Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

New Dust

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Old 04-21-2003, 12:35 AM
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vetagator
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Default New Dust

Has anybody any experience with the New Generation Smaller Diamond Dust?
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Old 04-21-2003, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: New Dust

Originally posted by vetagator
Has anybody any experience with the New Generation Smaller Diamond Dust?
Yep vetagator, I've Been flyin' the "Clipped Wing 'Dust" that Jeff Gilbert custom built for me for a few months now. I have to call it custom built because thats what it is... (he called it an ARF!)
It is ABSOLUTELY superior to any delta that I have flown in 25 years of flying all the diifferent and sometimes bizzare deltas that I've gotten my hands on. When I talked to Jeff initially, he warned me that the "Clipped" would bleed a little more speed than the stocker while pulling g's but I was coming off a deppressing experience with trying to get performance out of a whiplash on a high RPM small prop setup and I knew damned well that if I could just get a brutally strong, straight, and stiff airframe to be as light as Jeff talked about I would have a winner.
Well sure enough Jeff delivered in spades. I took him up on his offer to build my gear into the airplane without any additional charge, and when this Beauty came back to me ready to fly, it weighed 3.25 lbs. with JR 4735's on elevon, JR 341 on throttle, 1100 mah AA sanyo 5 cell, and my trusty Jett F.I.R.E. ducted fan .50
The 4735's were Jeff's pick and I'm damned glad I bowed to his expertise, these servos transform an RC airplane into a thought guided airplane... (such is their precision/torque/speed) I never would have guessed just how much better a huge throw, huge surfaced high speed airplane would track through high G maneuvers if I had not been coaxed into running these servos.
I could go on and on about the way that jeff Laminates the fins out of thin balsa with carbon inlay, sharpens the carbon tube leading edge of the wing with triangle stock, stiffens the whole airframe with multiple spanwise wraps of kevlar cord, supplies and mounts monster elevon horns, etc... But , NAW....
The singularly important thing is how this thing flies!!!
I have flown F3D, QM40, and Q500 airplanes, etc... They all obviously are good at maintaining energy through G maneuvers but to transition on pitch AND roll axis with crisp "Stop the World Suddeness" That is the "Clipped Wing Diamond Dust" experience.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: New Dust

Originally posted by vetagator
Has anybody any experience with the New Generation Smaller Diamond Dust?
Heres's a pic of the way I start.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Re: New Dust

Originally posted by C roundy
Heres's a pic of the way I start.
And the Effortless self Launch... (heh,heh)
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Old 04-21-2003, 04:39 PM
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Default Ok

How fast? What prop and rpms?
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Old 04-21-2003, 04:52 PM
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Default diamond dust construction

'I could go on and on about the way that jeff Laminates the fins out of thin balsa with carbon inlay, sharpens the carbon tube leading edge of the wing with triangle stock, stiffens the whole airframe with multiple spanwise wraps of kevlar cord, supplies and mounts monster elevon horns, etc... But , NAW.... '

Just curious but if you got this thing essentially prebuilt how did you see all of this stuff?

Anyone else who didnt get a special deal from the factory have any experience with this model?
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:27 AM
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Default Clipped Dust

I have one due to arrive shortly. Jett FIRE 50 power. Will post pix.
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Old 04-23-2003, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: diamond dust construction

Originally posted by jlong34016
'Just curious but if you got this thing essentially prebuilt how did you see all of this stuff?
Jlong, as for the Carbon in the fins you can see the outline of the inlay slightly bulging the lamination everywhere the carbon is.
Also, I looked right at the carbon peeking out the bare wood bottom of the fins before I glued them in.
Regarding the leading edge, the Diamond Dusts have always used a hollow round carbon tube, this cannot be sharpened to a point and leave you a tube left at all. My "Clipped Wing 'Dust" leading edge is a fully sharpened 60 degree point. So clearly Jeff Gilbert added material in front of the tube.
The Kevlar cord can be seen easily right through the white ultracote, there is one spanwise wrap around the whole airplane at the front mainspar tube, and two wraps at the rear mainspar. (You can also clearly see that Jeff actually laminated the cords up and down to the inside of the covering with perfect continuous strips of either more ultracote or some kind of tape). The wraps have multiple functions, they stiffen the airframe, and they stiffen the open covering sections to prevent drumming which reduces drag, keeps the covering from loosening and fatigueing, and helps prevent elevon flutter.
But just as important to me personally as seeing the beautiful work he put into my airplane with my own eyes, the reason I know whats in it is because Jeff Gilbert told me exactly how he was going to biuld it, and I have grown to trust him completely. I have only been this pleased with the workmanship of a prebuilt airplane one other time, and that was a "Richard Verano Special" F3D racer which cost $1000 from Harold Sattler of H&M Racing.
Best regards, Chuck Roundy
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Old 04-23-2003, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: New Dust

Originally posted by jlong34016
How fast? What prop and rpms?

Jlong, I have grown very leery of making any speed claims because of past experiences with people starting rants, (nothing personal regarding you, I assure you.) But I will tell you about my
Clipped Wing Dust's setup. The engine is a Jett F.I.R.E. .50 with ducted fan A.A.C. liner and piston, (non B.S.E.). I run a Mac's riser header to clear my 8.5 oz. Tettra tank, and a Mac's tuned pipe.
After cutting the header as short as I could, and then cutting the front of the pipe some to get maximum static R.P.M. running the engine in stock form for the last few months, I consistantly got 23,100 R.P.M. with an APC 7.2"x8.6" on 15% nitro with 20%- 95/5% oil. I got about ten flights per glowplug and the engine starts, idles, and transitions unbelievably well for its R.P.M. range.
I was extremely pleased with the engine overall, BUT it
was unloading very little in the air. So as I got more and more comfortable flying a very tight, close in, high speed pattern with the the airplane I became convinced that the engine was holding me back (7.2"x8.6" is the steepest pitched cheap prop I can find thats even close to safe at the R.P.M. range I'm targeting), and with my engine's port timing duration I was running right out of R.P.M., NOT horsepower, just R.P.M.
Soo... after consulting Dub Jett, my engine is in Houston Texas at the moment getting a bit of a makeover. Foremost Dub is raising the port timing to let it unload to the highest possible R.P.M. in the air on my target propeller, and he is also giving it three other things that will be good for a couple of hundred R.P.M.
each. 1) counterbalanced spinner, 2) Nelson plug type Cyl. head, 3) an oversized Carb. throat.
Just in case your wondering, there is a reason that I need to run a Carb. instead of a venturi. I like to be able to fly my 'Dust anywhere, anytime so I don't choose to depend on having a qualified helper available and willing. I self start and self launch by holding the silicone pipe coupler, and if I started wide open the pipe would get to hot to fast to let me use my procedure (heh, heh). :devious:
If Dub has recovered from all his recent globetrotting, I should have the engine back pretty soon now. And if you would like me to, I will let you know how much higher the modifications get the engine performing.
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Old 04-23-2003, 07:47 AM
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Default Primitive History...

Here's a pic of the only airplane I've ever flown that handled anywhere near as good as a Clipped wing 'Dust at cruise speed. I scratch built it four years ago with alot of help from a good friend who taught me bagging, and later hollow molding. We called it the "30,30".
Named after a rifle cartridge, or for it's dimensions, take your pick.
On a whim, we gave it the exact topview profile as the SR-71 Blackbird, and we got pretty damned good with a foam cutting jig to achieve the 60% sweep, 4.5% thick T.L.A.R. airfoil.
It is just a crude proof of concept airframe, but GAWD does it handle! It does something I have never seen another RC airplane do, (I call it the crow manuever after the MIG-29 Fulcrum manuever but the "30, 30" does it way better). Go 180 m.p.h. straight and level slam monster rate elevator function and it intantly broadsides 90 degrees to the slipstream making this hellish POW! sound. You just have to push the nose back down before it gets below about 90 m.p.h. or else you run into a minor problem that also makes the launch slightly exciting.
On launch something about the 60 degree sweep and/or the superthin airfoil gives it a wierd quirk, if you even breath on the stick below 80 to 90 m.p.h. it starts flipping end over end (yes we played with the C.G. and it still does it). When it happens it always ends up pionted nose down and slow, forcing you to pull on the stick again! So the best you can possibly do is pancake the airplane hard but flat on the tall stuff to save it. Soo... instead of letting common sense intrude and retiring it as unflyable, I grew some Balls and developed a procedure.
I simply throw it up at 70 degrees, bank angle is irelevant, just let it torque roll three times in about four or five seconds without touching the stick NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS , at that point it's going about a hundred m.p.h. and only then do you ever so carefully help it finish its last roll and GENTLY push the nose down. After that She's a *****cat. Oddly enough, deadstick it handles impeccably down to it's 15 m.p.h. 35 degree nose high touchdown.
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Old 04-23-2003, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Primitive History...

Here's another pic of the "30, 30"
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Old 04-23-2003, 05:17 PM
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Default weight

So your launch weight is 3lb 13oz. Looks like it pulls right out of your hand from the picture. My nelson q40 turns that 7.2x8.6 prop at 23,500. My launch weight with Whiplash extreme should be 3 lbs 14.5 oz. So launch with that setup should be good. Old whiplash was hard to get airborne.
The problems looks like no top end speed with the low pitch. I will be very interested to see what the modified df engine will do. Most i have gotten out of my old whiplash is mid 180's. To get much over 200 mph i was thinking i needed 9 or 10 inches of pitch but prop availability is a problem. I may need to pull out the Nelson FAI.
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