Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

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Old 10-20-2008, 10:41 AM
  #1  
dithersail
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Default Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Hi All,

Was planning to build a US 40 this winter, already have a US 60 (that I have posted elsewhere on RCU about) that I am smitten with. She's got a OS 91FS Surpass, Spektrum and digital servos. She's a good girl, moves along smartly but not scarily. I normally am a minimally competent 3D pilot, so I have been forcing myself to fly pattern to improve my overall flying style.

So I wanted to make the US 40 a screaming demon with a wicked engine and pipe.

Don't have the kit yet, but engine choice was decided for me last night when I bought a Sport Jett 60LX at auction.

So before I order the plane and parts, here is how I propose to set it up.

1. Dave Brown retracts (what would you use?)
2. Hitec 5245MG digital minis at 6V. (76 oz in at 6V). I have these in another plane and really like them. (enough torque?)
3. Spektrum receiver lipo and regulator(of course)
4. Flaps?

I plan on modifying the plane a bit. I am thinking I will put the servos near the control surfaces mounted externally (think your typical 3D plane) to save the weight of pushrods. I did this in my US 60 for the ailerons. Plan to do this for all surfaces on the 40.

Going to do some lightening as well. Contest balsa where it would make a difference.

In summary, I want it to go like heck but maintain it's excellent pattern characteristics.

If you were building this plane, what would you do? Help make this demon terrify all who draw near. Thanks for your suggestions.


Dither








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Old 10-20-2008, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX


ORIGINAL: dithersail
Don't have the kit yet, but engine choice was decided for me last night when I bought a Sport Jett 60LX at auction.
Dither
Ah, that was you I was bidding against, was it?

Enjoy! Prop it and run it as per Jett's instructions - if this is your first Jett. If not you know what to do.

MJD
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:18 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

The ultra-sports fly pretty darn well as designed. Lightening is ok here and there .. but I would not mess with much else. The standard radio installation location and pushrod setup works fine - weight is quite reasonable ... but that is up to you.

Outboard aileron servos if you desire. Doing this would allow better fit for a mechanical retract servo on center.

Retracts - limited space in the US 40 look toward the smaller size Spring Air gear. Browns are very good, just may be a bit big physically for the installation... you will have to do a fit-check. Hobbico type gear will work fairly well too.

Servos noted are fine - best way to save weight is on the servos.

Plane does not need flaps (unless for novilty only).

If you are installing the 60LX in there, plan on installing a bubble-jett fuel tank, or a Tetra tank. Just avoid a fuel system problem beforehand. The stock conventional tank will work, but its a tight install - not a lot of room to properly pad the tank.

Side mount the engine - rotate above/below 90deg rotation as needed to make sure the muffler clears the fuselage - you do not want to add any muffler extensions on a 60LX engine. Carve the fuselage to clear where needed.

One other options, mount the engine rotated with the cylinder down about 30 degress - so the muffler ends up on the bottom and aligned down the belly centerline - you can carve a muffler tunnel into the chin block and partially tuck-away the muffler.

As I always advise folks.... especially with second-hand engines.... put the engine on a good test stand first. Bolt on a 9x8 prop and run it. Learn how it operates, what the rpm range is, and learn the best mixture position (on this engine 600-800 rpm off of ground peak rpm).

Bob
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Old 10-20-2008, 01:18 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Just be aware and take flutter precautions. The US 40's can be flutter prone at high speeds if not built corrently.
As far as you HS 5245's , I use them on turbines for rud and ele and dont have any issues. They should be more than enough for the US.

cody
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:23 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX


Ah, that was you I was bidding against, was it?


LOL!

Yea that was me - First Jett, yes. The details of the auction were kind of sketchy. It implied the engine was new and the picture looked like it hadn't been run. No time to ask questions though (I noticed the auction late 45 mins left to go- Jetts rarely come up on ebay I have noticed). So I went for it. If it's junk then I will send it back (the auction listing did say I could send it back within 7 days) and you can have a laugh at my expense. If it's new as I suspect then $200 is a good deal obviously. Sorry if whomever sold the engine to me looks at RCU and finds this post, no offense implied or meant.
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Thanks for the suggestions.

You mean these hobbico retracts? I'd like to go with a servo driven one, the spring air ones are pricey.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL407&P=7

I thought the flaps were superfluous. I don't have a plane with them and don't like throwing too many switches during flight anyhow.

Hmm. I have a Tetra bladder tank in my OMP Fusion. I like it, and it totally prevents foaming (it has a saito 125 on it). I would think would be a hassle to fill when you can't see the tank though. Do you think it will foam up with the Jett if I use a standard tank?

Yes, the muffler setup sounds similar to what I had in mind. I have seen other club members pipes set up that way. Burying it in the chin block is a good idea, it will look clean and improve airflow.

The motor - I am keeping my fingers crossed. See my previous post.

Thanks!



ORIGINAL: bob27s

The ultra-sports fly pretty darn well as designed. Lightening is ok here and there .. but I would not mess with much else. The standard radio installation location and pushrod setup works fine - weight is quite reasonable ... but that is up to you.

Outboard aileron servos if you desire. Doing this would allow better fit for a mechanical retract servo on center.

Retracts - limited space in the US 40 look toward the smaller size Spring Air gear. Browns are very good, just may be a bit big physically for the installation... you will have to do a fit-check. Hobbico type gear will work fairly well too.

Servos noted are fine - best way to save weight is on the servos.

Plane does not need flaps (unless for novilty only).

If you are installing the 60LX in there, plan on installing a bubble-jett fuel tank, or a Tetra tank. Just avoid a fuel system problem beforehand. The stock conventional tank will work, but its a tight install - not a lot of room to properly pad the tank.

Side mount the engine - rotate above/below 90deg rotation as needed to make sure the muffler clears the fuselage - you do not want to add any muffler extensions on a 60LX engine. Carve the fuselage to clear where needed.

One other options, mount the engine rotated with the cylinder down about 30 degress - so the muffler ends up on the bottom and aligned down the belly centerline - you can carve a muffler tunnel into the chin block and partially tuck-away the muffler.

As I always advise folks.... especially with second-hand engines.... put the engine on a good test stand first. Bolt on a 9x8 prop and run it. Learn how it operates, what the rpm range is, and learn the best mixture position (on this engine 600-800 rpm off of ground peak rpm).

Bob
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Oh and Bob If it needs a liner and piston assembly I'll give you guys a call. It may be worth it to fix rather than sending it back - I should open it up before I run it to check it out? I have read posts (and your reply's) regarding liner peel if a Jett is not properly broken in.

I have noticed that your company (and you in particular) really monitor all the boards. Excellent customer service!



As I always advise folks.... especially with second-hand engines.... put the engine on a good test stand first. Bolt on a 9x8 prop and run it. Learn how it operates, what the rpm range is, and learn the best mixture position (on this engine 600-800 rpm off of ground peak rpm).

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Old 10-20-2008, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

if you use a syringe or a Jett tanker - you do not have to see the fuel tank. We fill the racing planes this way, and I use the same device for a few of the sport planes too. Draw all of the air out.... fill..... and you can "feel" when the tank is full.

Is it going to foam the fuel? Impossible to tell really. But we do know that the 60LX really cranks out some energy into the airframe, even more so than the SJ-50 does.

The jett liner will not peel. What is at risk in the break-in is the connecting rod actually, and since Dub runs the engine before shipping that is a very low risk on the user's end. Mechanical damage is the only way to hurt the liner (debris, rust, sand, metal in the engine) which can score the liner wall. Even that is rare. Extraordinary over-heatingWorst that happens if you run in improperly will be damage to the aluminum piston.

I'd suggest pulling the backplate and looking inside for rusted bearings or a rusted crankshaft. That is what we see as the most common issue with used engines.... not run right, run hot, not run dry after use, and not oiled up for storage.

Head button, liner and piston are a matched set. You need all 3 for replacement. When Dub does the service, he often will salvage the sleeve and fit a new head and piston.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

this sounds like a great project.

I currently fly a lot of pattern, flying 2m's with YS 160s.

But my weekend kick around plane is a US 40 with a YS 45 on a mac pipe. I can turn a 9x9 apc at over 16,000 on the ground, I also fly it with a 10x7 with some really high rpms as well. Seems like the speed is about the same - really fast.

My US 40 is about 15 years old, and I have been flying it on and off over the years, I've been flying it a lot lately. It's just a pure blast to fly, 30 ft take off run, pull to vertical and roll till you can barely see it. nose over and dive to the end of the runway, all the time at full throttle. pull up level and do a runway buzz at 5 feet at over 100 mph.... and repeat - I can do that all day long, throwing in inverted , rolling and knife edge passes, then break into the the AMA pattern, I've done both advance and intermediate ama patterns with the US.

The US 40 really tracks well at speed, does all your basic pattern stuff well, rolls well, knifes well, snaps like mad dog, just be careful deadstick as it will fool you and you could lose too much airspeed and dump it. but they do glide well just keep the nose down until lined up on final.

I have a pull-pull ruder and split elevator pushrod ( the old fashion wooden dowel pushrod and 2-56 pushrods like a fork). no flutter with with basic 2-56 hardware, just good clean hinges and no gaps, everything is nice and tight.

the YS 45 is a side exhaust - is at a angle to put the pipe right down the bottom of the fuse. It's a non-retract taildragger, I've got a JR PCM rec. 7.4 v lipo pack and reg. and some 4131 JR servos.

I do think the Jett would be an awesome choice and even faster

If you want I can post up some pics of my set ups.

You will have a blast, I am currently finishing a hot rod super kaos 60 with a ys 60 and pipe.

good luck, Dean


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Old 10-21-2008, 12:07 AM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Hanglider your US sounds sweet! Yes I would like to see some pics if you can post them - engine mounting esp with the pipe on the underside.

A friend has a Kaos he built years ago with a piped Rossi. Makes a joyful noise and the doppler shift as if flies by you 5 feet off the deck is considerable.


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Old 10-21-2008, 12:17 AM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Bob I'll pull the backplate off when I get it in a few days and see what I find I'm sure it is OK. I've had to replace the bearings on my Saito 82, but that is my fault. I ran that engine hard, hot and put it away wet while I was learning 3D on a Tufflight 4D. More like a lawn dart than a plane some of the time. Many gallons of 30% fuel, countless props and she still fires up first flick. Took 3 years to destroy the first set, no doubt the ones Jett uses are better. I digress.

I'll report back when I get it.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:19 AM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

been there, done that. bob is right. forget the flaps and for sure go w/ the bubbless tank. even with a lot of foam i had bubble problems. i also put my elevator, and rudder servo at the rear of the plane. it is a nose heavy plane. ca everything in reach. never had a flutter problem w/ the stock hardware. might want to glass the wing together. i did `use a 1/4" muffler ext to clear the fuselage. also used a thin piece of foam behind the remote needle. been flying this combo for about 2 years. nice combo and different.
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX


ORIGINAL: dithersail
LOL!

Yea that was me - First Jett, yes. If it's new as I suspect then $200 is a good deal obviously.
If it's new it is a fantastic deal, and if it is not new and runs properly it is still a great deal. I would have bid a little higher but I am still reeling from the shock of winning a few engine auctions in the last month. So you have fun with it..!

MJD
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX


dithersale:

You are going to love that 60LX, idles, transitions and gives rpm like no other out there. Be sure to follow Bob's fuel tank instructions. In addition, locate the remote needle off the engine on the airframe fuse. This helps reduce the bubble/vibration problem that is associated with the 60LX, learned this from Dub and Bob. Try one of the Jett bubbleless tanks, I prefer them over the tetra as they do not induce a lot of back pressure as some of the tetras do. The internal bladder of the Jett is a high quality plastic so you don't get a varring fuel lilne pressure from the start, creating a false rich mixture appearance then going lean. Have never had a Jett tank go bad, quality is very good. The US 40 Jett combo should be outstanding. You can slow that 60 down as much as you want without any problms. I quit flying the US when the ARF with the plastic nose came out, perfer building the balsa nose, is sleaker and stronger. ENJOY
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Old 10-24-2008, 05:19 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Here's some pics of my US40. With YS 45. It's built stock with pull pull rudder and spilt elevators on dual pushrods.

good luck with yours....
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:33 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX


ORIGINAL: handglider

Here's some pics of my US40. With YS 45. It's built stock with pull pull rudder and spilt elevators on dual pushrods.

good luck with yours....
Is it closeup optics trickery or do you have steerable right main gear?

MJD
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

I'm thinking about the same plane for my winter project. I already have a OS 55 AX but I'm not sure that is going to do what I want with the stock muffler. I NEED to break 100 mph! I know that this isn't the best choice for a speed plane but I love the way it flies. Does anybody think my 55 will be fast enough or would I need a better engine?
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:09 AM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX


ORIGINAL: kwhite.6

I'm thinking about the same plane for my winter project. I already have a OS 55 AX but I'm not sure that is going to do what I want with the stock muffler. I NEED to break 100 mph! I know that this isn't the best choice for a speed plane but I love the way it flies. Does anybody think my 55 will be fast enough or would I need a better engine?
I think you can break 100 mph with the .55 ( on a dive ) , If I were you I woud put retracts and tail dragger configuration to reduce drag . My first choice prop would be 10x9 for that combination .

Add a tuned pipe system is a good option in almost all cases , a friend of mine is running his O.S. .55 @ 14,000 RPM with 10x9 APC and tuned pipe . The only thing is we need to wait and see how much will last that engine running at those RPM .



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Old 10-31-2008, 07:28 AM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Would a ST51 be better with a pipe or the OS55 ? Or should I just get the 60 size US and a ST G90 with a pipe? I have A ST51 and a OS55 that I would like to use in something.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

which ever size you go with get a Jett pipe instead of the full pipe. the Jett is alot easier to mount than a full pipe.

The OS 55 and Jett red pipe is a very good combo. also if you have someone that can change the timing for you ask them if they can time it for the Jett muffler/pipe
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:21 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

What is involved in changing timing? I read that Bob got a good boost with the red pipe and a 10x7 prop. Is there anything worth doing to the kit to make it faster and still fly good. Will use retracts and may leave the canopy off like the kaos.
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

Don't have to change the timing on the OS55. Runs great as it is and is a good match on the jett-stream muffler.

10x7, 10x8, 11x6 prop and its good to go.
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

soory about should have its real good on the red pipe with stock timing but could be improved apon. i think 10 on the crank, open the carb up, clean the entry to the crank from carb, use 3m epoxy or J/B weld on the crank to form a ramp on the front of the crank, clean up transfers widen the exhaust and slightly (about5-10 thous) on the exhaust side. these are wrth about 1,000 or rpm depending on prop. you could go even more in have a machine shop lower compression for ya, but you must know these engine for this, ie: like what clearence you need piston to head and so on.

NOW WITH THESE MODS the engine will not last as long maybe 1-2 seasons. the jetts will make more power and last alot longer. well worth the price.
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX

My US40 should be here this week with retracts. I was wondering if I should try to make some kind of doors to cover the retracts. In the US thread I can't find any info, So i figured I'd ask here. Will it make any difference in speed or should I try to keep it simple? I may try to get a Jett for it this summer but I want to make sure I build it right to star off with. This will be my first fast plane, any suggestions?
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: Ultra Sport 40 - Sport Jett 60LX


ORIGINAL: kwhite.6

My US40 should be here this week with retracts. I was wondering if I should try to make some kind of doors to cover the retracts. In the US thread I can't find any info, So i figured I'd ask here. Will it make any difference in speed or should I try to keep it simple? I may try to get a Jett for it this summer but I want to make sure I build it right to star off with. This will be my first fast plane, any suggestions?
IMO I don't think you will need it to make the doors to increase the speed considerably , I built mine just with mmm .... a piece of wood over the retracts not in the hole where the tires gets in and believe me its faster than you would imagine . Enjoy

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