I found a new beast
09-14-2008, 07:09 PM
#27
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RE: I found a new beast
I used both the traditional and a hybrid Uniflow that has worked fantastically in the past on planes that I use for training/open house day and my Goldberg Tiger II, but lets face it they don’t pull the G’s like the Mustang does.
The Uniflow system that I use uses two check valves, one that allows muffler pressure to enter the tank via the second forward clunk and the other valve allows the tank to vent excess pressure from the top of the tank so that after you let off the throttle the mixture won’t be over rich in the low or mid range.
The traditional Uniflow system was a bit better for high G’s but not enough in my case.
Both systems let the engine run at a very stable full throttle mixture under normal circumstances from full to empty.
I should have know better, when I look at all the planes that pull insane G’s like the Diamond dust ( rear intake) Viper and outlaw (horizontal), all have their carbs centered with the tanks.
Pictured:
The upright leg on the black “T” is to muffler. The center on the red “T” is my fill line, just make sure the carb is fully closed when filling or empting.
The Uniflow system that I use uses two check valves, one that allows muffler pressure to enter the tank via the second forward clunk and the other valve allows the tank to vent excess pressure from the top of the tank so that after you let off the throttle the mixture won’t be over rich in the low or mid range.
The traditional Uniflow system was a bit better for high G’s but not enough in my case.
Both systems let the engine run at a very stable full throttle mixture under normal circumstances from full to empty.
I should have know better, when I look at all the planes that pull insane G’s like the Diamond dust ( rear intake) Viper and outlaw (horizontal), all have their carbs centered with the tanks.
Pictured:
The upright leg on the black “T” is to muffler. The center on the red “T” is my fill line, just make sure the carb is fully closed when filling or empting.
09-15-2008, 07:36 PM
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RE: I found a new beast
Then it will run rich in high G turns, and a standard header would run right into the LE of the wing if inverted. Macs was and still is out of the center line headers for my engine that would bring the pipe right over the left wing for inverted engine.
I did try a MA 11X7 S-2 and it was nowhere near enough prop, it tacked 16800 on the ground and the blade tips screemed in the air. It was way slower than the APC 10X9 but it was funny how fast it could go strait up.
Going to pick up some 12X7-8 and 11x8-9 APC and or MA next time I'm near the HS.
I did try a MA 11X7 S-2 and it was nowhere near enough prop, it tacked 16800 on the ground and the blade tips screemed in the air. It was way slower than the APC 10X9 but it was funny how fast it could go strait up.
Going to pick up some 12X7-8 and 11x8-9 APC and or MA next time I'm near the HS.
09-15-2008, 10:32 PM
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RE: I found a new beast
I have been surprised by the performance of the MA S-2 series props, I have found that sometimes they fit right in between two APC sizes. Their efficiency is excellent. For instance on a Goldberg Tiger II with an OS 55 AX w/Ultrathust the APC 11X7 was too much and the 11X6 not enough but the MA 11X7 S-2 was obviously faster and climbed better as well. Very little Bolly is stocked around here, besides, I like supporting My local manufactures like Master Airscrew, APC and Mac's Products.
09-15-2008, 11:01 PM
#32
RE: I found a new beast
FF, if the cylinder is oriented outboard of the tank for those High G turns, that will help. Just ask anyone who used to fly slow combat with those chicken hopper tanks.
In your case, the engine would need to be mounted upside down or you'll just have to learn to run the course inverted.
In your case, the engine would need to be mounted upside down or you'll just have to learn to run the course inverted.
09-16-2008, 12:01 AM
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RE: I found a new beast
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
In your case, the engine would need to be mounted upside down or you'll just have to learn to run the course inverted.
In your case, the engine would need to be mounted upside down or you'll just have to learn to run the course inverted.
09-16-2008, 12:11 AM
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RE: I found a new beast
Hay, I wonder if they would DQ or black flag me for flying the race inverted. Yup, they even get PO'ed if someone does a victory roll after the race. Betcha I could do it, but not on race day.
11-03-2008, 12:26 AM
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RE: I found a new beast
The inverted engine is by far the way to go. This was a great success!
I got a new cowling and a new “down under” header from Macs. The tuned pipe ended up about ¼” over the wing with no loss of lift on that side. I removed about half of the right thrust at this time as well. The carb was turned so the needles were angled to the rear and it had a better angle for the throttle lineage too. The bottom of the fuel inlet boss was ground back a bit to clear the head of the header screw so the carb could be turned.
The cowling had 3 layers of extra glass added on the bottom to give strength to what was left behind the spinner and behind the head. The “smile” inlet was blocked so only the air needed was allowed in. The extra clearance notches around the high and mid range needles allow access to the idle screw, carb clamp and front header cap screw.
The engine ran very consistent from start to finish. The carb was now lower than the center line of the fuel tank and I found that the engine was set at its optimum when it was test flown with a ¼ filled tank and the high speed needle was leaned out just to the point you can’t hear a rich crackle in the high G turns.
The engine ran cool, starts easy,glow plugs last and the plane has less oil to clean off than before.
The main thing to watch for is hydro-lock. As I filled the tank I watch line to the pressure tap to see when it’s full as some fuel gets in the pipe. What I didn’t realize my helper/caller may have lower the front of the plane when bringing it out to engine starting area.
So in the future I will raise the nose to get any fuel in the pipe past the muffler baffles if it is to be moved after fueling.
The other thing to realize is it is so much quieter with the muffled tuned pipe than the guys running the open header YS 110 engines, you can’t hear if your engine is running with 3 other race planes ready to start. An un-muffled tuned pipe would be better for this reason if you plan to race it.
Well I did my first race with it and it was quite fun and I learned a lot. I’m kind of a lone wolf speed freak and rarely does any one want to be in the sky with me. When there is someone else in the air at the same time with me, I try not to crowd them,……. totally the opposite of warbird racing, so it took me a while to get uses to this.
The first heat I jumped the start and got black flagged. The second heat I started from the rear and never could get though the wall of bobbing planes ahead of me so I tried to go around… never did….last place. The third heat I crossed the start line second, just behind Tommygun with his YS 110 powered Critical Mass. I passed him on the second lap and by the fifth lap I was almost a half a lap in the lead at which point my caller said that Tommy is usually just inside of breakout and that I may want to think about slowing it down a bit.
I started taking the turns wider but I was still holding the same lead. The caller said “last lap” so I went waaaay long on the last pylon. Still too far ahead as I came in front of the pylon so I went to idle and putted across the finish line just ahead of Tommy and the roaring pack to take the win of that heat.
The plane is very competitive in silver class with the OS 70 heli engine. There may be more speed to find as I’m still running a 10X9 APC, but you must remember the YS 110’s have ½ more horse power at a more prop efficient lower RPM.
I got a new cowling and a new “down under” header from Macs. The tuned pipe ended up about ¼” over the wing with no loss of lift on that side. I removed about half of the right thrust at this time as well. The carb was turned so the needles were angled to the rear and it had a better angle for the throttle lineage too. The bottom of the fuel inlet boss was ground back a bit to clear the head of the header screw so the carb could be turned.
The cowling had 3 layers of extra glass added on the bottom to give strength to what was left behind the spinner and behind the head. The “smile” inlet was blocked so only the air needed was allowed in. The extra clearance notches around the high and mid range needles allow access to the idle screw, carb clamp and front header cap screw.
The engine ran very consistent from start to finish. The carb was now lower than the center line of the fuel tank and I found that the engine was set at its optimum when it was test flown with a ¼ filled tank and the high speed needle was leaned out just to the point you can’t hear a rich crackle in the high G turns.
The engine ran cool, starts easy,glow plugs last and the plane has less oil to clean off than before.
The main thing to watch for is hydro-lock. As I filled the tank I watch line to the pressure tap to see when it’s full as some fuel gets in the pipe. What I didn’t realize my helper/caller may have lower the front of the plane when bringing it out to engine starting area.
So in the future I will raise the nose to get any fuel in the pipe past the muffler baffles if it is to be moved after fueling.
The other thing to realize is it is so much quieter with the muffled tuned pipe than the guys running the open header YS 110 engines, you can’t hear if your engine is running with 3 other race planes ready to start. An un-muffled tuned pipe would be better for this reason if you plan to race it.
Well I did my first race with it and it was quite fun and I learned a lot. I’m kind of a lone wolf speed freak and rarely does any one want to be in the sky with me. When there is someone else in the air at the same time with me, I try not to crowd them,……. totally the opposite of warbird racing, so it took me a while to get uses to this.
The first heat I jumped the start and got black flagged. The second heat I started from the rear and never could get though the wall of bobbing planes ahead of me so I tried to go around… never did….last place. The third heat I crossed the start line second, just behind Tommygun with his YS 110 powered Critical Mass. I passed him on the second lap and by the fifth lap I was almost a half a lap in the lead at which point my caller said that Tommy is usually just inside of breakout and that I may want to think about slowing it down a bit.
I started taking the turns wider but I was still holding the same lead. The caller said “last lap” so I went waaaay long on the last pylon. Still too far ahead as I came in front of the pylon so I went to idle and putted across the finish line just ahead of Tommy and the roaring pack to take the win of that heat.
The plane is very competitive in silver class with the OS 70 heli engine. There may be more speed to find as I’m still running a 10X9 APC, but you must remember the YS 110’s have ½ more horse power at a more prop efficient lower RPM.
11-03-2008, 01:55 AM
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RE: I found a new beast
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Nice Job! Looks 1000% better, too. I'm glad to hear that you are being successful going against the grain with the 2 stroker. Is the "breakout" where you get booted up to a higher class?
Nice Job! Looks 1000% better, too. I'm glad to hear that you are being successful going against the grain with the 2 stroker. Is the "breakout" where you get booted up to a higher class?
Thanks, I think it does look better too. I was going to mount it horizontal, but it would be so ugly I just couldn't make myself do it.
11-03-2008, 02:45 AM
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RE: I found a new beast
glad to hear it works out i try to mount all my mustang engine inverted. i just got a PM strega for the club here in vacaville. dont think its leagal to race with you guys but it was cheap and i need something for the 60 lx. i do have a hanger nine p-51 60 size that i am thinking of putting a saito 220 on to race up there with you guys. i think the rules say over 700sq I can use up to a 2.4 engine. It wouldnt be gold speed but i think silver maybe. its close to 110 with the OS 120, so i am thinking maybe 130-135 with the 220 and 40%
11-03-2008, 04:36 AM
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RE: I found a new beast
[quote]ORIGINAL: freakingfast
[quote]ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Nice Job! Looks 1000% better, too. I'm glad to hear that you are being successful going against the grain with the 2 stroker. Is the "breakout" where you get booted up to a higher class?
Direct thanks to the Luvara Bros. Complaining to the A.M.A. for getting unlimited racing in the SAC area shut down CIRCA 2003.
11-10-2008, 09:01 PM
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RE: I found a new beast
ORIGINAL: lfinney
you could also try one of macs marine pipes, such as the 8.5 cc model its their serious go fast pipes
you could also try one of macs marine pipes, such as the 8.5 cc model its their serious go fast pipes
The problem is the header is as short as I can make it and the 11 cc pipe has more volume than the 8.5 cc muffled thats on it now.
even if I cut the pipe down, the coupling would be way up on the taper in order to get it to tune. David of Macs offered to reform the taper back for a different project of mine, so I may try it for giggles another time.
David didn't seem to think the 11cc would help on the OS 70, I asked, then again he acted surprised at my working RPM and 30% fuel.
Top is a Macs 11cc muffled marine pipe.
The bottom is a Macs 8.5 muffled aero pipe just like the one on the Stang. It has a strait section in the area between the dark band and the pressure fitting.
