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Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

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Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

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Old 05-12-2003, 11:02 PM
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Dustflyer
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

I am building one of the new re-issue Patriots and am thinking of going with a 60 or bigger rather than a 50. I'm not sure a Jett 50 turning a 9 inch prop would give enough thrust. I'm thinking more along the lines of a 60 turning a 10X8.

Just wondering if anyone has any rpm readings on a 10X8. I am thinking along the lines of a Jett 60L or some other brand of 60-76.
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Old 05-13-2003, 12:34 AM
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Default Hmm.

The fastest setup was with a Jett 90 but serious mods were needed
Other than that- the Jett 50 is the fastest combo I think...

You start putting a 60 on it and the weight/ and wing loading go up.... Light+ RPM= speed

What Rpm's does the jett-60 pull?

Best of luck,
james
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Old 05-13-2003, 01:21 AM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default If you had your heart set on a .60....

....you might consider a Rossi, or an OS FSR. With perhaps
more like a 11-7 1/2 MAS. The trick would be too move the firewall back about an inch and a half, and use a long nose
2 1/4 diam....3" long, prop jet type long spinner. Then set it
up as a taildragger. ( heh heh heh )
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:00 AM
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Brian A
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Default ????????

Who makes this jet and is it an arf. I am looking for an arf jet for a 91 fx

Thanks
Brian
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Old 05-14-2003, 02:06 AM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

Well I was looking at the weight of the jett 60L and it's pretty heavy at 17oz but the OS 91FX is only 19oz while the jett 90L is 25oz so the 91fx seems to be a strong combo for the Patriot since the 91fx and 61fx are the same weight. If you plan on getting a 61fx then a 91fx would be better in my mind due to the weight difference being nil and the power being gained.

I am having the same debate for my patriot as well. What engine should I put on it since I want all out speed. I would love ducted fan speed without the price that goes with it but still keep the looks. I know it's hard but I think the Patriot can fill that gap especially with a good engine but which one hum!!!!!

If not then a TGA Interceptor might be in store for the need for speed I have.

Enjoy!
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:44 AM
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Default Im no engine Guru-

The 91FX will have stump-pulling power....But not necessarily the RPM's needed for speed though-

Try a search on "Patriot" and see what happens...

One guy had a Jett-50 and hit 146MPH (I am pretty sure that is what the post said..)

The Tower 75 would revv better than the FX-

Keep us posted,
james
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:35 AM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

The .91Fx looks good on paper....but it's a dog....
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Old 05-14-2003, 11:17 AM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

Humm!!! The jett 50 is 16.5oz while the jett 60L is 17oz which is only .5oz difference. This would mean then that the choice of the 60L would be good since their is a tiny weight gain for more power then the jett 50. The jett90 is quite heavy at 25oz so the 60L seems to be a good choice.

Has anyone run a 60L to know what kind of performance difference their is between the jett 50 and 60L to know if it's worth the change ?

Enjoy!
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:11 PM
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Default 60L (revised)

I have a 60L BSE rear exhaust and have played around with it a little. So far I am turning an APC 10X8 sport at around 15.8 or so on Magnum 15%. I still have a little more pipe tuning to do and still haven't tried some other props.

15.8 sounds pretty darn good for a sport 10X8. Just wondering if any one has done any better with a 60?

Am still considering a 76 or 90 but I would rather try to get more out of my 60 as it is small and light.
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Old 05-14-2003, 02:08 PM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

60L is an engine for Torque pulling heavy planes. Not to rev RPMs for speed. And its not recommended for the Patriot. 50 is the best combo. But if you like to get bigger get the 61 or higher except for L types.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:35 PM
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Default Aha-

Aero runs a Patriot with a Jett 50 I believe...

I have seen his video and hot dammm....

It is not about displacement here it is about weight and RPM's
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:49 PM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

I have a new video... from last weekend at las vegas
link is here....

http://users.adelphia.net/~aerodee79/video/May202003/18A.wmv
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:03 PM
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Default BSE 60L FIRE

Did a little more tweaking and switched to Magnum 15% and am now turning an APC sport 10X8 at 15.8 consistentlywith my BSE 60L FIRE. That's pretty darn good for a 60. RPM is still increasing with cuts on the pipe but I think I would like to try flying the setup as is and see how it unloads before I cut any more.

I have a couple of Jett FIRE 50's but in my opinion they run best with 9" props or less and I'm not sure that will be enough thrust for a Patriot. I could be wrong but for now I'm leaning toward a little more cubes up front.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:22 PM
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Default geeesh

That is good RMP's for a 60- heck for most engines!

Best of luck and be sure to post pics and a flight report-

james
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:39 PM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

Stick a Master Airscrew 10-8 on it, and see what it turns.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:46 PM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

I've tried running a Patriot on APC 9" APC props, and the thrust just isn't enough to overcome the drag and weight. Definitely needs that 10" prop pulling to get those really nice 400-500' loops and relatively short takeoffs.

Blue Skyy
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Old 05-14-2003, 07:07 PM
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Default 10X8

Blue Skyy,

Yep, that's what I figured. Thanks for confirming it for me. You certainly know your way around Patriots!

Flyboy Dave,

It has been my experience that APC's turn more rpm's. Have you compared the two? If the MA is better I will definitely go with it.
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Old 05-14-2003, 11:32 PM
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Default Patriot engine choice, 60 on up...rpm's for a 10X8 anyone?

Has anyone thought about using a rear exhaust engine on the patriot to save on wind resistance and gain some valuable speed. It seems that in the manual they talk about the possiblity of doing this and having the pipe routed internally to the fuse and exhausting around the canopy.

Has anyone tried and do you think that this would allow you to gain enough speed to warrant this change.

Enjoy!
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Old 05-15-2003, 12:41 AM
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Default Exhaust through canopy

Yep, already seen it done on a Patriot. Can't remember what type engine but I think it was a YS 45. The engine was mounted vertically with the header and pipe entering the front of the canopy and enclosed by the turtle deck. I saw it fly. The airplane was fast but nothing outrageous.

With my rear-exhaust Jett 60 I plan to run the pipe along the side of the fuselage like on a Magnum. I really don't think the drag is that big of a deal as the pipe is directly behind the engine.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:28 AM
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Default Dustflyer....

....my experience has been just the opposite....some
guys swear by the APC's....but it seems to me the MAS's
turn faster, give more speed....and more thrust.

example #1....my Cermark .40 size F-20....Rossi .45,
long pipe. Was using a 10-6 APC....revs....14K flat.
Put on a 9 1/2-6 MAS....revs 18,100 static, and now
comes "on the pipe" at 20 plus....speed increase dramatic
about 25 mph.....visible improvement....

example #2....my .60 size Cermark F-20....Tower .75,
didn't tach it....was running an APC 12-6. Probably
abour 12.5K or so....what a slug....was real disappointed
....took forever to break-in, cause it wouldn't spin....Finally
wised up, and tried my favorite .60 sport prop....the
11 71/2 MAS....Good Lord....spinning just over 14K static
and probably 15 unloaded in the air. (stock muffler)

Again....dramatic increase in speed....about 25 mph.
Even a blind man could see the difference....

example #3....my Super Kaos....OS .61 RF Macs pipe....
12-8 Zinger....turning 11.4K (long-stroke) just what Mac's
table said it should turn. Used to be....when you punched
it....all you could do was hang on to the thing.....seemed
like it was way over-powered....was kind of like a dragster
on ice....went straight up unlimited....count to 5....It was
gettin' small.

The wood prop cracked....and all I had was a 12-7 APC.
RPM "seemed" about the same....but the acceleration was
way down (kinda normal....which was boring), the climb
was noticably off....and the speed was down .

If I was lookin' for rpm/speed/thrust out of a hot .60....
I'd first fit an 11-7 MAS.....If you find a better answer,
lemme know....

Dave.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:55 AM
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Default !

Are you serious? I have not used a MA for a looong time-

But I will try them now! Holy crud.... I am tweakin' and twitchin' with 10x6 and 10x7 APC's- On the both MY ASP-46 and my YS-45

Superdave know whats up...On with the Master Airscrews-

Are these the Scimitars or the regular skinny ones?

james
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:30 AM
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Default Yo, James....

....(heh heh heh), some say that the computer generated
"Wiz-Bang" new props are more effecient than "regular"
tried and proven propellers. I'm not sure what
they mean by effecient....

Have you ever looked at the props they run on the real
Reno Racers....? Do you see any curved props, with no
thrust at the tips....? Have you ever seen the props on
a C-130....(turbo-prop)...? Has Cessna and Piper gone
to the new so called "more efficiant props"....? Nope.

I'll tell you what, James....next time you come up here,
we'll run My Rossi F-20 with the 9 1/2-6 MAS at 18K.
Then, we'll take that same 10-6 APC....and shave it
down to a 9 1/2-6....then you'll see....
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:51 AM
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Default I am way behind-

That makes perfect sense to me! Although I am confident that I would never have figured it out- :stupid:

Superdave> YS-45... on my Lanier F-4= 9.5x6? Piped ASP-46 on the Patriot, 9.5x6 also?

Cool- I have a new experiment....

james
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Old 05-15-2003, 04:28 AM
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Default Yes, James....

....the skinny black ones....with the true pitch....almost
all the way out to the tips....

The silly grey ones (especially small ones) are good for
cleaning fingernails....but not for mixing epoxy....

The larger ones....are reportedly good for skinning game.

Dave.
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Old 05-15-2003, 04:50 AM
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Default Prop tip shape

Flyboy Dave - actually the C-130 Hercules and its Allison T-56 engines are 30+ year old technology. The new "J" model Herc has swept scimitar "banana" shaped propeller blades similar to APC, and 5 blades no less! Technology marches on. Yes, many older general aviation aircraft have square tip props - newer technology aircraft usually have more refined prop blades. It does make a difference, but your milieage may vary :^) I prefer APC props but still use Master Airscrew props where ground clearance is an issue - they are much tougher tips! Excellent info about prop shape/design on the APC wbsite...
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