Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

rossi engines, take a look

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Old 06-30-2009, 04:03 PM
  #1  
mk1spitfire
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Default rossi engines, take a look

what do you make of these aero engines. Some great bhp quoted(Without tuned pipe!)

http://www.novarossi.it/content_uk/p...nes/rex/plane/
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look


ORIGINAL: mk1spitfire

what do you make of these aero engines. Some great bhp quoted(Without tuned pipe!)

http://www.novarossi.it/content_uk/p...nes/rex/plane/
.12: $157 x 1.44 = US $226

.15: $205 x 1.44 = US $295

.21: $345 x 1.44 = US $497

Holy crap.

Impressive specs, if you believe the HP numbers in mfg specs.

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Old 06-30-2009, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

Check out the rpm ratings, I don't know what kind of prop that will hold up to that, continuous filament carbon fiber?

Reduction drive?
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

ORIGINAL: freakingfast

Check out the rpm ratings, I don't know what kind of prop that will hold up to that, continuous filament carbon fiber?

Reduction drive?
They sound mighty like a lineup of snotty car engines whittled for aero use. Considering the diameter of the suitable props to take advantage of that high end power, they should be CF/epoxy yes, but they are not under unheard-of amounts of duress.

MJD

edit.. p.s. I'm talking about the .21 down, sorry.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

Knowing the HP is fine for picking out farm equipment, but what I want to know is, what prop at what RPM.
If these guys truly FLY WHAT THEY SELL, they shouldn't have any problem furnishing that info.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:30 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

Go to

www.planethobby.com

They are now NovaRossi/Rex.

Looks like the same engines as before, but a little more money than last year.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:25 AM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

i got a buddy now running the rossi 58 in his heli and there about a 20% power increase from the hyper so i don't doubt these aero engines will perform but as you say lets see some numbers on different props
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

I seen the NovaRossi brochure and been wondering about the peformance. I loved them in my car days, I only use NovaRossi and they were good for sure. Performs well and is easy to tune.
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

ORIGINAL: mk1spitfire

what do you make of these aero engines. Some great bhp quoted(Without tuned pipe!)

http://www.novarossi.it/content_uk/p...nes/rex/plane/
Here's more Novarossi aero engine related info:






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Old 07-01-2009, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

That's very impressive! I've never had a truly HOT .15 for airplane use, which is a shame because that is a fun size of plane to play with.
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

It looks like these engines are the real deal then - cool! Pony up..

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Old 07-01-2009, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

That's very impressive! I've never had a truly HOT .15 for airplane use, which is a shame because that is a fun size of plane to play with.

I wonder if the Cyclon .15 is still a better deal?
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Old 07-03-2009, 02:03 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

Hi!
The Russian 2,5cc glow engines used in Cl-combat are much more powerful than the Nova Rossi.
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Old 07-03-2009, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

specs to back it up?
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Old 07-03-2009, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look


ORIGINAL: I-Love-Jets
Here's more Novarossi aero engine related info:
ILJ - I know on RCgroups you mentioned the Graupner Speed props are popular with these small engines. How fast are people running them? According to the instruction heet that came with them, I am only supposed to run the 6" props to 22,800 rpm - 3428rpm-m/.15m. That's nothing.. but the instructions refer to them as "Super Nylon". So I am wondering if that is the real formula to follow?

Thx

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Old 07-04-2009, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

ORIGINAL: jaka

The Russian 2,5cc glow engines used in Cl-combat are much more powerful than the Nova Rossi.
Sadly all F2D combat engines are not timed right to be used with a full length tuned pipe (that is mandatory in F3S). In addition the F2D exhaust setup is not rear but diagonal. [] The small bore F2D venturi is much too restrictive for F3S – it is optimised for good torque needed in F2D! But F2D engines are super light...

Some pics of the PROFI .15 F2D engine:








Nice pics of the Cyclon .15 PC6 F2D engine: http://www.clcombat.info/pcsix.html



ORIGINAL: mk1spitfire

specs to back it up?
Good F2D engines do typically run about 30.000 rpm at the ground with a 6.2 x 3” prop, but they do not gain much rpm in the air due to the very low pitched F2D props.

F2D vids:
http://www.control-line-team.de/video/MOV01513.MPG
http://www.control-line-team.de/video/MOV01612.MPG



For serious F3S speed competition the only true alternative to the NOVAROSSI REX RFX-15TV engine would be a F2A FAI speed engine with its typical single blade propeller, e.g. the PROFI .15 FAI F2A or CYCLON .15 FAI F2A being very expensive (> 600 USD) and running at ca 40.000 rpm if "on-pipe".

The main reasons why the German F3S Speed Cup contenders haven't used the F2A engine/prop setup so far is the cost factor on the one hand and the super critical F2A engine behaviour on the other hand.

The F2A engine exhaust timing is ultra high - meaning the tuned pipe length is to be set very short. In fact the engine cannot jump into resonance at the ground reliably (in F2A competition the engine reaches resonance and thus doubles rpm after a few laps earliest!). After pinching the fuel line (to let the F2A engine jump into resonance stage) the time to take off a F3S R/C speed plane will be too short potentially to provide a secure take-off with an F2A engine. But if - sometimes in future - somebody successfully will get a purpose built F3S speed plane with a true F2A engine/prop setup into the air, the speeds sure will exceed 200 mph on the 200 m FAI speed trap (being a big problem for the pilot potentially because of perceptibility issues due to the small airframe size [:@] ).

F2A vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiNE8Rc0ckw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGBHips72TA

I you are interested in watching super fast F3S speed planes please go to [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12582700&postcount=72]this page[/link] and download the Speed Cup videos...

Finally some pics of the year 2008 PROFI .15 FAI F2A engine:

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Old 07-04-2009, 11:58 AM
  #17  
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

ORIGINAL: MJD

I know on RCgroups you mentioned the Graupner Speed props are popular with these small engines. How fast are people running them? According to the instruction heet that came with them, I am only supposed to run the 6'' props to 22,800 rpm - 3428rpm-m/.15m. That's nothing.. but the instructions refer to them as ''Super Nylon''. So I am wondering if that is the real formula to follow?
Well that below official Graupner safety note PDF is the standard note covering most plastic props sold by Graupner.

http://www.graupner.de/fileadmin/dow...tschrauben.pdf



So this note covers the

Graupner Speed Prop series (white labelling)
Black coloured with very elaborated aerodynamic design and with 8 mm diameter hub bore. If you don't want to make your own carbon fiber speed props these Graupner speed props are highly recommended to use with IC speed engines up to 3.5 cc running over 30.000 rpm - they wont break! [sm=thumbup.gif] They can be shortened and re-balanced easily. These speed props require an aluminium bushing to match the crankshaft diameter for proper centering..

Graupner CAM Speed Prop series (pink labelling)
Black coloured with super thin airfoil design. Only little torsional stiffness! Not suitable for nitro speed applications! Do only use them with electric motors because they are too wobbly in combination with our not 100% counter-balanceable reciproking nitro engines! The CAM Speed Prop 4.7x4.7” for instance often is used for F5D electric pylon racing at rpm up to 45.000.

Graupner CAM Prop series (pink labelling)
Sport props with very elaborated aerodynamic design. Not suitable for speed applications. Please follow the Graupner safety note when using these props!

Graupner Super Nylon Props (the grey ones)
“Old fashioned“ in terms of aerodynamics, grey coloured sport prop series. Not suitable for speed applications. This grey nylon material must always contain a certain amount of water – so they should be kept permanently in a pot of water when not going to the flying field. Please follow the Graupner safety note when using these grey props!

Graupner ECO CAM PROP
Sport props with very elaborated aerodynamic design. Glass-reinforced polyamide material. Not suitable for speed applications. Please follow the Graupner safety note when using these props!


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Old 07-10-2009, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

Here we see a typical low drag purpose built speed plane very suitable for the 2.5 cc "small block" Novarossi. Such airframes represent the smallest in the F3S speed class at wingspans of 80 to 90 cm. It is not advisable to build smaller planes because
[ul][*] the automatic photoelectrical measuring system of the 200 m speed trap won't detect them reliably and[*] the pilot runs into visibility problems potentially
[/ul]
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:54 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look


ORIGINAL: I-Love-Jets

Graupner Speed Prop series (white labelling)
Black coloured with very elaborated aerodynamic design and with 8 mm diameter hub bore. If you don't want to make your own carbon fiber speed props these Graupner speed props are highly recommended to use with IC speed engines up to 3.5 cc running over 30.000 rpm - they wont break! [sm=thumbup.gif] They can be shortened and re-balanced easily. These speed props require an aluminium bushing to match the crankshaft diameter for proper centering..
Thanks for the info - those are the props I was asking about. I shall go ahead and run mine on the OPS .15 then! I will use bushings of course.

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Old 07-14-2009, 05:16 AM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

ORIGINAL: MJD

Thanks for the info - those are the props I was asking about. I shall go ahead and run mine on the OPS .15 then! I will use bushings of course.
Yep, these Graupner Speed props (non- CAM version) are well suited also for any 2.5 or 3.5 OPS speed engine.

So what .15 OPS engine do you have? - There are several FISE ( "SLA" ) and FIRE ( "SPA" ) versions, differently timed and with different carb bore diameter.

Please tell us [ul][*] the stock exhaust timing of your OPS [*] the carb bore and the crankshaft bore dia[*] the speed plane airframe
[/ul]
so that it is possible to determine the right prop size and tuned pipe length.


BTW, especially the “small block“ [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1073318]NOVAROSSI / REX 2.5 and 3.5 cc aero engines[/link] are worth every cent. We have to remind that these are very hard to beat power-wise in F3S...

For instance in Germany the 2.5 cc NOVAROSSI REX RFX-15TV will cost you EUR 187 being a bargain compared to a similar powerful converted high-end car engine (twice as expensive) or versus the already mentioned ultra hot F2A set-up (four times as expensive). Planethobby does sell the RFX-15TV for only 199 US$ !

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Old 07-14-2009, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look


ORIGINAL: I-Love-Jets
Yep, these Graupner Speed props (non- CAM version) are well suited also for any 2.5 or 3.5 OPS speed engine.

So what .15 OPS engine do you have? - There are several FISE ( ''SLA'' ) and FIRE ( ''SPA'' ) versions, differently timed and with different carb bore diameter.
OPS .15 Speed SLA, FISE, Perry carb with ~6mm bore. I think this is the configuration OPS lists on their engine chart at 0.65hp @ 23,000 rpm? What do you know about these?

I bought it because it is brand new and I got it at a good price AFAIK. And, I just wanted it because it was there and it is an OPS. I have not degreed an engine before, but it's not rocket science and I figure I can handle it.

For now I plan to fit it to a silly little sport speed delta I am building - I figure it has to be good for 200kph with a sensible prop selection and the pipe set up right. Later I'll build a more speed-dedicated model, but I would of course rather have a RE engine for that.

I planned to start with a 6x5.5" prop and go from there.

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Old 07-14-2009, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look


Because we're now focusing on OPS rather than NOVAROSSI or ROSSI, I added your question to the [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12495404]The OPS engine thread[/link] (post #40).
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: rossi engines, take a look

I actually have what is called a "Club 20" pylon racing airplane, a Flow-Line exactly.
It's 80cm wing span, powered with a REX .20 and an APC 6x7 (slightly shortened) and composite props are forbidden.
Hits around 24krpm on ground.

Waiting for the new REX 7 transfers to come out.
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