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Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

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Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

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Old 06-08-2003, 11:14 PM
  #1  
ChuckAuger
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Well after having my Whiplash finished for a little over 5 months, I flew it today.

This is the Whiplash Billy Hell won in the RCU drawing. I traded him an engine/tuned muffler for it since speed isn't his bag.

I have to admit I was a bit discouraged upon receiving it..I had an OS 46 VRDF and it would not balance with this engine. So I got out a Rossi 65 disk engine. It balanced perfectly!

Here is the actual engine:



But I have several Rossi .65 disk engines, so I tried a few different prop/engine combos. The one I finally settled on had the exhaust duration set at 172 degrees, had a .005" sleeve shim and was running a .470" bore OS 8B carb. Running a Rossi 10cc pipe.

I am running an APC 9X8 sport prop because I just wanted to be sure I got in the air. This engine will only turn the 9X8 at 21K, so it is not nearly as powerful as many of the engines people are running on their Whiplashes. Still, the launch was very nice! Great control from a hand toss, just a little up and right, and it flew straight out. Very very nice.

I am running the 6oz tank that came with the kit, as well as a 2oz tank. The setup is a bit different since the large tank is closest to the carb and the small tank is farthest away. Not like having a main tank feeding into a 2oz hopper (header) tank. But I felt the extra 2 oz would help, and that was all the room I had.

Good thing. I flew it 5 times, and got about 2 min, 30 seconds before the fuel in the main tank got to sloshing where I couldn't pick it up..but there was maybe 1~ 1.5 oz left each time. So 2.5 minutes for each flight was the norm...this on an 8oz starting fuel load.

Battery power was a factor. I am running 8411's and a 1000Mah 4.8v NiMh pack. I was getting glitches on the secong flight, the battery was almost dead. This is a proven battery, just got sucked dry. Started charging after every flight..25 minutes on the Sirius Pro. No more glitches charging 15~20 minutes between flights. This thing uses some juice!

Of course I have an HS-81 on throttle and mixture, but they don't draw that much.

And mixture! Man I love the mixture adjustment! Take off with a little cackle and lean it out. Worked flawless. Very much made the flights more enjoyable..

And down to the enjoyment.

I have flown a pretty good number of planes, but hearing a .65 sized engine turning up over 22~23K in the air..the sound is enjoyable. About 125dB at a few feet on the ground.

Performance?? Well we already know that 21K on a 9X8 APC won't go very fast. But it would do pure vertical climbing rolls for almost 3 seconds before it became invisible. Very solid launches and great landings...of course I started my base turn at about 1K feet .

So After hearing that a heavy old Rossi was nothing but a boat anchor on the front of a heavy plane, I was very happy with today's flights..



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Old 06-09-2003, 12:18 AM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Looks Awesome Chuck.

Good job.
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Old 06-09-2003, 12:34 AM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Way to go Chuck!

Can you give us an estimate on your speed. You certainly can't be lagging to far behind anyone else with a Whiplash. I'm not sure what else out there will turn an honest 21K static with an APC sport prop. Everyone else for the most part is using pylon props I think. I'll bet you would rip with a 9.75 pitch pylon prop bolted on there.

Was it you who cut down a few heavy pitch sport props to make them the same shape as a pylon?

Way to smoke'em,

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Old 06-09-2003, 12:51 AM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Thanks Dave!

No Bob..I cut some APC pattern props down to make them look like a 9X8 APC.

Here is a pic of an APC 11X12 cut down to 8.8X 15.5 next to a 9X8. I have since started using 12X12 and cut them down to 11.5~ 13.5 pitch at 8.8" diameter.



I have a bunch of the 8.8X *** Pylon props..but they all turn faster on the stand than the 9X8 and just don't push any wind. I don't think skinny blades and lots of R's will do any good, I just wanted to get in the air.

I have absolutely no estimate on speed...the closest I can find is this:

Whiplash doing 200+ on APC 9x8 @ 17.9 Static

Of course I know I wasn't going that fast, but it was still a very fun afternoon..
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Old 06-09-2003, 01:37 PM
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Default ONLY?

Yo, Chuck! ONLY 21,000 rpm with a 9X8? That's incredible!

I'd be lucky to turn a 9X8 at 19K with a Jett 50. Those are sensational numbers.

Straight and level your Whip has got to be moving. Out of I dive you HAVE to be capable of 225 plus.

Sounds like a killer motor. I'd love to have one but it sounds like you've cornered the market on them.

I'll have to see what Dubb can do with my 60L.
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Old 06-09-2003, 10:33 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Yeah we put it thru the dreaded full power vertical dive test...not a hint of flutter!

But the Rossi is old technology..this one has been massaged to turn this. To tell the truth I ruined it trying to get better numbers on the high pitched props...cut (the sleeve) and tached it, and lost RPM..What I had done favored high RPM better I guess so I put a sleeve shim in it and just slapped a 9X8 on it. Gonna have to run some head shims..I was brutalizing plugs. 4 plugs in 5 flights.

The whole set-up is just as it was when I first ran the 9X8..I haven't changed the pipe length or anything. I pulled the engine this evening to clean the dirt out of it (I plowed up a little keeping the speed up on landings ) this thing really throws dirt into the tank compartment/carb area. Gonna put a dust cover on the bottom.

But no matter what I do to it, I'll never get it down to 13oz but then again this plane wouldn't balance with a 13oz engine, that's why it has a Rossi on the front in the first place. The best nose weight is cubic inches.
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Old 06-10-2003, 12:46 AM
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Default Rossi

Chuck,

I hear you. To get the really crazy numbers takes a little work, no question about it.

Old technology or not your Rossi sounds like a monster of a motor.

My next step is to send the 60L back to Dubb for a work-over. It is a bit of a stroker, not really an rpm mill (so Dubb tells me) so tomorrow I plan to stretch the pipe out a bit and see what I can do with a 10X9. One interesting thing about the big prop is how quickly the airplane builds up speed in a dive.

My BSE 90L FIRE should arrive soon from Dubb. He claims 16K with a 10X10. Bob Holmes says just add a little nitro and you can turn 12 pitch at the same rpm. I've had incredible results with Magnum fuel so it will be interesting to see if I get the same increase in performance using it as I have with my other Jetts.

My Clipped Dust has arrived. Will try to get some side by side photos posted over the next few days. Really cool little airplane, pretty much looks like the perfect airframe for a hot motor. Got a lot on my plate right now but hope to fly it soon.
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Old 06-10-2003, 08:13 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Hey dude,

Glad you finally got it up!...

Sorry I didn't email ya back...I was having email problems.....

So when ya gonna bring it out.....?? I'm ready to see it rip...

I tore up the dust(well you know you were there) so now I have to depend on you for the speed fix.....

Looks good hope to see it fly soon....

Later, Ken
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Old 06-10-2003, 08:25 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Get ahold of Creighton (sp?) and let's set a date....you guys need to check this one out before it augers in!
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Old 06-11-2003, 11:53 AM
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Default Rossi

Chuck,

How much have you actually raised the timing on the Rossi and how much of an rpm increase do you attribute to the timing change?

Did changing the timing require a change in pipe length?

Also wondering how much nitro you are running?

Thanks
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Old 06-11-2003, 12:17 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

The exhaust duration has been increased from 148 degrees to 172 degrees. The sleeve has been shimmed .005"..not sure how much of a difference this makes on the bypass ports, degree-wise.

RPM increase..hard to say. I could slap a 9X8 on a box stock engine I guess.

Everything you do to change the RPM requires a change in pipe length.

I run 10% Powermaster.

Why not just tell Dub you want to out-turn a Rossi .65 and let him have at it?? I'm sure he will be a lot more knowledgeable than I am.
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Old 06-11-2003, 12:54 PM
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Default Dubb

Chuck,

I emailed him with that very proposition but he never got back to me. I plan to call him on it.

I am thinking it may be too much to ask of the 60L as it is a really small engine, only 13 oz. The Rossi looks a lot beefier and heavier.

Am getting ready to order some props to cut down for my 90L. Just wondering why you prefer the 12X12 to the 11X12. Is it a different blade shape? I do recall the 13 inch props have a more tapered shape.
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Old 06-11-2003, 01:25 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

LOL yeah, there ain't much that is beefier than a Rossi...the practical RPM is 25K I think.

The reason I like the 12X12 is the hub..it is the same .550" thickness as the D1 racing hubs. That, and the 11" props I had were kinda old, and the plastic was different than the new 12" I got. I like the plastic in the 12" better. Oh..and my LHS couldn't ever get any 11X11 or 11X12's but the 12X11 and 12X12 came in right away.

So several reasons.
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Old 06-13-2003, 02:25 AM
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Default A different pipe..

I liked the Nelson pipe on my Dust a LOT, so I decided to whip out a similar pipe on the Whip. Not a double cone, more of a smooth shape. Got me a couple grand on the Dust, and this pipe is the exact same length as the Rossi pipe/header I am running. I got it with a bunch of OS ducted fan parts, not sure what it is.

Haven't run it yet.

Some people like the muffled tuned pipes. They are fine, they run OK. But the Rossi pipe I was running had a real thin tail cone where I had cut the muffled section off. The weight of the muffler section was killing my balance, so off it came.

Function over everything...I don't really care how pretty it is, I want to turn.

And I was running a Macs double cone tuned pipe on the Dust and blowing plugs.. After I changed to the Nelson pipe I hardly blew plugs at all.

So I'll run this exact same shaped pipe on this engine, see if I can gain a grand or so and keep from blowing plugs.

And I'm going up on pitch as soon as I get to the hobby shop tomorrow.

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Old 06-13-2003, 02:28 AM
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Default Pipes and engines

Chuck,

What more can I say, you da man!
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Old 06-13-2003, 02:38 AM
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Default Oh you ain't seen nothing yet..

I just needed a test bed for some pipe/engine combos. The good stuff is yet to come! LOL

Here is a pic of the Nelson pipe for comparison

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Old 06-13-2003, 02:48 AM
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Default Motor

And I thought a Jett 60 was a big motor for a Whiplash!

Compared to that Rossi it looks like a Cox .049!

Guess I'll have to get another 90 now!
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Old 06-13-2003, 02:53 AM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Yeah, compared to that Rossi it'll pull like a Cox .049, too.

Light weight is fine. Pretty engines are neat.

RPM's are what I ultimately strive for.
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Old 06-13-2003, 12:49 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Chuck,

ChuckAuger,

I really like that hopper tank setup you have. They really helps kill the fuel foaming problem at the engine where it counts and even more so that fuel starving you get on a high speed run from out of a dive when you're down to a half tank of fuel.

Let us know how the higher pitch props go on this one. Doppler should prove interesting on this plane.

Maybe you should change your name to "Capt. Cardiac" after flying this one.

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Old 06-14-2003, 01:29 AM
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Default We will never know..

Well took the Whip to Amarillo this evening. Was running right strong on the new pipe. Maybe a bit too strong!

Made a lap and went vertical, then split-S into a vertical dive.

Engine was turning very nice, jumped another octave just about the time I went to level out.

And just about 50 ft from the ground the flutter set in. It was over very quickly!

I augered in at a good clip..I almost had it leveled out when it hit, so it hit fairly shallow.

The impact was spectacular!! I've never seen a divot to equal this one..just amazing. The dirt cloud was several feet high and several feet wide. Just breathtaking in the violence!

The right elevon had de-laminated at the tip. Basically just un-wravelled. All the linkages were still intact. But I don't think any top-hinged control surface would have survived..this thing was in an almost pure vertical full throttle power dive.

But hey, if your gonna go out, might as well go out in style!!

I didn't take my camera out to the crash, but some of the ARKS guys did..I think khutson will put up some pics soon. Great pics!

The engine is fine..it popped right off on impact. The new pipe..well, I think they have some pics of it That was the only part that hurt..That pipe was rockin!! Radio is most likely wasted..I'll check the 8411's...the HS-81's couldn't have survived.

The airframe was wadded up. It looked like a Diamond Dust after impact..there is not a single thing on it that isn't broken except the fins. It is very, very wadded up

And then on the road home..The car right in front of me was hit head-on by a car going the other direction when a massive storm hit the highway. The guy in front of me was my old high school football coach!! Didn't know the other people..they were all OK. I was of course the first car on the scene..I was almost in the scene! Two crashes in one day..I don't need that!!

Being a crash monger, I jumped out with my camera..not going to miss two crashes in one day!!

Some pics..I was being pelted with nickle size hail when I took these. Crash mongering is a tough job.



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Old 06-14-2003, 04:50 AM
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Default Yo, Chuck....

....sorry to hear about the demise of the Whip....

....the only good thing about packing in the speed planes
is you don't have to worry about rebuilding....

(glad everyone survived the car crash)
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:09 PM
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Default HHHhhhmmm..

I figured those guys would have some pics up by now..

Thanks for the condolences, Dave. That thing was living on the edge, I knew it was living on borrowed time. I see Rick has them on sale for $169..I'll buy another for that price. It really was a great flying plane with a .65. Now that I see how it is put together I can mount elevons with a different hinge. I don't fault the design, I was surely pushing it past what it was intended to do.

Let's see if I can attach some pics..the first one is the 3/16" OD CF pushrods with 4-40 ends and Rocket City ball links, aluminum arms on 8411's. The survived almost intact, just a little bend in some of the 4-40 rods. One of the 8411's is binding..one seems fine!
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:14 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Here is a shot of the elevon from the bottom..this is where it came apart AFAIK.. I had 2" wide 3M Strapping tape covering the bottom of the hinge gap.
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:17 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Same elevon, from the TE of the elevon..
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:26 PM
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Default Rossi .65 powered Whip..test flight! Now with graphic crash details and PICS!!

Here is a general shot of the front...the carnage was complete.
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