wing tip vortices trails
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wing tip vortices trails
have any of you fellow speed freaks expereinced this with noticeable trails at tips.
Would like to know at what speed and climatic conditions or mods to the tips this is or could be achieved
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
I havent heard about the tip vortices, but i did read about this type of thing a while back and i think it was in the jets forum, there was talk about the fog seen over wings during hi g manouvers it was in florida i think and it was a large heavy jet flying in very humid conditions. you could try asking over there. Greg
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
I haven't seen it, but I have flown through it many times. Use to think it was dumb thumbs when others claimed "bad air", but fly through it a few times and you will become a believer. Normally only see it over 160 mph, but have felt it at 130. Nearly all control is lost and your plane can go in before you knew what happened.
Typically happens if you are slightly behind someone coming around either pylons #3 or #1. Took a couple of smashed planes to learn how to first, try to avoid it, and 2nd if you can get on the sticks quick enough to save it.
Typically happens if you are slightly behind someone coming around either pylons #3 or #1. Took a couple of smashed planes to learn how to first, try to avoid it, and 2nd if you can get on the sticks quick enough to save it.
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
I would think that actually seeing visible moisture caused my wing tip vortices from a model would be rare. It is rare on full size aircraft. It is more likely you would feel it, as Daven pointed out. In full scale we were never concerned about it from a safety point of view unless the other aircraft was much larger then us. However, being right behind someone with a high speed pylon racer in a tight turn could give you a surprise bump from wake turbulence.
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
I heard birds fly in a V. The trailing birds benefit from the vortices of the bird in front, helping them fly easier
BUT I've never seen a bird produce vortices trails, not even a super sonic periquin falcon
BUT I've never seen a bird produce vortices trails, not even a super sonic periquin falcon
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
ORIGINAL: daven
I usually feel it while lapping people, yeah thats it
I usually feel it while lapping people, yeah thats it
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
You're talking about vapor trails off the wing tip vortecies. I think you need substantial wing area to make this happen. I doubt you would see a model do it...
#13
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
It depends on humidity and temperature, conditions that are conducive to creating fog. I've seen it happen behind a car antenna at rather slow speed.
As far as the bad air often found in pylon turns, it is worse with higher wing loadings and high g turns. The trailing airplane has the air disrupted over one side and it stalls. The resulting snap roll usually puts the airplane into the ground. To prevent it, the trailing airplane has to fly inside the lead airplanes path to avoid.
The problem is most dangerous on calm days, as the vortex energy will stay on the course for enough time, you can hit your own wake on the next lap. Even sport airplanes can run into their own vortex on calm days. People often think it is a radio glitch.
As far as the bad air often found in pylon turns, it is worse with higher wing loadings and high g turns. The trailing airplane has the air disrupted over one side and it stalls. The resulting snap roll usually puts the airplane into the ground. To prevent it, the trailing airplane has to fly inside the lead airplanes path to avoid.
The problem is most dangerous on calm days, as the vortex energy will stay on the course for enough time, you can hit your own wake on the next lap. Even sport airplanes can run into their own vortex on calm days. People often think it is a radio glitch.
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
ORIGINAL: mk1spitfire
have any of you fellow speed freaks expereinced this with noticeable trails at tips.
Would like to know at what speed and climatic conditions or mods to the tips this is or could be achieved
have any of you fellow speed freaks expereinced this with noticeable trails at tips.
Would like to know at what speed and climatic conditions or mods to the tips this is or could be achieved
MJD
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
here some wiki on it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices
and induced drag causes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_drag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices
and induced drag causes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_drag
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
ORIGINAL: MJD
Don't know the actual numbers, but as I understand it you need moisture and a lot of dynamic pressure under the wing. Under marginal conditions AFAIK they will appear at the tips only, increase the numbers and it moves along the wing to just about anywhere the high pressure air is exiting behind the surface and expanding rapidly. So my guess is that it is a function of wing loading and atmospheric conditions, and due to the wing loading of typical R/C models achieving this under high G manouevers is still not typical. As someone observed, it was in Florida with a large heavy jet, which it seems moved the pointers up both scales to the "possible" zone.
MJD
ORIGINAL: mk1spitfire
have any of you fellow speed freaks expereinced this with noticeable trails at tips.
Would like to know at what speed and climatic conditions or mods to the tips this is or could be achieved
have any of you fellow speed freaks expereinced this with noticeable trails at tips.
Would like to know at what speed and climatic conditions or mods to the tips this is or could be achieved
MJD
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
But fluid dynamics on a real plane and a small plane is not the same. Just like the Reynolds numbers ... however, it would be cool to see it happen on a RCplane!
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
ORIGINAL: tIANci
But fluid dynamics on a real plane and a small plane is not the same. Just like the Reynolds numbers ... however, it would be cool to see it happen on a RC plane!
But fluid dynamics on a real plane and a small plane is not the same. Just like the Reynolds numbers ... however, it would be cool to see it happen on a RC plane!
?? - I kind of thought it was the same, except for the specific differences due to low Reynold's numbers, mostly the difficulties maintaining laminar flow and whatever inefficiencies that result. But I am pretty sure the primary reason this must be rarely or ever seen on models is that we simply don't work with anywhere near the same kinds of wing loading and the resulting levels of pressure differential and dynamic pressure - otherwise I would have to think we'd need to start looking at aluminum wing skins and way better internal structures and whatever other voodoo would be manatory to keep the wings from disintegrating.
HornetFitter - thanks for the first hand explanation!
MJD
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
I've noticed vapor trails at the wing tips of several commercial flights I've taken.......or was it just smoke billowing out of the hydraulic system?
I've noticed vapor trails at the wing tips of several commercial flights I've taken.......or was it just smoke billowing out of the hydraulic system?
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RE: wing tip vortices trails
Pigman ... did you not rush to get the extinguisher?
MJD ... the votices are seen because air is compressed and there is moisture so we see it. Maybe on our planes the vortices are too small to be seen, we should watch closely with binoculars! Hahahaahaa ...
MJD ... the votices are seen because air is compressed and there is moisture so we see it. Maybe on our planes the vortices are too small to be seen, we should watch closely with binoculars! Hahahaahaa ...