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Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

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Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

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Old 05-20-2003, 12:40 AM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

After seven straight months of cold, gray, rainy weather we finally got a single sunny day out here. Lucky for me the "Master Whiplash Blaster" Syd C. was available to meet me at the NE Philly RC field for the first flight of my Whiplash.

I was fortunate to witness Syd's GPS and radar certified 200mph Whiplash fly. Man, that is one fast bird!

Syd's Whip is powered with the tried and true Jett FIRE 50 with full nitro pipe turning a cut-down APC 8.8 X 9.75 at something over 18,500. He is one awesome pilot that drills that thing 20 feet in front of you five feet off the deck back and forth with boring consistency. It is blistering fast.

After fitting my Whiplash for Syd's bungee-powered launcher we fired up the Jett FIRE BSE 60L and peaked it out at 16,000 turning a big fat APC 10X8 sport prop, backing it off to 15.5 for launch. After refueling we set it up on the launcher and revved it up to full power. It pulled so hard it nearly ripped itself right out of the launcher!

Syd had to hold the tail end of the thing down until I gave him the nod. It fired off that launcher so fast you might as well have fired it out of a howitzer. Launcher? We don't need no stinking launcher! While I didn't have the chance to try it there is no question in my mind I could launch that sucker straight up out of my hand if I wanted to.

Now the fun part. Turning almost 3000 rpm less with nearly two inches less pitch my Whiplash was just as fast as Syd's! Like they say over at Simjet, "In thrust we believe."

There are a lot of ways to skin the old speed cat. In my case I figured the 60L, at the same weight as a 50, would give me that extra added torque to turn a slightly bigger prop to help motivate a 4lb 7oz delta. It worked.

I am thrilled with the 60L. It's a great choice for the Whiplash and should work out great on my Patriot.
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Old 05-20-2003, 03:21 PM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

Great. You think it hit 200 mph? Pictures? Paul
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Old 05-20-2003, 03:55 PM
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Default Photos

Paul,

At this point all I can say is I know what 200 mph looks like. Right before I flew mine I watched my friend Syd fly his Whiplash which has on separate occasions been clocked at over 200 by radar and GPS. If mine wasn't going as fast as his it was pretty darn close.

The big difference is thrust and noise. While I didn't try a hand-launch for the first flight it pulled so hard with the 60L and 10X8 I don't doubt for a minute I could just hold it out in front of me and let it go like my Diamond Dust. I am also using a quiet pipe which, in concert with the 10X8 makes for a much more neighbor friendly and in my opinion, pleasant sound.

Check out that 13 oz 60 and 20" pipe!

I hope to get some radar runs on it next week along with the definite test of hand launch capability.
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Old 05-20-2003, 03:57 PM
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Default Another photo

Here's the high-vis scheme I use on the bottom of my deltas.
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Old 05-20-2003, 04:10 PM
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Default Engine and aircraft specs

16,000 rpm was achieved with a total pipe and header length of 20 inches. This is absolute optimum, I checked it carefully both longer and shorter. Engine unloads very nicely in the air. Prop was APC 10X8 sport. Magnum 15% fuel and KB1L plug. Every other combination of fuel and plug I tried produced less rpm.

Airplane is balanced at extreme aft end of the range, somewhere between 2 1/2 and 3 inches behind front edge of aft cover (I just use my fingers). Elevator throw is 7/16, aileron 3/8, no expo. I'm not a big fan of expo but don't like a touchy feel either. The throws and CG I am using give a very smooth feel in flight and plenty of elevator authority for landing.

The added weight of the Whiplash is a real advantage in dives, it picks up speed fast and keeps its momentum. So far I really like the airplane. The BSE FIRE 60L is super sweet. Now, if I could just get a couple more thousand rpm...
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Old 05-20-2003, 08:15 PM
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Default numbers???????

I have that engine and hope i can get it to run like your. But i guess i still dont get how an 8 inch prop can get to 200 mph without turning 26,500 rpm. The jett 50 with a 9.75 pitch runs 18,500 on the ground and i can see it unloading to 22,000 in the air for 200+mph. But the jett 60 at 15,500 on the ground is not going to come anywhere near 26,500 in the air. Lets be generous and say 21500 in the air (unloading 5000 rpm) that barely gets you to 160 mph. Someone said earlier, to go fast you need more pitch than diameter. Plus you need to turn lots of rpm. My goal by getting the 60 was to turn lots of pitch at lower rpm. I was going to use a 12 pitch at 18,000 to get over 200 mph.
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Old 05-20-2003, 08:48 PM
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Default Speed

I am talking speed out of a dive. The heavy weight of the Whiplash really gets it moving downhill and gives it a lot of momentum when you level off. The 60L unloads a tremendous amount in the air, sounds like at least a thousand or two. Straight and level flight I don't know, but you are right it is not doing 200.

Regarding 12 pitch, you will have a hard time turning that with a 60 unless the diameter is so small you won't have any thrust.

Let me give you an example of how important the right amount of thrust is. Yesterday I also flew my Jett FIRE 50 powered Diamond Dust in two configurations: The first was with a long pipe and 9X10 turning 15.8 and the second with a shorter pipe and an 8.8X9.75 turning 18.8. Want to guess which one was faster? It was the 9X10 turning 15.8 by a noticeable margin!

Theoretical top speed for a given rpm and pitch means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING unless the thrust generated is enough to overcome the drag of the airframe. The theoretical top speed of a Nelson 40 turning umpteen thousand rpm will pull a little RC pylon racer at 200 mph but wouldn't move a full-scale Piper Cub at all.

I should have clarified how these speeds are attained. Whiplashes, Diamond Dusts, Magnums etc. hit their high speeds out of a dive. There is almost no way you could push them to straight and level speeds of 200mph. Maybe with 90 sized ducted fan motors, I don't know. There are some guys working on that right now. We'll just have to wait and see how they make out.
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Old 05-20-2003, 11:35 PM
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Default speed

I have always thought we were doing straight and level flight. Thats what i was doing. I got to about 180 with my nelson q40 on straight and level flight but i think ran out of thrust as you mentioned. That prop was under 7.2 inch diameter. I put a nelson q500 on it and put the q40 on the whiplash extreme which is over a pound lighter. I still have jett 50 and jett 60 and jett q500 to try. Hope to try them all.
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Old 05-22-2003, 11:19 PM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

Dustflyer,

Here's a little more speed tip for your current Whiplash with the Jett 60L...

Instead of using a 10x8 prop, go with the APC D-1 hub 9.5X8.5N (part # LP09585) racing prop, which should give you even more speed with almost the same amount of thrust without having to retune the engine/pipe combo. Although, you can fine tune it even further to get more rpm from the 60L. This prop will definately give you both the speed and thrust that you're looking for.

Here's a link to the prop mentioned...

http://www.apcprop.com/store/agora.c...1145&ppinc=apc


Hope this help!
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Old 05-22-2003, 11:42 PM
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Default Prop

Sam,

Hi! Good to hear from you again!

Is that the really thick hub? I actually have a bunch of those but the hub is so thick there was not enough prop shaft sticking through on my 60L to screw the spinner on to so I never was able to try them out.

Actually, I have played around with those props quite a bit on my Diamond Dust. Every time I tried one of those props on my Jett 50 powered Dust I didn't really go any faster at least to my eye. Its seems on delta types the good old fashion APC sport prop works best for me.

I don't doubt what you are saying. Obviously those props are made for a reason. I just think pylon racers are a different animal. Frankly they are smaller, slicker and a lot faster than Diamond Dusts etc.

To be honest I really don't know why us Whiplash/Diamond Dust types don't just go out out and start flying pylon racers instead?
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Old 05-23-2003, 12:08 AM
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Default Pylon racer

Sam, got a question for you.

Is there a decent looking pylon racer we can go out and buy and bolt a user friendly Jett 50 on to? I'm not talking about Quickies. I realize some guys don't like "UFO looking" deltas but in my case I don't like the looks of "book shelf on a 2X4" Quickies.

If there was some cool looking pylon racer available that didn't take a lot of specialized skills to put together it might make a real fun alternative to the delta stuff and just might be a lot faster. Landing gear would be a major plus too!
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Old 05-23-2003, 01:58 AM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

Dustflyer,

Have you tried a 9x10 on your Jett 60/Whiplash?

Paul
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Old 05-23-2003, 11:25 AM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

Dustflyer,

I have an almost completely built F1 ( I think) plane I would be willing to sell. Let me know if you are interested, I could meet you in the Princeton area so you could check it out.

Mark M
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Old 05-23-2003, 11:59 AM
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Default 9X10

Paul,

The 60L is a long stroke motor made for torque. It doesn't turn a 9X10 much better than the 50. It does best with 10 and 11 inch props. Next thing I want to do is stretch out the pipe a bit and see what it will do with a 10X9, maybe cutting the tips a little.

I bought the 60L to use in my Patriot figuring a 9X10 prop on a 50 would be way too small. Bob Holmes in fact confirmed it would be. Just for kicks I thought I'd try the 60 out on my Whiplash. I think it is the perfect motor for that plane because the added thrust really gets it moving. I know it seems strange but it goes about the same speed in level flight and out of a dive with a 10X8 turning 16 as it does with a clipped down 8.8X9.75 turning 18.5. The big difference is thrust. I haven't tried it yet but I think I could easily hand launch it with that motor.

The problem with real small props and heavy or larger airplanes is the prop just cavitates. Try putting a 35,000 rpm Nelson on a 33% Extra. How fast do you think you will go?

I really like the 60L and Whiplash but now I've gone crazy for more power. I'm putting a Jett 90L BSE FIRE on my Patriot. I'd stuff it into my Whiplash if I could but I don't think there's enough meat on the engine mount to do it.

My secret inside information tells me the 90 will turn a 10X10 something on the order of 16K on 15% nitro. Just for comparison an OS 91FX only turns about 13K on the same prop! I think the Jett 90 will get my Patriot moving real nice!
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Old 05-23-2003, 03:54 PM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

Talking about prop hub thickness...

I just noticed something strange yesterday: the hub of an APC 8x8 sport prop is thicker than the hub of an APC 8x10 sport prop... why is this so? Is there a reason for this?

Also, will is be safe to run this prop (8x10) on my West Eurotec .50 engine? Unloading out of a dive it will reach rpm levels over 20K... and that hub does look very thin...

The hub of the 8x10 has C-2 printed on it, just like the 8x8, does this automatically mean this prop is suited for these rpm levels?


By the way... prop cavitation happens on boats...in water... on our planes it is called a stalled prop...
Even a 8" pitch prop will be stalled in a static situation at the rpms we're running... as soon as the plane starts to move a little it will be ok though...
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Old 05-23-2003, 04:53 PM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

quoted by dustflyer:

"To be honest I really don't know why us Whiplash/Diamond Dust types don't just go out out and start flying pylon racers instead?"

We'd love to have you. Speed is great, but its even funner with 4 planes going the same speed around 3 pylons.
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Old 05-23-2003, 06:58 PM
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Default Racing

Dave,

I agree with you. I used to fool around with slot cars quite a bit and you are right, it is ten times more fun racing than just practicing.

The problem is I don't think there are any pylon races around here and I really don't like driving for hours to get to them. I'm just not that motivated.

I just thought it would be interesting to see what a pylon racer would do with something like a user friendly Jett 50. Might be a lot of fun to play with. I don't know anything about how they are built or what kind of materials. I'm not real good at exotic building techniques, that's why I had someone build my HotSpot jet for me. If it was something all built that someone could adapt a Jett 50 for me I might take a look at it.
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Old 05-23-2003, 08:05 PM
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Default Dustflyer's Whiplash Flies! Brutally fast w/ Jett FIRE 60L! Updated specs

Dustflyer...

Most pylon planes these days don't take much building.... they are built...
The building techniques involved are way beyond the scope of the average modeler... CNC machined wing molds and stuff like that...

If you buy an F3D plane... it basically comes down to bolting your engine to it, cutting the cowl to suit your engine and installing radio gear... very basic stuff...I'm sure you could pull it off...

The only thing to be concerned about is weight... compare the weight of that Jett to the weight of a Nelson F3D engine... if it isn't that much heavier (or lighter for that matter) and you can get it fitted to the firewall, go for it.

You will have to run an unmuffled power pipe however, because the muffler section of a muffled pipe is probably too long to fit into the fuse...
Come to think of it... that might be your biggest problem... getting that big fat long pipe (because it is tuned for lower rpm) to fit into the plane.

As for flying... these things fly very well... sometimes they fly too well... getting them down on a landing can be tricky... they float forever and bleed off very little airspeed...
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Old 05-23-2003, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Pylon racer

Originally posted by Dustflyer
Sam, got a question for you.

Is there a decent looking pylon racer we can go out and buy and bolt a user friendly Jett 50 on to? I'm not talking about Quickies. I realize some guys don't like "UFO looking" deltas but in my case I don't like the looks of "book shelf on a 2X4" Quickies.

If there was some cool looking pylon racer available that didn't take a lot of specialized skills to put together it might make a real fun alternative to the delta stuff and just might be a lot faster. Landing gear would be a major plus too!
Dustflyer,

Yes, there is. But that depend on how much money you want to spend.

Personally, I would recommend you get the Kanke F3D/30 for high speed fun flying. The kit (ARF) is basically similar to the Quarter Midget .40 that race in the JR Gold Cup series in the NMPRA, and have similiar dimension to it as well. Although this plane is not legal, but it make a nice speed plane for weekend warrior, and it's cheap (less than $150), done and ready to go. All you do is bolt the engine and radio gears and you're done. However, the engine mount is for small Jett .30 to .40L and OS 25-32FX. For the bigger engine, you want to get the electric version instead of glow because the mount is not yet installed. With the electric version, you have to put a firewall and add your own engine mount in there to accommodate the bigger .40-60L Jett.

Check out this link and look for ARF section on the F3D/30 ...
http://www.kangkeusa.com/
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Old 05-23-2003, 10:47 PM
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Default F1 plane

Mark,

Sounds interesting but it would have to nearly turn key for me to fool with it. I wouldn't be interested in it any time soon; however, as I am buildling a Patriot, fooling with my Whiplash and will very shortly have a new Clipped Wing Dust to play with. While all that's going on I'm trying to find time to fly my 35% WH Giles and sneak in a few flights with the HotSpot jet you see in that little photo on the left. All this while chasing after my 1 1/2 year old girl and 5 year old boy in spite of my creaky 50 year old bones.

Once I get my daughter in pre-school I hope to have more time, God willing.

If we get a decent day next week I hope to meet Syd out at Downstown to clock my Whip and Dust on radar. Are you located anywhere around there? I'd really like to get together.
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Old 05-23-2003, 10:52 PM
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Default 8X10

Rudeboy,

I tried one of those props on my Jett FIRE 50 powered Dust. It's the same thing you are talking about, narrow C-2 hub. I turned over 18,000 with it I believe, can't remember the exact number. Didn't have a problem but my Dust seemed slower than with the 9X10 turning between 15.5 and 16.

Was just wondering about those F3 planes you are talking about. Do you have any web sites of plane manufacturers I could check out? Like I was saying to Mark, I've got too much on my plate right now but would like to get familiar with the planes.
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Old 05-23-2003, 10:55 PM
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Default Pylon racers

Sam,

Thanks. Got the same question I had for Rudeboy. Are there any other web sites of race plane manufacturers and builders I could check out?
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Old 05-23-2003, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: Prop

Originally posted by Dustflyer
Sam,

Is that the really thick hub? I actually have a bunch of those but the hub is so thick there was not enough prop shaft sticking through on my 60L to screw the spinner on to so I never was able to try them out.
Hi Dustlyer,

Yes, those are the really thick hub, but I'm not sure if we're talking the exact same prop's here. As you know, all APC racing props have thick hubs for safety reasons so it's hard to say which is which.

As for the prop shaft, call Dub Jett up and ask him for the longer shaft for your engine. It's available, but you have to ask Dub for it. Dub have a lot of accessories that's not listed on the web site, but if your ask the right question's, he will let you know.

Going back to the speed thing... Based on the weight of your Whiplash, the APC 9.5X8.5N will be the best choice for both speed and thrust. Now, if you plane weight 6 lb., I would not recommend it. Try it, you'll know what I mean.

Hope this help a little more!
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Old 05-23-2003, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Pylon racers

Originally posted by Dustflyer
Sam,

Thanks. Got the same question I had for Rudeboy. Are there any other web sites of race plane manufacturers and builders I could check out?
Dustflyer,

This link would be your best info to race planes. Check it out. There are plenty of planes/kits there.
http://www.nmpra.com/pylonworld/rc_p...-40_planes.htm
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Old 05-23-2003, 11:21 PM
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Default Prop

Sam,

OK, sounds good. I will get a longer prop shaft from Dubb and try it out!
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