloadable and shows detail on how to build and hinge the flaps properly. On this airplane, because of your speed when retracted, you will want to ensure that the lines are clean and have minimal intrusion on the airflow. Also, don't deploy them at speed, or you'll rip them off the wing!

I also found a really good aid for fine tuning and experimenting with slower approaches - Flight Sims... experimenting is much less costly there... You may even elect to avoid flaps altogether... they ARE more complex and troublesome than wings without... Just my 2cents...
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