Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

I would like to know if anyone is using the recommended Himax power combo for Multiplex Funjet ultra. So far this these have been nothing but bad. I have purchased two of these and cook the ESC during first flights at about 1/2 to 3/4 throttle on both. About 300.00 down the drain. Have had ESCs repaired three times each. What settings are you using for the ESC. Their package comes with 2900kv motor, Castle creations 75 ice lite ESC and APC 6X5.5 prop. I'm using SKY lipo 3 cell 4400 with 40c and 80c burst. I'm using recommended setting from Max. Normal timing with PWM rate set at 16Khz per their recently updated instructions that come with the package. Only pulling about 60 amps until the esc cooks and then amps spike off the carts. I would like to understand if this is a product problem or something that I am doing wrong in the settings. www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-264.html

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

I have exactly the same combo and it goes like stink. I have done nothing to the settings on the ESC, I pulled the stuff out of the package, installed it and flew it. I use 2500mAh 3S 50C packs.

The only air the ESC gets is from the front inlet. Is there any reason the airflow might not be as good as it could? That big battery pack for instance - is there room around it for the cooling air that is supposed to scoop under the front of the canopy? Is the battery pack angled across the fuse and blocking airflow? I tend to think this model has pretty minimal airflow stock, this is the first thing that came to mind reading about your problems.

How long are you running it static?

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

The ESC cooks is the first 30 seconds while bench testing. The battery is large but I can't even get flight time to create any heat before is self destructs. I lay the battery on its side to allow air flow. I have added an air scoop above the esc and another in the back by the motor. Wish I could get it into the air. I was thinking a larger amp ESC but it should run with what was supplied in the package. Makes a crazy noise just before it self destructs. When I talked to MAX they said that the esc can't keep up with the RPM on the motor and that I should set up the esc with PWM at 16KKhz. Tried the 16Khz yesterday and another blown ESC. Thanks for the info at least I know that the system has the ability to work correctly. I wouldn't think that I bought two of these and they are both bad from the factory.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Wow, I don't know what to think. Mine has a habit, when I push full throttle, of pausing at about 75% rpm for a second before jumping up to full bore. Sounds like that is related to MAX's comment about the ESC.

Bench testing I can understand, isn't the full throttle current draw about 80 amps? [as an electric dabbler I don't own an appropriate meter]. I can see a 75A ESC not liking that on a bench run for 30s. But you say it also cooks in the air?

Not sure what to think of that. Wish I had something useful to offer.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

what is the inflight rpm and ground rpm, where is the timing on the ice lite. do you have it set at automatice/outrunner or did you change that also. do you have the correct pole count in the ice lite also?

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

CD if the ESC is cooking in about 30 seconds it sounds like it is undersized for the draw. On the MAX website they spec a 80 amp ESC as what is needed, I suspect that is your issue.
I am using a 2850 KV motor and with a 6X5.5 APC prop the CC Ice controller said I was drawing about 90 amps peak on a three cell with it. Now I am using a ICE 100 with the dual heat sinks (not the lite) and it has held up fine.
Were you able to download the data off of the ESC to see what was happening during your test? While you can possibly push them a bit harder they need lots of cooling to work. Personally I always use a ESC that can handle at least 25% more power than the motor can handle just to be safe and it is common electrical engineering practice to do so as well.
Keep in mind that even doing a bench test it is imperative that you keep air flowing over the esc, they require at least a 5 mph airflow over the esc for it to work properly.
Also check on the settings for timing that Airraptor mentioned that can cause some issues if you have it set wrong.

My gut feeling is the ESC isn't big enough, and that's the real problem...

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Looking at the data sheet for the motor they rate the power draw with a 6X5 prop as 75 amps with that motor. My guess is that you are drawing a 90 amp peak surge at start up (not a big deal) and the 75 amps at typical draw static load with the prop (that's close to the figures I see with ny 2850 kv motor and a 6X5 prop). This is the peak power rating for your esc and if you look at the CC site they tell you you need at least a 20 mph wind over the esc to be able to operate at that power level. That reinforces my opinion that ESC will not work it's too low of a rating unless you are positive your getting that type of airflow over the ESC. If you look at your data from the ESC it should show you the temp I'd be willing to bet it is maxed out over 180 degrees... bye bye esc.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

I was thinking about it call CC and ask if the data portion of the ESC will function even if the Main power in is shorted because of the ESC short. If the logic portion is isolated from the mains you could read the data and check the temperature data I'm willing to bet that's where the issue lies. The data logging portion of theses controllers are one of the major benefits of these controllers you can see what is going on in the air.
High power electrics are VERY temperature dependent and where your running about 90% of rated power I pretty sure overheating is the issue.
And the problem here is the chip temperature sometimes will get too hot even before the heat sink heats up.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

The info I saw somewhere, maybe the website where I bought my package, said typical current draw static at full bore is 84 amps. I would imagine that goes down with airspeed. Mine has the same Ice Lite 75 controller, APC 6x5.5E prop, etc, I have made no programming changes or setup of any kind, and it has about thirty flights without melting. I also don't spend the entire flight at full throttle, but I often fly 15-20 seconds at a time at 100%, and have in the past flown most of the flight at 100%. I never run static more than 2-3 seconds however.

I should borrow a meter and check out static draw.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Here is a video showing the problem that I am having. Toward the end of the video you can hear the sound that I am getting when things go wrong. If I allow this to happen a couple of times it will cook the ESC.
http://youtu.be/CsDKcVrZpF8

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Looking at the power meter my opinion it's not a issue of the motor/prop being too much load for the ESC.

From seeing the video, it sounds like:

A A timing issue (do you have the right pole count programed into the ESC?)
B Try setting the timing to low or soft manually and see if that helps.

Also:

C The motor or bearings binding (easy enough to check) but I doubt it.
D The leads to the battery too long, causing ripple and stressing the electrolyte capacitors on the main power input. (again unlikely but possible)
E If the current limiter is cutting in and out causing the pulsing which would cause repeated full power spikes as it cycled on and off which would fry the esc.


The motor should not be surging like that it should be fairly steady did you reduce the throttle during the video when the power first dropped?
See if you can connect the ESC to the USB interface and see if you can get the data off of it that would tell you what the ESC is actually doing I'd email CC and ask what their opinion was rather than HiMax send them a link to the video as well they may see something they would want you to check.

I do recall something about CC controllers having issues with high pole count high rpm setups...

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

The motor did not surge it was me running the throttle up then down and up again until it went into crazy mode. I don't see where you can adjust the pole count in the cc software. When I download the data it shows a 16 pole count and I can only adjust it in the downloaded data not in the ESC. Should be set for 14 poles. It shows no amp or temp spikes in the data.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

The crazy mode is what I referred to as surging, it was almost like the power was cut and then turned quickly back on several times. If your at the 70 amp setting for current limiting the current limiter may be cycling on or off, or if your getting ripple the low voltage setting may be kicking in and then off, either way that should not be happening.
What you see in the data is going to be limited by the data rate you have set, it will miss quick spikes, if you have a low sample rate set long time duration recording. I am glad you were able to see the data and not see gross errors did you look to see what you ripple was that the data recorded? How was the battery voltage under load?
Duh! Your right the esc doesn't care about how many poles, that is only used to calculate the RPM...

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

One other thing I would try is to run it without the power meter in series with the batter, believe it or not the voltage drop through insertion loss caused by the meter can play with you, Then try it with the highest data rate (shortest duration) selected for data logging and you may see some abnormality in the data output. As I said before if you have your data logging set up for long duration you may not be able to see any transient abnormality that may be occurring and the higher rate would give you a better view of what is happening in the minute or so of testing you are doing...
Perhaps MJD could look through his setting with the same motor and have you set yours up the same way. Where his is working, it would give you some know good setting with that motor to work with, and see what type of results you get.

Also try it with a smaller or no prop if it works I would say it isn't the timing (per say) it will spin at a higher rpm with no or less of a load, that would indicate that it is voltage or current related.
I know this may be frustrating, but in electronics that's par for the course.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Your right the draw will drop as the speed increases (prop unloads). I would expect that at full bore at high speed the current draw would drop as low as 65 amps or so, I have heard 20% as a figure of what the drop is.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Guys thanks for the help. I will get some of the logged data and post it on Monday so that you can have a look. I also plan on contacting CC on Monday. I'll let you know what their tech support has to say. Stay tuned and thanks for the support.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Good luck with all this. While I did not have any suggestions to fix the problem, I hope my experience suggests that this package does work out of the box, or at least should.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

MJD your posted information that showed the setup worked is invaluable, and showed there is a problem in either the parts or settings.
Trying to diagnose a problem like this remotely is not a easy task but I bet the guys at CC will have the answer for him.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

i can change the pole count in my ICE 75 Lite.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Did you have the chance to look at his video?
It sounds like it is cutting in and out when peaked.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

From what I read, he has not flown this plane, all testing has been done on the bench where there is ZERO airflow...

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

I had similar concerns when he mentioned 30 second bench runs. I limit mine to 2-3 seconds, just to see if it spools up or not. But on the video, everything is out in the breeze and it acts up immediately, not after a period of time where it could heat up. At least I presume it has not been "preheated" before the video.

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

OK so I called CC today and they said to set the PWM at 12 and use low timing. The link below is with these settings. Still did not fix the problem.
When I made the comment in earlier posts about 30 second bench test I was just saying that it was a short test. All testing on the bench has been very short. Pretty much what you see in the video just a few seconds and not building heat. I'm surprised that the ESC has not cooked yet. I will post the data down load from the ESC shortly. As soon as I figure out how to format it so that RC universe will accept it. I have had some short flight time with this plane but all have ended quickly. As soon as this issue happens in the air it is lights out and straight to the ground. Some how I have purchased two of these Max products combos with the same issues. Looks like I will contact CC again on Tuesday. Stay tuned and if you any suggestions I would love to hear from you.
http://youtu.be/sf6rex8AXNc

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Here is the data down load from the ESC. You can see the current spike at around line item 140. Hope you don't get sea sick watching as it scrolls through the data. With this kind of spike I'm surprised that I haven't cooked the ESC.
http://youtu.be/nzpZEJkeeSo

RE: Himax power combo HC3514-2900 for Funjet ultra
 

Airrapter - Please let me know where to change the pole count in the programming. I can only change it in the down loaded data.