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Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

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Old 03-04-2008, 12:20 PM
  #1  
stg61abc
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Default Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Found this incredible video in youtube from our friend Hector from Monterrey/méxico
GP Patriot powered by Rossi 53, tuned pipe, retracts and APC 10X8 prop
various!!!! 168 mph (271 km/h) passages verified by radar!!!
incredible
congratulations Hector!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRIbC7_8U_0
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Gotta love those Rossi's
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:55 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

They must have the MOTHER of all Rossi's. To do 167mph with a 8" pitch prop takes about 22,000 rpm! I have a Rossi 53 and it will NOT turn an APC 10x8 at 22K. Not even close.

I have doubts. It may be possible, but I have doubts.

Bill
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Hi Bill, just see the radar readings, and the ballistics passages !!!!
enjoy ...
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Congratulations Hector!! Plus, he's at approximately 3000' MSL, so he's REALLY got that thing going.

Tim
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:55 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Heres all you need to know (lol)
Hectors Patriot rules.
Cheers.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6693939/tm.htm
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

All right then... that's it. I'm dusting off my Patriot and I'm going to finish building it. I was going to re-enter flying with an ARF. But what the heck, just about all that's left to do glass and paint. The wings already primed.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Heres all you need to know (lol)
Cheers.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6693939/tm.htm
I have a Q-500 with a Nelson and a $1,500.00 radar gun. With 15% nitro, 7.5 x 8.25" pitch pylon APC prop, pizza-cutter wheels, hidden controls, gap-less hinges, and pointed straight down for 3,000 feet, it will do about 185. Tops. Really that's what it will do. Tops

In the above post he mentions about 15,500 RPM.... 16,000 revolutions/min x 8 in/revolution is 128,000 inches per minute. That is about 121 miles per hour. I have spent MANY days with my radar gun and pointed it at hundreds of planes and that's about all you're going to get with this RPM and pitch.

I once went to a fly inn with my son. We met a fella there that had a honking Ultra-Sports 40 with retracts and a piped 60 that said it would do 200mph. It was crazy fast but I said I was skeptical. He pointed to a kid (my son) with a radar gun and said he saw with his own eyes 212mph. I explained to him that it was most likely a hit off the prop and that his plane would not do 200. (I've gotten hits off planes not moving at over 100.) He spent the next 15 min going past my radar gun consistently clocking about 145. I only point this out as an example that had I not been there, this individual would be posting here his Ultra-Sport does 200mph.

As a rule, you will NOT go faster than the prop. If he really was using an 8" pitch prop and doing 185mph, it was at about 22,000rpm. (By the way, 19,000 is the max recommended RPM for an APC 10"dia.)

I'm not saying it didn't happen... I just am a doubting Thomas. I would need more information to be convinced.

Bill
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

People are fickle.[:-]
LET IT BE, LET IT BE, LET IT BE, LET IT BE (BEATLE'S)
Looked like somewhere between a 156.875 and 187.875 to me but hey.[>:][>:][>:]
Bring that Mexican Patriot up here to the "Revver's Get Together" and let Razor fly it![X(]
I bet he get's 200 mph easy!
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:54 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

My bad. I forgot the "rest of the story" by Mike Conner.
Cheers.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6861620/tm.htm
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

I have clocked many airplanes on radar myself. Not sure how many but prolly over 3 digits. I have spent hours watching/clocking plane after plane cruise between 150-300mph (dynamic soarings). I have also clocked many a jet at jet rally's, fast guys at the field, and Q-500 and Q40 contests. From my impression that patriot was doing some pretty big monster dives and then leveling off. Also keep in mind he is at 3000 feet as well. 168 did not seem unreasonable at all based on what I saw in the video. If I had to do a visual analysis with no speed given I would say over 150 for sure. It is not usual to clock dive passes way in excess of prop pitch speed. For example I had a plane that did a very consistant 152-155 level but out of a big dive I saw over 170. There are no brakes that come on when a plane exceeds prop pitch speed just some extra drag. I'm surprised the Bushnell gun picked him up at all as those guns are generally horrible at clocking small objects at high speed. You would be surprised how much speed you can build in a dive with a decently slipery model and some weight.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:31 AM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

It is not usual to clock dive passes way in excess of prop pitch speed. For example I had a plane that did a very consistant 152-155 level but out of a big dive I saw over 170.
z06kal.. We are looking at the same numbers but stating the conclusions differently. Earlier I said " As a rule, you will NOT go faster than the prop." What I meant by this is that folks should begin with the calculated speed before posting they are doing _____ mph. It will save folks from posting they are doing 200 with a 10x6.

While you would say "It is not usual to clock dive passes way in excess of prop pitch speed", I would say "you will rarely see dive passes more than 10% of the prop pitch speed". Notice 10% above 155 is 170 so we are numerically saying the same thing but putting it differently.

Soo... a 10x8 at 15,500 rpm static unloads to, say, 18,000k (that is being very generous) and on the pipe, plus 10% for the dive is 149 MPH. 149 MPH corrected for 3,000 feet is 158 MPH ( http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasinfocalc.html ). Add a 10 knot tail wind and you get 169mph... I guess it's possible.

There are no brakes that come on when a plane exceeds prop pitch speed just some extra drag.
Agreed... but... the prop is increasingly acting as a source of drag (not thrust) as it exceeds it's theoretical top speed. At its theoretical pitch speed, the airplane only "sees" the airframe drag and varying degrees of prop drag (not thrust). That is why it is so difficult to exceed the prop speed... At that speed, there is only drag and gravity.

I'm surprised the Bushnell gun picked him up at all as those guns are generally horrible at clocking small objects at high speed.
I use this gun and highly recommend it.
http://www.stalkerradar.com/sport_im...rdcase-big.jpg

I think we are generally in agreement and please understand, I gain nothing by proving or disproving Hectors claim. I got into this discusion only to suggest that a fairly draggy plane like the Patriot with a fairly low rpm engine like the Rossi, turning a sport APC 10x8 is going to be very hard pressed to go particullary fast.

I should have added much sooner that it is a VERY good looking plane. I got so involved in speed discussions that I forgot to mention it's a very nice model.

Bill
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:38 AM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

ORIGINAL: wjvail


Soo... a 10x8 at 15,500 rpm static unloads to, say, 18,000k (that is being very generous) and on the pipe, plus 10% for the dive is 149 MPH. 149 MPH corrected for 3,000 feet is 158 MPH ( http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasinfocalc.html ). Add a 10 knot tail wind and you get 169mph... I guess it's possible.
Bill
The two threads listed above by gsoav8r had many pages of discussions on if and how this Patriot made it to 170 mph.
The radar speed was confirmed with Doppler and they were very close. Doppler also showed the unload rpm of 17,647. Calculating pitch speed considering prop camber and a terminal velocity speed that allows no prop slippage, most agreed 170 was possible.
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

The Doppler does not lie,if it shows Hectors Patriot doing 170mph and the radar gun confirms it,then I believe it.Here is my Patriot which hit 151mph.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

stg61abc thanks for see the video and for take part of your time in this tread

Hey SPEED JUNKIE if you know the secret of your friend to reach that easy 200 mph , please let me know jeje I can't obtain yet [&:] . Anyway If I can break 180 with the "new prop" I'll be very glad

wjvail : take a look to Mike Connor tread ( why Speedboy patriot went 170 mph ) he made a VERY GOOD JOB with many datas to explain the result , I learned much with him and now I learn about your experience too .

I can remember few years ago a friend bought a used patriot and he put "x" engine with "x" prop and "x" rpm and flew at "x" speed after few months he bought another patriot "used too" and he put the same engine with the same prop and having the same rpm the second partiot flew 45kmh faster than the first one and with exactly the same thrust . What I learned with that ....... If we only take the factors pitch and rpm our predicted to obtain speed can be wrong .

In my honest opinion I think we have 3 principal factors power (thrust) , airframe and pilot , whatever that we will change the speed will change ( that supposing flying with the same atmospheric conditions ) even when we are talking about from 2 models with the same name .
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:51 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...



stg61abc thanks for see the video and for take part of your time in this tread

Hey SPEED JUNKIE if you know the secret of your friend to reach that easy 200 mph , please let me know jeje I can't obtain yet [&:] . Anyway If I can break 180 with the "new prop" I'll be very glad

wjvail : take a look to Mike Connor tread ( why Speedboy patriot went 170 mph ) he made a VERY GOOD JOB with many datas to explain the result , I learned much with him and now I learn about your experience too .

I can remember few years ago a friend bought a used patriot and he put "x" engine with "x" prop and "x" rpm and flew at "x" speed after few months he bought another patriot "used too" and he put the same engine with the same prop and having the same rpm the second partiot flew 45kmh faster than the first one and with exactly the same thrust . What I learned with that ....... If we only take the factors pitch and rpm our prediction to obtain speed can be wrong .

In my honest opinion I think we have 3 principal factors power (thrust) , airframe and pilot , whatever that we will change the speed will change ( that supposing flying with the same atmospheric conditions ) even when we are talking about from 2 models with the same name .

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Old 03-06-2008, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Hi Hector, very pleased to be in touch with you my friend!!!!
The video is super, and the plane is wonderful, and the flying impressive. I liked very much the way that you piloted this rocket in a very smooth manner.
I´m very certain that you can IMPROVE even more this speed reading!!
Some pipe tuning and playing with different props (maybe a 9X8 or APC 9X9??) and hotter fuels will give you higher numbers, i bet!! hehehe
Congratulations again by the plane, by the super nice v*deo and accept my best wishes.
from your friend from Brazil

cheers
Sorry by the not so good english
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Rossi's have sooo much power.
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:32 AM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

What RPM will a Jett-50 or Jett-60LX turn a 10x8?

I think Hector's and Mark-5's are two of the best looking patriots I have ever seen, and I have what I think is the largest collection of Patriot pics on the planet-

Much nicer than any of mine [X(]

You guys are motivating me to get flying again...I have my old Patriot and a K&B-Screamin' 48 with an Ultrathrust muffler. Should be at least a fun combo. I need to buy another SJ-50 or 60LX so I can get "dopplered" by Mike Connors also.

I am a skeptic but I love those Rossi's, unloading over 2K is insane!

Cheers!
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Old 03-07-2008, 04:23 AM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

ORIGINAL: tg61asbc

Hi Hector, very pleased to be in touch with you my friend!!!!
The video is super, and the plane is wonderful, and the flying impressive. I liked very much the way that you piloted this rocket in a very smooth manner.
I´m very certain that you can IMPROVE even more this speed reading!!
Some pipe tuning and playing with different props (maybe a 9X8 or APC 9X9??) and hotter fuels will give you higher numbers, i bet!! hehehe
Congratulations again by the plane, by the super nice v*deo and accept my best wishes.
from your friend from Brazil

cheers
Sorry by the not so good english
Hey tg61asbc I'm pleased to be in touch with you too [sm=thumbup.gif] and is very rewarding see your comment to me my friend thanks a lot and thanks for believe that I can improve my speed , you know how motivate me

Today arrived my props 10x10 I'll cut to 9" , shave it and try to make the natural shape of the tips I'll try to make my best job on that props and see what happen once in the air , any thing that will happen I let you know my friend

BTW I think your english is better than mine

um abraço

Only a pic to share (sorry for blurred it was taken with a cellular phone )


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Old 03-07-2008, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Hi Hector, go ahead with the experiments pal!!
I will wait for the results with expectations......
Good luck with the new props, take care of the balancing
What kind of fuel you are using in the Rossi?

Keep us informed on your progress

Fuerte abrazo amigo!!! (o seria abraso???) jejejeje...
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...


ORIGINAL: Razor-RCU

What RPM will a Jett-50 or Jett-60LX turn a 10x8?


I am a skeptic but I love those Rossi's, unloading over 2K is insane!

Cheers!
I suspect that much unloading on the Rossi is because of the dive.

I found this posted by Bob27s in another thread.
-------
Last I tried it, my SJ-50 turned the 10x7 prop pretty well..... up over 16,000 easily on the ground. This is an interesting prop actually.... for some reason many engines prefer the 10x7 to the 10x6. RPM drop is not all that much between the two, and it tends to be quicker in flight.

I seem to recall DaveN noted his preference for the 10x7 as well.

The 60LX engine will get up over 17,000 with the 10x7 after it has been broken and run a bit. Peak of 17,500 is not difficult to achieve. Key is you want to back it off about 600-700 rpm for flight, and it might "fall off" the muffler. That is ok, but it can confuse some people - you have to understand how that works. Thus, we usually do not recommend the 10x7 prop because it keeps the engine on edge of that minimum recommended rpm.... so setting the needle properly is a bit more "important" - (trust in the setting like we do for the Q-500 and QM engines).


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Old 03-07-2008, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

Are these 60 size patriots or the old 40 size?
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...

ORIGINAL: Razor-RCU

What RPM will a Jett-50 or Jett-60LX turn a 10x8?

short answer..... they won't run well with that much prop with the standard muffler.

If you use a full size pipe and tune properly for the rpm, then it is fair game... and figure around 16,500 or so on the ground (guestimate.. i have not found a need to try that setup)

-----------

edit: this project actually answers that question a bit.... big pipe, long tuned. Was originally tuned for an 11x8 at 13,000 rpm.
Intent was a "quiet" setup.
Eventually tweeked for better performance at around 15,000 rpm in flight.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6225716
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Video at Youtube - Patriot at 168 mph from méxico!! plane belong to our friend Hector...


ORIGINAL: z06kal

Are these 60 size patriots or the old 40 size?
The one in the video is a 40 size. I believe all in this thread are the 40 size.
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