Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Looking for something Faster!

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Old 02-15-2008, 08:58 AM
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cmircman
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Default Looking for something Faster!

Ok guys I need some advice. I am looking to start a new project. I would like to build something that will hit at least 150mph. I do have a viper with a TT46 and it flys good but now I need to go faster. The only requirements the new plane has to meet is I dont want anything I have to hand launch and it has to be able to fly off of grass. I am not looking to compete in any races I just want to go really fast! Thanks in andvance for any information.



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Old 02-15-2008, 09:46 AM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

150 straight and level is the point where you don't buy off the shelf stuff. At a minimum you'll be looking at a Jett on a tunned muffler. There are a few F3D airframes that come up for sale now and then. These and a decent motor will get you to a true 150+. You didn't say what budget or if you have one. To get 150 consistantly you'll need a decent budget.
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:52 AM
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cmircman
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

I am looking at going with a Jett for sure. I was thinking about putting one on my viper but I do not think it will get me anywhere close to where I want to be. As for F3D airframes I have no idea what to expect for price. I was hoping to stay around $300 for the airframe.


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Old 02-15-2008, 10:52 AM
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rmenke
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

cmircman:

Welcome to the world of reality. We have some real treasures in this forum, a little respect will get you untold knowledge and help in addition to saving you some large bucks and errors in direction. Ok, you have a Viper, a relatively quick little bird that can be seen well. First decide on the size you want to work with, 30 to 90. The 40 sized engines and airframes are the most available , years of R & D into their designs. The Formula 1, 40 basic racer is the fastest and best flyers off the shelf, the Q-500s follow in top speed. You can always build your own as you gain experience, and something you must do in the 90 engine area. Power and rpm's = speed, quality power in the 40's size enines = Nelson, Jett, and Profi and money. Ducted fan engines will also do the job for the more knowledgable, and people willing to deal with the modifications needed for their rear exhausts and carb locations. Nelsons are generally all out racing engines, however can have a carb mounted and will sort of idle and transition. Nelson also makes a top of the lile DF engine under the name of Bob Violet in the 90 sizes, as does OS and a few others not generally worth discussion IMHO. If you want the usually unobtainable, power and user friendly, you go to the Sports Jett engines, but may be shy of that 200mph, but usable in other places than all out speed. My favorite is the Jett 60 LX with black pipe, a large bore engine in sheeps clothing, rpms close to 20K pulling more prop than a 40 can and also fit into your 40 motor mount and about the same weight. It will also idle and transition with the best. Strap this dude on the Viper and you will be close. Stick it in a Formula and you should be there in the 190 to 205 range.

I start mine up on the stand, sit it down and idle out to the strip and take off and land normally. Fly around as you will at 1/2 throttle or less and keep the high speed down, or scare the gang WFO. I have two, one in a streemlined upscaled Q-500, standard wing, fuse longer in front and rear by about 1" and fatter to provide 12 oz of flight time fuel. The other intended for a Rusty Miss Ashlely incomplete for now waiting for my old eyes to be possibly corrected. No doubt in my mind, around 200 for sure. If you think you will want to race at some point with the big boys, stay with the racing 40. No control of the engine to speak of, but what the heck. Frankly, few pilots are ready for 200 mph right away, usually takes some working up and stay high. Things happen quickly at 15-20' off the ground and 200 mph on a race course. Be prepaired to pay around $400.00 for your engine and to $650.00 for th airframe. Do not get cheep with the flight pack, the rpm's are tough on equipment. Take loving care of your engines and they will scream for many years. My original SJ Jett 35 is now on its 7th year and relagated to practice, but it took the gang 5 years to beat it, barely. Yes, you can find good used engines and occasionally airframes. I buy my engines new and build my airframes based on Quickee or Formula wings found, given to or bought. To me, each engine has its own personality, talks to me in terms of what it wants, and deserves loving care. Gang usually laughs when I kiss the 35 or 60 on the head prior to a race, but there are seldom any snide remarks after the race. Yes, most go fast guys have one screw a little loose, its from those high rpm's. ENJOY
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

Simple,

buy a Nelson or Jett Q500 motor and put it on your Viper. You will surpass 150 mph and be closer to 160mph.

There has been quite a few SS (Short Stroke) Q500 motors (both Jett and Nelson) listed at the big auction site. Many of them are very good engines that are only being sold due to the Newer LS (Long Stroke) motors being introduced in the last year. These have been selling for the most part around $175-$200, I may even have a couple listed before spring.

I would be carefull about which ones you bid on, I've seen some very nice ones that I know have been treated kindly by well known racers, and I've seen some pretty shabby ones from people I don't know that I wouldn't touch.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:41 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

There are many answers to that question.... but lets keep this very simple.
Your requirements are grass field, landing gear, no hand launch -- and you obviously want a smooth flying plane when you are done.

First, start off with a Jett 60LX engine.
(as noted, there are some "retired" 428 racing engines you might want to look in to as well if a throttle is not a requirement...)

Next, buy and build a GOOD Q-500 airframe. Does not have to be an all composite airframe ... but it could be.
(no, I do not include an ARF viper or predator II in that defined "good" category).

Bolt engine to plane.
Use a bubble-jett tank.
Bolt on a 8.8 x 8.75 prop
Standard 15% sport fuel

Effortless 150 mph. (probably closer to 160).

----------
Good wood kits out there. Look up Danny Kane's Hurrikane, Dave Normans Seeker, Lewis Schwab's PaceMaker3, and even older kits on ebay like a Doddger will suit the bill.

Matney Models Mad Dog and new Mad Dog 2 are great glass-foam basic kits.

Any above are designed for the flight loads and performance you are looking for. Build per the plans and instructions.
-----

If you want to go that fast with less engine.....

Again... build a good Q-500 airframe.
Build the wing as usual, but then clip each wing panel 4". That drops the span to about 42-44".

To that resulting airframe add anything from a TT46pro and jett-stream muffler combination --- on up in power.

There are indeed some deals to be had out in the market place for used Q-500 engines too. Dave's cautions are VERY valid. You could buy yourself a paperweight.

--------
Reason I said "GOOD" airframe ---- the Viper and Predator are nice kits ---- both fly great. I have flown both in 424 sport pylon configuration.

But neither is built properly 100% out of the box for the loads of a full blown 428 Q-500 engine, or the Jett 60LX engine. Just setting in some reality here folks - and trying to avoid problems others have experienced. So this may be more for the benifit of others who read the thread later, and not necessarily for the original poster...

If you are willing to do (and have the skills to do) some model building and improvements, yes, either of these can be made suitable. But consider this ... by the time you spend 10 hours or a few evenings modifying an ARF, you could have built one of the better kits - had the wing sheeted. Yes, they build quickly. And then you would be at the same point where you were going to start installing a radio and engine.
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

hey rmenke,
You have a 60LX? What prop will it pull? Apc carbon q40? Or other? I have a miss ashley and was thinking about the jett. Already have a Nelson to go in it but if the jett is similar I think that would be better.
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

60lx does not turn the R's to use the Q40 prop. Use a Jett or Nelson Q40 engine.
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:58 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

I would just like to say thanks for everyone for the help. I have been checking out Matney Models as Bob pointed them out and have found two planes which have really cought my eye. The Zoomer and the Napier look really nice. Does anyone have any input on these two or should I just stick with the Mad Dog as Bob suggested?



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Old 02-15-2008, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

either of those would make an excellent sport-speed ship.

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Old 02-15-2008, 11:35 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!


ORIGINAL: cmircman

I would just like to say thanks for everyone for the help. I have been checking out Matney Models as Bob pointed them out and have found two planes which have really cought my eye. The Zoomer and the Napier look really nice. Does anyone have any input on these two or should I just stick with the Mad Dog as Bob suggested?



Rich
Zoomer build thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_64..._zoomer/tm.htm

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Old 02-16-2008, 12:11 PM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

EB:

Not going to go round and round with Highplanes, too much respect for him and may be right. The 60LX with black pipe will hold its own pretty good in the rpm department, but can not turn with the all out Jett or Nelson race engines. It will pull more pitch prop by a considerable amount IMHO, making top speed in equal birds very very close. My advantage is stick a 8.75 X 8.5-9 apc on her, start, needle, idle down to 2,000 or less and taxi out with great idle reliabllity. I like to be able to land under power considering my loss of skills coming about. Awww, lets be honest with the gang. Just love to take off, back off to 1/2 or less throttle and cruse around waiting for the sucker of the day to come up and play. They still believe that "it just clean out a little"? Greybierd, if out there, keep quiet or else.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:00 AM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

Any of the three options would work well and exceed 150 mph.

I had a Mad Dog and really liked how it flew and the fiberglass fuse and pre-installed firewall made it go together quick. If you've never built a V-tail, that can be a little tricky, but not any harder than installing a firewall straight and perfect in a Zoomer or Napier.

All good airplanes. Pick the one you like, but I think the MadDog will be the most user friendly in terms of getting use to speed and landing these sleek airplanes. You may find landing the hardest part.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

Thanks for the info Dave. I would really like to have a plane that can easily exceed 150. Just because a plane can go faster does not mean I have to fly it full throttle right away. As for landing this planes what do I need to watch out for? Do they stall easy or do they just not slow down? All the planes I have flown give guys problems on landing but for some reason I can just grease it in. I may just be that lucky. If one of these are a little more challenging that would be the one I am looking for, I need something that is going to keep me on my feet.

On the other hand I will be totally honest to the point I have never built a kit.The main reason is I just do not have the time because of my job and my 2 year old son. I do have some fellow club members that fly nothing but planes built from kitts that have offered to help me out with my first one. At this point I am just looking into suggestions from you guys for a good airframe. I have not made any decisions yet.


One final question for now. Is there any differences between the seeker and the mad dog? Does one have a advantage of the other?Thanks in advance for all the advice.


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Old 02-17-2008, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: Looking for something Faster!

They are just cleaner than your average sport plane. It is easiest to land them dead stick, as they glide a long way. The Quickie style planes are easier to land than the Zoomer or Napier (a little more drag). The biggest problem people have landing them is overshooting the runway. The quickies are nearly impossible to stall, you could stall the zoomer or napier, but really they are not any worse than your average warbird.

As to differences between the two quickie kits. Mine (Seeker) is an all wood fuse, Kevin's (Mad Dog) has a fiberglass fuse. Both are good flying planes, the only real difference other than the fuses is the airfoils.
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