Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

What plane is this

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Old 11-12-2008, 09:10 AM
  #1  
funkydrummermike
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Default What plane is this

Hello,

I pucked this wing up at an auction and the seller didn't have any information for me. I am trying to find out who the manufacturer of this kit/arf is. It's a .40 size, I am quessing. Wingspan is 39.5". I'd like to know who the manufacturer is so maye I could get their recommendations for CG and control throws. I am sure I could figure it out on my own, but I thought it would be easier to have their information because I would like to get more then one take-off with it. Anyways, let me know what it is if you can.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:27 PM
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mk1spitfire
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Default RE: What plane is this

maybe a laser arrow???????????
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:02 PM
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soarrich
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Default RE: What plane is this

Somebody went to the JCSF auction.

I think the other guy is right, it also came with a stupid tiger color scheme.

Hey it's a delta, go 1/3 of the span out the 30% for the CG, use as much elevator as you can get, start with 1/4" ailerons with some expo.

This is what it looked like before it was stripped. I haven't flown mine yet, it had RF off my carb linkage and got set aside.
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:43 PM
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MJD
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Default RE: What plane is this


ORIGINAL: soarrich

Somebody went to the JCSF auction.

I think the other guy is right, it also came with a stupid tiger color scheme.

Hey it's a delta, go 1/3 of the span out the 30% for the CG, use as much elevator as you can get, start with 1/4" ailerons with some expo.

This is what it looked like before it was stripped. I haven't flown mine yet, it had RF off my carb linkage and got set aside.
I have a Laser Arrow partly built and it doesn't look like that.

Is that an ST-X .45 on the front of that?

MJD
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: What plane is this

when you set it up i believe you need some up trim preset into the delta. maybe like 3-5 degrees
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:30 PM
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soarrich
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ORIGINAL: MJD

Is that an ST-X .45 on the front of that?

MJD
.40 I think. I got it for almost nothing because it didn't run, it had a little piece of metal by the alinement noch in the cylinder top. 1500 grit wet/dry and a piece of glass, 10 seconds of work fixed it. I was getting RF of the metal to metal carb linkage, a ball link will fix it, then I fly it.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:17 PM
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tIANci
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Default RE: What plane is this

Anyone noticed almost all deltas need up trim ... anyone knows why?
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:50 PM
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ORIGINAL: tIANci

Anyone noticed almost all deltas need up trim ... anyone knows why?
All pure flying wings need reflex or sweep, up trim provides reflex.
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:28 AM
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Mike Connor
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ORIGINAL: tIANci

Anyone noticed almost all deltas need up trim ... anyone knows why?
Mine don't need up trim, if they are balanced correctly.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:07 AM
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mk1spitfire
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Default RE: What plane is this

Is a flying wing different from a true Delta.?

Flying wings need some reflex to hold the attitude
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:10 AM
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mk1spitfire
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Default RE: What plane is this

laser arrow
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:22 AM
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soarrich
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Default RE: What plane is this

Yep, that was the other color scheme I was offered.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: What plane is this


ORIGINAL: mk1spitfire

Is a flying wing different from a true Delta.?

Flying wings need some reflex to hold the attitude
Or:

Is a Delta different from a true flying wing?

A delta is a true flying wing, with a straight trailing edge, and a highly swept highpoint of the airfoil, but i don't think there is enough sweep to eliminate the need for reflex.

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Old 11-13-2008, 07:57 AM
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soarrich
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Default RE: What plane is this


ORIGINAL: Mike Connor


ORIGINAL: tIANci

Anyone noticed almost all deltas need up trim ... anyone knows why?
Mine don't need up trim, if they are balanced correctly.
Then they fly inverted with out holding in down? I bet not. If your delta is a symmetrical section and doesn't need up trim, I would say that is because all the drag producing stuff is setting on the top of the wing pulling the nose up with drag.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:22 AM
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mk1spitfire
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Default RE: What plane is this

My Weston uk Tigershark Delta has no aerofoil, its a flat section.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: What plane is this

ORIGINAL: funkydrummermike

Hello,

I pucked this wing up at an auction.

Thanks,
Mike
It must have been something you ate. [:'(]

Mike
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:56 AM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: What plane is this


ORIGINAL: soarrich


ORIGINAL: Mike Connor


ORIGINAL: tIANci

Anyone noticed almost all deltas need up trim ... anyone knows why?
Mine don't need up trim, if they are balanced correctly.
Then they fly inverted with out holding in down? I bet not. If your delta is a symmetrical section and doesn't need up trim, I would say that is because all the drag producing stuff is setting on the top of the wing pulling the nose up with drag.
The delta is symmetrical and mine is I set up so I need a very slight back pressure at speed to hold altitude. When inverted it needs very slight forward pressure to maintain altitude. So I guess what you are saying is true but the elevon deflection needed for level flight is not obvious when looking at it, when the CG is correct.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:10 PM
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soarrich
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Default RE: What plane is this


ORIGINAL: mk1spitfire

My Weston uk Tigershark Delta has no aerofoil, its a flat section.
Yes, dealts can fly without airfoils. There's many ways to make lift, a delta can use an airfoil, or vortex generated lift.
Here's some of mine:
First is the Vortex.
Second is a Diamond Dust.
Third is the Laser Arrow.
Forth to sixth is my NACA delta.
Seventh thru ninth is my Shully Delta.

The Vortex uses an airfoil to make lift upto about 15* AoA, then vortex generated lift.
The DD uses vortex lift and it's motor to make lift.
The Arrow is the same as the Vortex, just on a smaller scale.
The NACA delta makes lift with vortex genterated lift and 67,000 rpm 3x3 prop, 275 watts of power.
The Shully Delta makes it's lift with vortex generated lift. If you look closely you'll see it's really got a flat bottom airfoil UPSIDE DOWN.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:13 PM
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Default RE: What plane is this

If the airfoil is generating lift, then there is a pitching moment, and there must be a stabilizing force to counteract the pitching moment. It might not be visually obvious, it's just that at high speeds the required lift coefficient is low, so the angle of attack is very low and thus the elevon deflection very small. But it is there, and it is needed, unless the airfoil has reflex in order to generate that force without deviation from the airfoil profile via control surface deflection, or a twist is incorporated into the wing - same deal different wrapping paper. If it is trimmed for level flight at speed with no stick pressure, no way is it trimmed for inverted level flight at the same time.

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Old 11-13-2008, 11:17 PM
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Default RE: What plane is this

Cool, thanks for the info. It's always interestign how a post morphs into a different thread.

It must have been something you ate.
ha ha ha ... yeah I pucked it up. I bought it with covering but was hungry after the auction and that's what it looked like when I was done spewing it out. yes, I did get it at the JCSF auction. One hole in the head is never enough.

Mike
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:53 PM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: What plane is this


ORIGINAL: MJD

If it is trimmed for level flight at speed with no stick pressure, no way is it trimmed for inverted level flight at the same time.

MJD
On a symmetrical delta your should be able to move the CG so a centered elevon would be level flight. When this is achieved then rolling it inverted should produce the same results, level flight.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:31 AM
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MJD
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Default RE: What plane is this


ORIGINAL: Mike Connor


ORIGINAL: MJD

If it is trimmed for level flight at speed with no stick pressure, no way is it trimmed for inverted level flight at the same time.

MJD
On a symmetrical delta your should be able to move the CG so a centered elevon would be level flight. When this is achieved then rolling it inverted should produce the same results, level flight.
Really? Okay, I'll buy that.. but it sounds like a pretty critical CG position. Isn't the CG getting nervously close to the NP in that trim config?

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Old 11-14-2008, 12:38 AM
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Default RE: What plane is this

A wing generates lift by creating a pressure differential. A symmetrical airfoil, by its very nature, does not generate pressure differential at zero angle of attack. If a symmetrical wing were to fly at zero angle of attack, it would not generate lift and eventually fall to the ground, regardless of forward speed. Gravity is constantly pulling the plane down; lift must be generated to counteract that force. The only way a symmetrical wing can maintain level flight is by increasing the angle of attack. By changing the angle of attack, you are effectively changing the airfoil. By changing the airfoil through angle of attack, the "symmetrical" airfoil is now creating a pressure differential, otherwise known as lift. If the control surfaces were trimmed for true zero input, so that they are parallel with the datum line, the wing would have zero angle of attack and the plane would not be able to maintain level flight. Therefore maintaining level flight with the plane right side up will require up elevator and down elevator to maintain level flight while inverted. Or what MJD said.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:53 AM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: What plane is this

With a forward CG it would require a lot of up elevator to maintain level flight. When inverted it would also require a lot of down (actually up) elevator to maintain level flight. Forgetting stability issues, you could move the the CG far enough back so opposite controls would be required for level flight. There would have to be a balance point where a nutral elevon would produce level flight and a symmetrical airfoil would not know the difference if it was inverted.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:56 AM
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Default RE: What plane is this

The slightly aft CG location would give it the angle of attack needed for level flight regardless if it was up side down or not.
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