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-   -   Picco 45 DF (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/extreme-speed-prop-planes-104/11256512-picco-45-df.html)

bpbrinson 10-09-2012 09:04 AM

Picco 45 DF
 
1 Attachment(s)
Just to let you guys know..... http://www.ebay.com/itm/290787814256...84.m1558.l2649

airraptor 10-09-2012 01:04 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
looks well used.

combatpigg 10-09-2012 02:01 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: airraptor

looks well used.
That's why it's difficult for a lot of guys to sell their used engines with a clear conscience.
Unless the price is really low or if the engine's internals has passed a real close and through inspection by the owner. Thankfully the market still has a lot of neat old engines that never got used.

airraptor 10-09-2012 02:22 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
yes i know. when i sell new or used engines i will take a pic of the exhaust, to see the piston and as many pics as feasable. i was mainly looking at the front of the pipes where they look like they were rubbing/banging against the engine. I havent looked at the Ebay add yet though. I wonder how the Picco compairs to the OS or K&B DF engines in this size.

bpbrinson 10-09-2012 02:22 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
15 years in an attic in southeast Texas, you would look well used also. I can assure you it has not even had a glow plug screwed in. Minor aluminum oxidation causing minimum outer discoloration. Inside still had oil it was packed with. That is why I said never ran, did not say new. It was new when I bought it with 2 others in about 1988. Box lost but have book.

Brooks

bpbrinson 10-09-2012 02:24 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
Pipes are very well used, one crashed but usable. I did have 2 other Picco's. Been flying fast a long time. Just because you guys dont see someone post does not mean every one else flies slow....:D


Brooks

MJD 10-09-2012 03:11 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
RVman had one in his Screamin Demon, I recall it moved along "real good" but I can't quantify the engine beyond that. It was the first rear exhaust Demon I ever launched, I remember the pipe blasting at my face and my eyes watering from the rich exhaust nitro fumes.. :D

bpbrinson 10-09-2012 03:25 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: airraptor

yes i know. when i sell new or used engines i will take a pic of the exhaust, to see the piston and as many pics as feasable. i was mainly looking at the front of the pipes where they look like they were rubbing/banging against the engine. I havent looked at the Ebay add yet though. I wonder how the Picco compairs to the OS or K&B DF engines in this size.
I have ran the K&B (mine)and the old OS FI/RE (buddies). The Picco, comparatively is a brick, very heavy. Seems with the pumped K&B that I was only getting upper 22k and the OS was in the lower to mid 23's with 7.2x8.6. With the Picco I was getting in the low to mid 24's. The K&B was a pain to get set up with the pump but otherwise was easy to run if you did not change load to much. Wished I could tell you my pipe measurement. And it looks like the APC 7.2x8.6 is no longer made. I flew these engines on modified quickees, a Holy Smoke, several Diamond Dusts and a very thin delta that I will not say how fast it went as some here will will get nasty. Not sure I believe it myself[&:]. Picco's are beasts if allowed to rev... Besides electric is the fastest:)

Brooks

airraptor 10-09-2012 08:47 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
nah no one gets mad just a bunch of non believers. tell us how fast....

bpbrinson 10-09-2012 09:15 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is a pic of an average run on that day. Did get a 213 on one run. Was not too sure about that one. Wished I had a pic of the plane,I think those pics ended up at an ex's house. It was a foam core, glassed 33" delta with a 3.75% at root airfoil (9/16 thick at thickest). Everything was faired in and clean. It died a 180+ death. Bent shaft on Picco. This was about 1995. Now my fast plane is a 1.8 m 4000watt 170+ hotliner. Much easier to fly and see at my old age.

Brooks

combatpigg 10-09-2012 09:55 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
Nice work!
The 7.2 x 8.6.......
I loved this prop and ran it on my 1st Nelson FAI .40...but it was a slight overload for the .40 right out of the bag. It ran so hot that the silicone pipe seals melted every run.

bpbrinson 10-09-2012 10:48 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
Yes, I had to cut cooling holes in my fairing work or otherwise cook under the faired area. I blew silicone often. I did cut down that prop to at or just under 7 inches. Some one posted a while back that a 45 could not do 200. I disagree, obviously, did it often. But physics will not allow much more with the high rev props. The helical tip speed of a 7 inch prop looses so much efficiency due to getting close to trans sonic speeds. A 7 inch prop at 25000 and 200 MPH is getting very close to mach .85 or more. Getting very close to limits and efficiency is taking a dive. Only way to lower tip speeds is to go with a smaller prop. Some electric guys are turning =/- 5 inch props near 50,000 and going 225 or so with small very clean F5D airplanes. The newest movement I am watching is the geared 10x23 folders that tip speeds are still around mach .5 and have great thrust. Lots of F5D guys are playing with those setups. The F5S guys are using 25 inch pitch with larger props to go 260+. Many are pushing close to 10KW to do that. Thats 13 hp!!!!![X(] My hotliner is 4000 watts+ in and about 3300 watts (4.4hp) to prop with a 18x21. Tip speeds are still under Mach .65. It can accelerate from launch to 150+ in about 3 seconds flat. I am limited to 3-5 second bursts of power or let the majic smoke out. It is also much easier to make and electric aerodynamic than a slimer. Don't get me wrong, slimers are fun and fast, but if you want to go REAL fast electric is starting to be the way to go.

Sorry, got long winded[8D]
Brooks

Petrovsky 10-10-2012 12:01 AM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
No international buyers :(

BiggerDanno 10-10-2012 09:08 AM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
I have one of these new waiting for me to build my Screaming Demon.
Need a header, anyone make one or have a spare?

combatpigg 10-10-2012 04:30 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: bpbrinson
Besides electric is the fastest:)

Brooks
Electric motors have no soul.
Engines "come to life".
When Jim Green fired up one of his 427 Ford "Cammers" at a local Cacklefest ...just to let the crowd hear it run, it brought a tear to my eyes.
I just can't picture myself ever getting a little emotional if some guy flipped a switch on a 2500 HP electric motor.

lfinney 10-10-2012 04:41 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
i just received my headers from Mac's products, and it was for a 3+2 long stroke rossi, they either have or will make headers for the rear exhaust piccos, they have the side exhaust picco headers in stock, i dropped by last time i was in sac and bought some for my picco's...

MJD 10-10-2012 06:37 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: bpbrinson

Yes, I had to cut cooling holes in my fairing work or otherwise cook under the faired area. I blew silicone often. I did cut down that prop to at or just under 7 inches. Some one posted a while back that a 45 could not do 200. I disagree, obviously, did it often. But physics will not allow much more with the high rev props. The helical tip speed of a 7 inch prop looses so much efficiency due to getting close to trans sonic speeds. A 7 inch prop at 25000 and 200 MPH is getting very close to mach .85 or more. Getting very close to limits and efficiency is taking a dive. Only way to lower tip speeds is to go with a smaller prop. Some electric guys are turning =/- 5 inch props near 50,000 and going 225 or so with small very clean F5D airplanes. The newest movement I am watching is the geared 10x23 folders that tip speeds are still around mach .5 and have great thrust. Lots of F5D guys are playing with those setups. The F5S guys are using 25 inch pitch with larger props to go 260+. Many are pushing close to 10KW to do that. Thats 13 hp!!!!![X(] My hotliner is 4000 watts+ in and about 3300 watts (4.4hp) to prop with a 18x21. Tip speeds are still under Mach .65. It can accelerate from launch to 150+ in about 3 seconds flat. I am limited to 3-5 second bursts of power or let the majic smoke out. It is also much easier to make and electric aerodynamic than a slimer. Don't get me wrong, slimers are fun and fast, but if you want to go REAL fast electric is starting to be the way to go.

Sorry, got long winded[8D]
Brooks
I would say this is approaching the limit for a normally aspirated .40 c.i. glow engine in a model controlled via human eyesight: [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpEmZt3bJk&list=UU7ZSke569tjP85hT3ef071g& index=5&feature=plcp]MB .40 powered speed model[/link]

The prop diameter associated with raising the rpm further to gain hp, in combination with the frontal area constraints probably mean diminishing returns are lurking around the corner. And keeping the engine together I guess.

airraptor 10-10-2012 07:42 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
Yes the electric stuff is super easy to hit 240 plus. They are running low 52s on the pylon course now. I think they are on 7x14 props around 22,000. I love to see those hot liners fly launch to 150 mph straight up. I love gas/glow stuff also. I have a little profi 21 I need to put on something.....

combatpigg 10-10-2012 10:29 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
My Nelson 40 hits 30,000 in the air with a 6.75" x 7 prop. I don't recall trying less diameter than that...since the hand launches were pretty wimpy for the first 20 feet after leaving my hand. IIRC the launch rpm has to be no higher than 22,000 on that prop because of no inflight mixture control. So, 3 pounds of thrust to launch a 4 pound model.

combatpigg 10-12-2012 08:48 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
Let's see some threads about engines like this Picco .45 submitted here by true hotrodders.

lfinney 10-16-2012 01:23 PM

RE: Picco 45 DF
 
the two pipes in the pics with the .45 picco , one is a picco part fine for lower nitro or none..and has much less volume, the other pipe is a macs marine pipe with double cone angles and is used with 15-65 percent nitro fuels..the double angle on the front cone really wakes the pipe effect up, during initial testing the boaters were shocked at the transition and better top end.


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