Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Carolina Crater Machine

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Old 04-09-2009, 07:31 AM
  #1  
MJD
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Default Carolina Crater Machine

Okay.. this is it I have decided. This otherwise fine electric pylon ship, previously destined for a life of sport flying with a camera pod underneath, has now transformed into a compact field-assembled device for planting Italian racing engines deep in the soil.

It is not as far-fetched as it looks - the AUW as it sits: Airframe complete, engine, pipe, tank, wing servos installed = 1280 grams, or 2.82 pounds. I figure the engine is up to it. Add 200 grams or so, SWAG, for composite structural reinforcement in key areas (like, the airframe), Rx batt, receiver, throttle and elevator servos, and dry weight could come in a low as 4 pounds and a trifle. That should fly just fine.

The plan is actually to invert the engine and fully cowl it and the pipe, to keep it well away from airflow around the wing. This gives a clean shoulder wing setup. I'll have to make sure the cowl is up to skidding at 50mph while protecting the inverted engine (hello Kevlar belly lams).

Flight possibilities are:

- it flies nicely out of a hand launch to disappear over the horizon before I get my hand on the sticks.
- it screams forward 300 feet into the ground.
- it flies erratically and I plant it at 200.
- it works.

.. there are others I am sure. []

Wheee!

MJD


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Old 04-09-2009, 09:13 AM
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wjvail
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

It looks like an 80's vintage control line speed model. You know there was a reason those had full length metal pans, right? I don't thing you can get enough structure in that fuselage to keep the motor and tail connected to the wing.

This is a late April fools right?

Bill
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Might need to use a couple more rubber bands to hold the engine in there at full throttle.

Probably need some lead in the tail to balance it too!
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

ORIGINAL: wjvail

It looks like an 80's vintage control line speed model. You know there was a reason those had full length metal pans, right? I don't thing you can get enough structure in that fuselage to keep the motor and tail connected to the wing.

This is a late April fools right?

Bill
Actually I don't think it is as radical as it appears to be. And I am dead serious about doing it. The wing loading will be quite comfortable. The wing is extremely strong - molded glass-balsa-glass skins over a CF composite spar, foam fillers here and there - it's pretty tough from the looks of it. Area is about 390 squares. At 5 pounds that is 29.5 oz/ft^2 wing loading - no big deal.

The fuse is pretty strong but was built for FAI electric pylon racing, not IC power - I will be reaching inside and applying longitudinal stiffeners, the vertical fin and rear section will be filled with 2# foam. The stab is up to the job already. The cowl lower surface, aka the landing skid, will be toughened up with Kevlar. I understand the need for vibration/acoustic damping too.

Sure speed pans were to give the thing a having a chance of sufficient structural integrity, but look at the g forces and landing abuse they have to endure as well. In addition, speed pans also serve as a heat sink.

I may have problems with it, who knows, but I know a good way to find out.

If it hits the ground it will break, no doubt. But so will those Euro speeders. I've seen a few - on video that is - crumpling the fuselage on a cartwheeled landing or other mishap. I can problably afford up to 8 ounces of structural reinforcement without adverse wing loading penalty, and I doubt I will need that much. We'll see.

pkh- you like the break-away engine mounting? I borrowed that from a L'il Wizard. I would have hung the engine upside down for the pics but I have not cut the fuse yet. With a tail mounted rearward elevator servo for direct pushrod actuation, and the battery tucked in the tail boom, balance will be okay from what I can tell so far.

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Old 04-09-2009, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

You are having to much fun with this project!
Looks great - glad I will be on the other coast when you throttle up the OPS with that prop on her

So you are going to hang that pretty gold head upsidedown and drag it through the tundra?

When actually is the Carolina event? No pressure....
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Old 04-09-2009, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine


ORIGINAL: RocketRob

You are having to much fun with this project!
Looks great - glad I will be on the other coast when you throttle up the OPS with that prop on her

So you are going to hang that pretty gold head upsidedown and drag it through the tundra?

When actually is the Carolina event? No pressure....
It's in June. Yeah I really think I am going to hang it - I'll cover up the head if so. But it will be a couple of days before I start cutting anything away - so I could change my mind. It is probably significantly cleaner upside down, but then again this is not a full effort at a speed machine. Rather, it is a throw-together, and so losing 4 mph or whatever it might be right-side-up is likely not the most important reason to make things difficulter (huh? - [:-]) than they have to be.

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Old 04-09-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

MJD, you are a true Revver Brother! [sm=thumbup.gif]
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Old 04-09-2009, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

ORIGINAL: Kmot

MJD, you are a true Revver Brother! [sm=thumbup.gif]
[sm=red_smile.gif] Gee shucks.. [sm=red_smile.gif].

Hey RR - That's the climb prop for test hops and circuits. I'm using a clipped down 8-6 TF nylon for the NC runs, and I'll heat gun a little more pitch into 'er once I get the engine broken in real good and start really leanin' 'er out.. [8D]

From this angle the aircraft/engine combo looks more normal, doesn't it? 54" span, 8" root chord, 6" tip root chord.

My owner crashes every airplane photo shoot attempt in seconds. The last female cat was an airpane destroyer, but disappeared when she was about 1-1/2. I figure the coyotes got her.. [sm=angel_smile.gif]. Lucky for this one she's not an airplane wrecker, and she's my little buddy. The end of my nose always smells like cat food.

[now there's a straight line..]

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Old 04-09-2009, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

I think it'll work!

June 27 is coming up quick. I got a call from a NY revver who is coming down for the fun too.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine


ORIGINAL: vicman

I think it'll work!

June 27 is coming up quick. I got a call from a NY revver who is coming down for the fun too.
I think so too. Whewther I work as fast as it does remains to be seen.

Now, if I can get the engine in the other picture running by then, we'll be in for a treat. Y'all know what it is right?

(no, it's not mine alas, but I took the picture last weekend so I did fondle it.)

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Old 04-10-2009, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Photo number 1 of post number8?

Looks like HVAC distribution - hope there are some turning vanes in the 90's


But I guess some part of the V1? Do I win the change to maiden your plane?
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Get busy and I'll maiden her for you at the West Coast Extravaganza on 4/25
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Looked a little heavy for you pulse jet project

RR, I have been watching the left coast efforts to have a similar event but haven't seen any real changes on the timing equipment problem. Can you give any updates or is it just going to end up some fast lekky guys flying at Edwards for a day type thing?
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine


ORIGINAL: RocketRob

Photo number 1 of post number8?

Looks like HVAC distribution - hope there are some turning vanes in the 90's


But I guess some part of the V1? Do I win the change to maiden your plane?
Yeah, it's the body of a Schmidt-Argus pulse jet, freshly sandblasted and primed. In other words, it is indeed a big ugly piece of steel plumbing crudely welded together. No 90s on this one. But they had turning vanes on the rudder.. The scale can roughly be estimated by the parts bin beside it.

This thing will be a mid-late summer project what with everything else going on, but I'll keep at it as briskly as I am able! I am in the throws of starting up a small biz venture so some of my time is eaten up no matter how much I cry, stamp and whine. But not all of it, I'm not ambitious enough to do that..

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Old 04-10-2009, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Vicman - I am working on a few RC buddies to tag along with their toys. Esp my friend Dan, coz he's got a '77 GMC Gaucho shaggin' wagon that is perfect for such trips. And the fridge works. All we need is food and bevvies and four boxes of wet wipes - "shower in a box". Or a cheapish hotel/motel would be fine too..

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Old 04-11-2009, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

And the fridge works.
That aint right man.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
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Old 04-20-2009, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

The surgery is scheduled for this evening. In the meantime, one more vroom-vroom picture with the engine rubber-banded on to the unbuggered fuselage. I'm going to forgo the inverted install on this one, and stay like this. It's a practice airplane the way I look at it. But if it works it will most likely go like snot.

No I'm not running the pylon prop on that engine, it's just to look at with the spinner. The more I fondle this in my hand and turn it this way and that to admire the proportions and heft, the more it is making total sense. It feels like it will work, if you know what I mean. I have no doubts about the wing's integrity, though I do plan to avoid pylon turns due to the increased wing loading. Or, is it more? What would a 2002 vintage FAI motor and battery system for this thing weigh anyhow, I wonder? I'm too lazy to look it up, but maybe someone knows off the top of their head. It could be the AUW will be less.. who knows? I hope the top speed is higher at least.

MJD
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:28 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Hey MJD, I was thinking about your plane today...........what about putting a crazy high RPM car motor that turns in the 35 G area[X(] I've had some truck engines that are without a doubt insane and have given the same thought about putting one of them in a small light weight F5D type plane. I noticed a car motor at the hobby shop the other day that had a prop adapter and a carb with a standard throttle hookup. Just a thought....it would be easier to install with less stuffing. All you have to do is cut some of the heat sink head off of it as it should cool fine with the high speed air and no stopping. If I can come up with the right airframe I'm gonna do it[>:]
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:47 PM
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ORIGINAL: arcticflyer

Hey MJD, I was thinking about your plane today...........what about putting a crazy high RPM car motor that turns in the 35 G area[X(] I've had some truck engines that are without a doubt insane and have given the same thought about putting one of them in a small light weight F5D type plane. I noticed a car motor at the hobby shop the other day that had a prop adapter and a carb with a standard throttle hookup. Just a thought....it would be easier to install with less stuffing. All you have to do is cut some of the heat sink head off of it as it should cool fine with the high speed air and no stopping. If I can come up with the right airframe I'm gonna do it[>:]
If there's a car engine that will outpull an OPS .65 at full steam, I'd like to see it. This particular aircraft most likely has too much frontal area to make use of a car engine with the tiny prop it would need to spin, but a smaller bird with less frontal area could be the ticket. Go for it! It will sound gnarly for sure. But it won't make as big a hole..

MJD
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:23 PM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Here ya go......4.6hp at over 51,000RPM's[X(] Man if I could put a prop on this thing
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:39 AM
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ORIGINAL: MJD
If there's a car engine that will outpull an OPS .65 at full steam, I'd like to see it. This particular aircraft most likely has too much frontal area to make use of a car engine with the tiny prop it would need to spin, but a smaller bird with less frontal area could be the ticket. Go for it! It will sound gnarly for sure. But it won't make as big a hole..

MJD
Yes indeed, the required small prop to reach the required "extreme" RPM would be in Control-line F2A territory where single blade props are necessary to avoid inefficient Reynolds numbers. Take an older style C/L Speed, symmetrical model (not the assymentric style as per present F2A practice), remove the lines (and most of the drag) and make it R/C. Probably not practical but boy would it move!

In the next post, 51000 RPM: Maybe a ducted fan could work but then would it be an "Extreme Speed Prop Plane" still.....

P
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:21 AM
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ORIGINAL: Petrovsky
Yes indeed, the required small prop to reach the required "extreme" RPM would be in Control-line F2A territory where single blade props are necessary to avoid inefficient Reynolds numbers. Take an older style C/L Speed, symmetrical model (not the assymentric style as per present F2A practice), remove the lines (and most of the drag) and make it R/C. Probably not practical but boy would it move!

In the next post, 51000 RPM: Maybe a ducted fan could work but then would it be an "Extreme Speed Prop Plane" still.....

P
And specs notwithstanding, I do not believe for a minute it can pull anything faster than a strong .65. I need to be convinced.

As soon as I can pony up for one, I intend to run an F2A engine on something. Gotta give it a shot. Maybe next year.. ;-)

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Old 04-22-2009, 08:08 AM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

I'm just gonna put a nelson SS in an F3D plane and go for it[8D]
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:33 AM
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ORIGINAL: vicman

I'm just gonna put a nelson SS in an F3D plane and go for it[8D]
Yeah that will work "just fine"! You might dust my glider thingy, but heck it's all fun.

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Old 04-22-2009, 11:25 AM
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Default RE: Carolina Crater Machine

Yep, the whole idea is to go as fast as possible and have some fun while doing it.[8D]
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