Straight Line Speed Organization
06-25-2003, 07:59 PM
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Straight Line Speed Pilots:
I have been in contact with Steve Kaluf who is the director of contests for the AMA and is also the head person from the US for the world sanctioning body for world records "FAI".
Anyway I have been talking to him about having various classes of speed planes for competition purposes. It appears there is a tremendous amount of red tape to work through the AMA to have various classes of straight line speed. Currently there is one. The FAI 10cc straight line speed event.
I proposed to the AMA the following classes in displacement in cubic inches.
Up to .32
Up to .50
Up to 1.00
The real problem with the AMA seems to be with red tape. They won't even consider a proposal until Jan. 2005 and then it won't be looked at until after October 2005. Then there is a 2 year period before it goes into their rule books if it is approved.
Proposing rule changes with the current 10cc record is just as bad and has to go through the AMA and then on to the FAI for their consideration in rule changes. As you all well know there are no decent 10cc engines made today. A few old .65's yes, but no high performance .61's.
So what I am looking at is the potential for an organization of straight line speed pilots to govern their own flying styles and meet twice maybe 3 times a year to fly, push the envelope, if you want, run through a set of video traps that could save your run time on CD-Rom. Operations would be the same manner as the JPO (jet pilots organization) outlines the flying of model jets. Their records are established under JPO rules not AMA.
The question is, how many pilots would want to be a part of this straight line speed organization and would you actually be interested in attending a straight line speed event held in different parts of the country 2-3 times a year so it is reasonably close geographically where you live at least once a year.
I know most guys flying fast planes just want to fly fast and could care less about competition. This event is not just about competing, but is the chance to get together and share in flying fast planes together.
This forum is the only place I know of that offers the RC pilot the chance to voice an opinion on straight line speed flying.
Tell me what you think? Is ther enough interest in speed pilots to have fun flying fast together as a group?
Bob Holmes
Blue Skyy
I have been in contact with Steve Kaluf who is the director of contests for the AMA and is also the head person from the US for the world sanctioning body for world records "FAI".
Anyway I have been talking to him about having various classes of speed planes for competition purposes. It appears there is a tremendous amount of red tape to work through the AMA to have various classes of straight line speed. Currently there is one. The FAI 10cc straight line speed event.
I proposed to the AMA the following classes in displacement in cubic inches.
Up to .32
Up to .50
Up to 1.00
The real problem with the AMA seems to be with red tape. They won't even consider a proposal until Jan. 2005 and then it won't be looked at until after October 2005. Then there is a 2 year period before it goes into their rule books if it is approved.
Proposing rule changes with the current 10cc record is just as bad and has to go through the AMA and then on to the FAI for their consideration in rule changes. As you all well know there are no decent 10cc engines made today. A few old .65's yes, but no high performance .61's.
So what I am looking at is the potential for an organization of straight line speed pilots to govern their own flying styles and meet twice maybe 3 times a year to fly, push the envelope, if you want, run through a set of video traps that could save your run time on CD-Rom. Operations would be the same manner as the JPO (jet pilots organization) outlines the flying of model jets. Their records are established under JPO rules not AMA.
The question is, how many pilots would want to be a part of this straight line speed organization and would you actually be interested in attending a straight line speed event held in different parts of the country 2-3 times a year so it is reasonably close geographically where you live at least once a year.
I know most guys flying fast planes just want to fly fast and could care less about competition. This event is not just about competing, but is the chance to get together and share in flying fast planes together.
This forum is the only place I know of that offers the RC pilot the chance to voice an opinion on straight line speed flying.
Tell me what you think? Is ther enough interest in speed pilots to have fun flying fast together as a group?
Bob Holmes
Blue Skyy
06-25-2003, 08:21 PM
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Sign me up. If the control line folks can have their speed event, why not RC? My only suggestion is a single .40 class, rather than a .32 and .50, for a couple of reasons. Simpler the better, and less classes would be simpler. Second, the class would take advantage of the pylon engines, e.g., Nelson and Jett Q40's and FAI's, and MB FAI.
Paul
Paul
06-25-2003, 08:42 PM
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Yeah. agree to a certain extent..but I think you might need to refine your classes just a tad.
I see where Bob is coming from, he has .90 sized DF engines and can't find any .61's (10CC). So having a class from .50 to 1.00 would put him near the top of the heap. Most of my engines are .61 to .81 (the higher revving ones, anyway) so I would be a quite a disadvantage running against the current generation of .90 class DF engines. Sure, I could buy a whole new set of engines, or stay home.
Anyone want to take a guess which one it'll be??
If it's going to be a totally new event, why not set it up with the classes broke down into .10 cu in steps or something. Have a .90 to 1.0 cu in class and let those guys spend whatever they want to, fine by me. Would make the competition a lot closer..you would have to work to design a plane, not just have a Platinum Card.
My $.02
I see where Bob is coming from, he has .90 sized DF engines and can't find any .61's (10CC). So having a class from .50 to 1.00 would put him near the top of the heap. Most of my engines are .61 to .81 (the higher revving ones, anyway) so I would be a quite a disadvantage running against the current generation of .90 class DF engines. Sure, I could buy a whole new set of engines, or stay home.
Anyone want to take a guess which one it'll be??
If it's going to be a totally new event, why not set it up with the classes broke down into .10 cu in steps or something. Have a .90 to 1.0 cu in class and let those guys spend whatever they want to, fine by me. Would make the competition a lot closer..you would have to work to design a plane, not just have a Platinum Card.
My $.02
06-25-2003, 10:39 PM
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Excellent point from both of you. The classes above were what was kicked around with the AMA. I see no reason to limit anything here. I think AMA preferred broader classes, but if they aren't involved in the organizational aspects, it will be open to what the Extreme speed flyers in the group want to do.
I have also talked to suppliers and distributors about putting up prizes if we make this a sanctioned flying event. In the past I have also raised over a $1,000 in cash for an event as prize money for various competitions. I see no reason this couldn't be done as well for a straight line speed R/C event.
Again it takes pilots in attendance to make this kind of event work. If the pilots are there, everyone else will be behind us as well.
Let's see what kind of reception we get from the Extreme Speed Prop Planes forum.
Blue Skyy
I have also talked to suppliers and distributors about putting up prizes if we make this a sanctioned flying event. In the past I have also raised over a $1,000 in cash for an event as prize money for various competitions. I see no reason this couldn't be done as well for a straight line speed R/C event.
Again it takes pilots in attendance to make this kind of event work. If the pilots are there, everyone else will be behind us as well.
Let's see what kind of reception we get from the Extreme Speed Prop Planes forum.
Blue Skyy
06-25-2003, 11:06 PM
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After reading my post again (I was trying to wrap things up at work and was kinda rushing) I feel like I came across as a little critical.
With any class I guess you'll always have somebody who feels like they are at a disadvantage, or doesn't feel that the equipment they have is optimum for the class, especially with an entirely new event. Here I am griping about having to run against a 90DF, I guess if all I had was a .50 I'd really be bent out of shape!
Just by narrowing the displacement differential of the class will have the effect of tightening the competition within that class.
I think that is the key issue. Close competition. A contest where the planes are very close in speed would be exciting. More closely spaced classes would help realize that. Sure, it will still be a $$$ war, no way around that.
Probably need an Unlimited class, also. I'm sure one of the Giant Scale racers will want his shot, too.
I also think pdxpaul makes a great point about the .40 class. Have a class just for them, there are bound to be plenty of surplus "last years" engines out there, and they are gonna put a serious hurt on anybody with a .32 (or even most .50's, probably). Guys could run their pylon racers in a straight line and compete.
With any class I guess you'll always have somebody who feels like they are at a disadvantage, or doesn't feel that the equipment they have is optimum for the class, especially with an entirely new event. Here I am griping about having to run against a 90DF, I guess if all I had was a .50 I'd really be bent out of shape!
Just by narrowing the displacement differential of the class will have the effect of tightening the competition within that class.
I think that is the key issue. Close competition. A contest where the planes are very close in speed would be exciting. More closely spaced classes would help realize that. Sure, it will still be a $$$ war, no way around that.
Probably need an Unlimited class, also. I'm sure one of the Giant Scale racers will want his shot, too.
I also think pdxpaul makes a great point about the .40 class. Have a class just for them, there are bound to be plenty of surplus "last years" engines out there, and they are gonna put a serious hurt on anybody with a .32 (or even most .50's, probably). Guys could run their pylon racers in a straight line and compete.
06-26-2003, 12:35 AM
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I think you don't need a lot of engine displacement classes... If you run a smaller engine, you also design a smaller plane...
If there were to be rules on the size of the plane a certain engine is on, this is a whole other deal of course... but I don't think this will be the case, will it?
You're right about the FAI .40 racing engines though... they should compete in a separate class... no sport engine can match their performance...
A totally unlimited class would be cool (talking $$$ here)... It is always nice to see what people with plenty of money come up with...
If there were to be rules on the size of the plane a certain engine is on, this is a whole other deal of course... but I don't think this will be the case, will it?
You're right about the FAI .40 racing engines though... they should compete in a separate class... no sport engine can match their performance...
A totally unlimited class would be cool (talking $$$ here)... It is always nice to see what people with plenty of money come up with...
06-26-2003, 02:03 AM
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Unlimited class with recipricating engines using propellors. This has to be a prop plane event only.
Hey these are just opinions and everyone has their own voice for what they want to do. I like hearing your honest statements so it gets done right the first time.
I'm sure there are scale and sport guys with F-20s and Patriots looking for a class to run it too.
We awarded in 1999 at an event we had in Charleston around 20 different catagories of flying so all the bases were covered.
It can get complicated and did that year to a degree.
Blue Skyy
Hey these are just opinions and everyone has their own voice for what they want to do. I like hearing your honest statements so it gets done right the first time.
I'm sure there are scale and sport guys with F-20s and Patriots looking for a class to run it too.
We awarded in 1999 at an event we had in Charleston around 20 different catagories of flying so all the bases were covered.
It can get complicated and did that year to a degree.
Blue Skyy
06-26-2003, 02:12 AM
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I would just focus on engine displacement..I think common sense would dictate the size of the airframe. Much like CL Speed, a big bulky airframe won't be competitive but a guy with an F-20 or Patriot should be able to run the trap just to get a slip IMHO.
07-20-2003, 03:56 PM
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Sounds interesting. A larger number of classes would give everyone a opportunity to find his 'niche'. Lets not forget the .049 - .061 speed merchants that have 100 mph small planes.
You could start classes at:
.049 - .061
.070 - .090
.100 - .150 (this size would be ideal for a Diesel class)
.190 - .250
.280 - .320 (or .350)
.............. and so on.
No custom built engines/exhausts. All stock, readily available parts except for the open (money is no object crowd) class.
The emphasis should be on airframe design i.e. no cross section limits or limits on wing area and weight. Lets see how small an airframe we can build and still stuff in a 2 - 4 channel radio. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I don't have a fully equipped machine shop for custom engine manufacture but do have the basic equipment required to build a balsa/ply/fiberglass/CF airframe.
I'm interested to see what sort of innovative designs some of the guys can come up with. After seeing what kind of talent is on the RC-UNIVERSE web site I don't think I will be disappointed.
Anyway, that's my nickel's worth for now.
You could start classes at:
.049 - .061
.070 - .090
.100 - .150 (this size would be ideal for a Diesel class)
.190 - .250
.280 - .320 (or .350)
.............. and so on.
No custom built engines/exhausts. All stock, readily available parts except for the open (money is no object crowd) class.
The emphasis should be on airframe design i.e. no cross section limits or limits on wing area and weight. Lets see how small an airframe we can build and still stuff in a 2 - 4 channel radio. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I don't have a fully equipped machine shop for custom engine manufacture but do have the basic equipment required to build a balsa/ply/fiberglass/CF airframe.
I'm interested to see what sort of innovative designs some of the guys can come up with. After seeing what kind of talent is on the RC-UNIVERSE web site I don't think I will be disappointed.
Anyway, that's my nickel's worth for now.
