Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Picco .80 RIRE

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Old 05-04-2009, 10:15 AM
  #1  
BiggerDanno
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Default Picco .80 RIRE

I just picked up a Picco .80 aero engine that does not look like it's ever been run. I haven't been able to find any info on this engine anywhere.

I'll post a pic later, but wondered what info you guys could share on this engine? After removing the head, it appears to be a long-stroke engine. It has stamped on the mounting flanges "RC 80".

Is there a source of parts for this engine?
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

more than likely its a ducted fan engine and a GOOD one at that, I think they made a few prop engines but all were front intake. Post this question in the jet section you might get lucky.
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

That was my first thought too, but with the long stroke, that leads me to believe that it's a relativley low rpm engine compared to a ducted fan.

Thanks!
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:30 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

is it front intake or rear intake, i own both a ops .80, and a picco .80, they are both fan engines, but i vaguely recall a front intake .80 picco.. its unlikely its really a stroker, iirc, one was sold a while ago on rcuniverse... but it may have less intake timing...run it in something fast, many of the ops parts fit in picco motors
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

It's a rear intake, rear exhaust.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:02 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE


ORIGINAL: BiggerDanno

It's a rear intake, rear exhaust.

DF afaik, not a sport engine. Let it spin! It should be a honker. The OPS .80's are beasts.

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Old 05-05-2009, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

Here are some pix of it.

What airframe would make a good go-fast for this engine?

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Old 05-06-2009, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE


ORIGINAL: BiggerDanno

What airframe would make a good go-fast for this engine?
Hello,

the trusty Speed Cobra (see pics below) will be the perfect airframe for your PICCO .80 ducted fan engine. The Speedcobra is very easy to fly. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Top speeds will be about 180 mph using a carbon fiber copy of the APC 10x10 prop being shortened to 9x10":

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_79..._1/key_/tm.htm

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=984610

If you don't know how to make continuous strand carbon fiber props you may ask RCU member RocketRob.







The setup of this Speed cobra is:
[ul][*] OS .91 VR-DF[*] BVM tuned pipe (custom made "fuse-top" style header that can also be ordered from MACS Producs http://www.macspro.com/headers_rear.asp ; tuned pipe length is about 30 cm between glow plug and middle of the pipe belly)[*] fuel: 20% oil, 15% nitro[*] above mentioned 9x10" CF propeller[*] BVM R/C mixture control
[/ul]
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:52 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

I-L-J, i would love a link to the speed cobra. i believe that you have posted the link before but i have to work hard to find it. you give us a lot of info. thanks.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

I think most Cobra info here at RCU can be found in the above linked Cobra-thread.

[link=http://www.fliegerlandshop.de/portal/index.php/downloads/category/26-cobra-bau?download=4%3Acobra]This[/link] is the construction manual for the Speed Cobra short kit. The last page shows the contact address of the maker.

Finally a vid of the Speed Cobra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDYHs8E_A4

Over here in Europe this plane is most famous especially for the speed beginners prefering running the “big block“ 13 cc to 15 cc ducted fan engines. Due to its size and harmless flying characteristics it is an ideal speed trainer.
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:00 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE


ORIGINAL: I-Love-Jets
Over here in Europe this plane is most famous especially for the speed beginners prefering running the “big block“ 13 cc to 15 cc ducted fan engines. Due to its size and harmless flying characteristics it is an ideal speed trainer.
Wow - it does look like it is a well mannered aircraft, especialy the landing, which did not look too fast at all.

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Old 05-07-2009, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

The Speed Cobra looks nice, but is it available in the US?
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE


Now for some pics of more or less heavily modified Speed Cobras (“Evo-Edition“). All mods are custom made.

The British racing green Cobra features a much thinner wing airfoil and an engine/pipe cowl. It is powered by the Rossi R90 3+2 RV ABC ducted fan engine.











Based on aerodynamic improvements (cowling + thinner wing) also this red Cobra-Evo is considerably quicker than stock. It is powered by the now discontinued high quality Russian Angstrem .91 DF engine and pipe.

















This modded Cobra comes with the OS .91 VR-DF engine mounted inverted and fully cowled.












All above shown customised 15 cc powered Cobra versions are capable of at least 200 mph due to the reduced parasitic drag. Because of the better airframe aerodynamic quality higher pitched + smaller dia carbon fiber props can be applied such like 8.5x11“.




ORIGINAL: BiggerDanno

The Speed Cobra looks nice, but is it available in the US?
Well, AFAIK the Speedcobras by Fliegerland are sold to European countries to date. But shipping overseas shouldn't be a problem in our globalised world (a group buy will reduce shipping expenses).

But we Europeans do have to struggle with same situations: In the past I personally had to order many R/C related items from the USA due to lack of distributors over here. For instance BVM .91R engines and mixture controls, Nelson made ABC and AAC piston/liner assemblies for the OS .91 VR-DF etc.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

And some more Speedcobra pics, this time in stock configuration:








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Old 05-07-2009, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

Hi I_Love_Jets,
I've been in touch with Fliegerland.
They don't ship to Australia.
Not sure about USA.
Any other suggestions for an airframe for this motor?
Regards
Gil
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

ORIGINAL: Giln

I've been in touch with Fliegerland.
They don't ship to Australia.
Not sure about USA.
Any other suggestions for an airframe for this motor?
Well, what about the truly fast flying wings (Messerschmitt 163). The link you will find [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8746050]here[/link] .

Please do also read all the speed engine and carbon fiber propeller related info. You may do a forum search for the term OPS for instance...
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

I followed I Love Jets prior advice on the Sunshine ME163 - almost ready for prime time....OS 91DF, fully enclosed rotary drive control linkages, Inflight mixture. - can't wait...

Sunshine Model was delightful to deal with, shipping on 2 kits was quite reasonable and everything well packed.


Of course it will be wearing Major Wolfgang Spate's "red tomatoe" colors.....
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

Another option,

Rumor has it this plane will soon be fabricated and shipped stateside........ stay tuned to this forum
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE


ORIGINAL: RocketRob

Another option,

Rumor has it this plane will soon be fabricated stateside........
It's more than rumor, but someone beat me to the mold by hours.. ;-)

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Old 05-08-2009, 11:11 AM
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-zy790GdWc[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OfHH6_v9ZQ[/youtube]

Here's my recommendation for the US/Canadian speed market for all those 10 cc to 15 cc ducted fan engine lovers wanting at least 200 mph of true top speed (over the FAI 200 m long speed trap if you like). [8D]

Like in Europe there's certainly US/CAN/MEX demand for a conventional type of speed plane that can be powered by one of those potent big blocks made by
[ul][*] OPS[*] ROSSI[*] PICCO[*] K&B[*] OS[*] BVM/Nelson[*] Angstrem
[/ul]


It is not really satisfying to modify existing (wooden) kits of a Mustang for instance because of still too much parasitic drag left. Only a purpose built speed plane will meet the speed freak's nerves entirely. The above shown STREGA by RocketRob/Look however will do fine on the pylon course...



Design requirements for a purpose built speed plane



fuselage
[ul][*] optimised for RIRE and FIRE speed engines from 10 to 18 cc capacity (including the [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8722740]OPS 20 cc DF engine monster [/link] )[*] no landing gear [*] glass fuselage[*] glass cowling for engine and tuned pipe (full cowling would be perfect)[*] upright engine mounting (inverted config will potentially lead to heat accumulation problems due to the low situated tuned pipe)[*] fuse length 130 cm (without spinner prop nut)[*] fuselage nose features a 30 mm diameter opening for the propeller driver of the engine (so no expensive integrated type of super-balanced aluminum spinner is required, instead it's a simple propeller spinner nut solution)[*] keep the width of the engine bay as narrow as possible (these big block engines are 60 mm wide)[*] max width of fuselage (within region of CG) should not exceed 70 mm[*] width of the tuned pipe cowl should be 60 mm maximum[*] make the fuselage long enough between the engine prop driver and the wing leading edge (the rear intake engines, the R/C mixture control and the fuel tank do eat much length space up). I do suggest 30 cm distance.[*] realization of nice fuse/wing and fuse/tailfeathers fillets to reduce parasitic drag effectively.
[/ul]

wing
[ul][*] wing span 120 cm (tapered trapezoidal layout without swept back design of the trailing edge!)[*] 0 degrees of wing dihedral[*] 10% thick wing airfoil being symmetrical[*] high or low wing configuration (both come with equal aerodynamic efficiency)[*] multiple layered glass reinforcement (45 degree orientation!) between wing foam and wooden sheeting (growing towards the wing center for controlled transfer of the wing stresses)[*] one-piece wing spar of at least 80 cm of length made of ply-wood [*] balsa- or obeche sheeted foam wing (to be glass coated later for improved impact resistance; the sheeting should be 120 cm long in order to avoid a two-piece wing that has to be glued together at the center)[*] aileron servos to be mounted within the wing (no aileron torque rods!)[*] ailerons (ca 30 cm long each) situated at the inner wing part to reduce roll sensitivity at top speed
[/ul]


tail
[ul][*] regular or V-tail configuration (depends on the preference of the designer)[*] 9% thick horizontal stab airfoil being symmetrical[*] balsa- or obeche sheeted foam stab (to be glass coated later for improved impact resistance)[*] 9% thick vertical fin airfoil (preferably integrated into the fuselage molds)
[/ul]


other
[ul][*] 4 pieces of nylon bolts (M8 threaded or bigger) for mounting the wing to the fuse[*] countersunk wing nylon bolts[*] only use reinforced control horns, hinges, pushrod connectors, ball links, etc from the R/C jet folks[*] tuned pipes well suited are available from BVM, JMP, MACS #1190 for instance[*] the mandatory R/C mixture control is offered by BVM or JMP (these DF engines must always be well cooled internally by running on the rich side with at least 20% of oil)[*] TETTRA bubbless tank #TET4061 (400cc = 14 oz, HxWxL = 58x54x151) http://www.centralhobbies.com/Fuel/fueltnk2.html[*] internally installed on/off switch[*] internally installed antenna[*] take-off weight about 3 kg[*] engine tuning only from behind the propeller circle for safety reasons
[/ul]


carbon fiber propeller
CF props are mandatory when using these high rpm ducted fan engines developing up to 5 HP. Just take the APC 10x10 sport prop and make a mold of it. These 10x10 carbon fiber copies of the APC should then be shortened to 9” of diameter and then be added to the plane's short kit – all for the customer's safety and for best performance results.






This new sophisticated purpose designed speed plane - offered for the North Americans - will satisfy both the “big block” speed beginner and the advanced speed freak with its consistent 200 mph+ top speeds and easy handling.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]



For comparison:
The Speedcobra plane does own a monopoly market position over here. During the past decades SIMPROP sold and now FLIEGERLAND does sell a ton of these kits per year throughout Europe because no comparable competitive product does exist since 25 years. You can say that almost every flying field in Germany does have or did have a buddy owning a Speed Cobra - everybody knows this popular plane here...



But the above described North American version will be considerably better/faster than the European Speedcobra because of the numerous aerodynamic refinements involved.

So if a RCU member (MJD for instance) intends to start making short kits of that new “true” extreme speed plane nobody else in North America has something similar to offer. RocketRob could add the needed 9x10 CF props for instance...

This 210 mph+ purpose designed speed plane will certainly be the fastest commercially available for the F3S-C and D competition class (10 to 15 cc). Undoubtedly future annual US straight line speed events will see this plane way way in the lead of the IC engine powered speed club (Diamond Dust, Whiplash, Magnum,Q500, Q40 pylon etc...).

But also the “big block” speed beginners will have lots of fun during weekly local speed flying sessions with that plane. It has to get a really catchy name (maybe let's do a poll).

So it would - for example - nicely complement the range next to the very different speed approach of the “Screamin' Demon” delta by MikesRC company.





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Old 05-08-2009, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

nicely done I-L-J. so much to absorb but i'm trying.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE


ORIGINAL: BiggerDanno

Here are some pix of it.

What airframe would make a good go-fast for this engine?

I've got a Picco P-80 front intake rear exhaust. I looked at the book that came with mine and I don't see the RIRE AERO version in the book.

There is a P-80 marine that has the same "black picco" carburetor like yours.

You'll have to do the translations

CILINDRATA 13.05cc
CORSA 24.6
ALESAGGIO 26
GIRI 23,000
HP 5.5
PESO g. 840



The book says the GIRI is 14.500 for my engine and it's a pattern type so I'm guessing that your engine will spin an extra 10K.........
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

Yep, that's correct.

The PICCO P80 of BiggerDanno is the ducted fan version of the P80 marine engine.

To convert from marine to aero you just have to swap the watercooled cylinderhead with the finned aero- cooling head. Also the backplate with disc rotor induction and the front bearing housing are mounted vice versa in case of the marine version of the Picco P80.

Same applies to the OPS .65, OPS.67, OPS .80 and the new OPS .90 "bimetal" engine. All can be converted from marine to aero within some minutes.

These OPS engines featuring the disc rotor induction can also be altered to [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7954952/anchors_7990063/mpage_2/key_/anchor/tm.htm#7990063]counter-rotate[/link]!
[8D]

So you can still use the same CF propeller (regular tractor type) in a pusher configuration [sm=thumbup.gif]



CILINDRATA 13.05cc = capacity
CORSA 24.6 = stroke
ALESAGGIO 26 = bore
GIRI 23,000 = rpm
HP 5.5
PESO g. 840 = weight


So the Picco P80 DFengine, sharing identical stroke with the PICCO P67 DF, is a classic short stroker. So is the OPS .80 and OPS .90 bimetal engine.

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Old 05-08-2009, 08:57 PM
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Default RE: Picco .80 RIRE

so where do i sign up for a run of carbon fiber props for my ops and picco engines, por favor!
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