Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

This is for the non pylon racers here. Just curious as to how many ( besides myself :D ) hang around in the pylon forum from time to time trying to pick up on a few speed tips from the race guys.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

E-Dave:

I have been around for a lot of years and still learn good stuff with these guyes. What we don't know, the BROTHERHOOD DOES. I have had my back to the wall keeping in front of the local gang and kids as they improve and learn the tricks of the trade. With the assistance of the Brotherhood, I will build two planes for next year during this winter. With a Jett 50 in a secret build, and a Jett 90 in another secret build, next year should be a cake walk. I need all the help I can get, and have received a bunch from our gang. All kidding aside, I appreciate the help the fellas have given me in the past few months. Will take some pics of the builds and post them when the time is aproperiate.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

I also ask alot of questions out the feild when the boys are fine tuning for the next comp. When you have the #1 in the world there you know its going to help.

Tony..

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Most of the pylon guys are no different than your average guy who wants to go fast.

We started with fast planes, and a love for competition.

Many of the Extreme speed guys seem to like the fast planes, but not necessarily the competition.

I know there are times when the extreme speed crowd feels that SOME of the pylon guys talk down to the sport speed guys, but that is definately the exception, not the rule.

We can all live together :)

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

I agree with Dave. Also, don't hesitate to ask questions if needed be because we're here to help out. We would love to see you extreme speed guys do well and maybe become racers someday. ;)

Us pylon guys not only love the speed, but more so the competition. Competition is what drive us beyond just going fast and burning hole in the sky. It brings the best and worst in us in the drive to win, and the tricks and trades on finding new technology in plane design and engine performance. We're once started out just like you guys, but just push the envelop a little further and learned many new thing to improve the skill and knowledge.

Just come over to the Pylon forum and enjoy!

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Hi Dave, Sam,

I am starting pylon over here next year, just at a sports pylon level but am looking foward to it. It is a 1 design class, using standard 46 size engines, similar to your 424's.

Here is some pix of what they look like.

Tony.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Those are great looking planes, are they available as a kit or arf?

A little nicer looking than the Boxy Quickie.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Hi Dave,

The class is callled S1d. They are available as a kit for around the $50 mark from guys that are already racing them. Foam core wing & a fibreglass fuse. The guy that came up with the class had an ARF version but isnt making it anymore unfortunatley.

Hopefully will get mine in the next couple of weeks then can have them ready for next season.
Tony.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Just for the record, I check out the pylon forum on a regular basis. Dave Norman's Speed Secrets series should be required reading for any speed junkie. I have asked a few questions along the way and have always gotten good, friendly advice. Good bunch of guys there. Hopefully I'll be able to try my hand at 424 next season, but like many people nowadays, finding the time to build, prep and practice will be the real challenge.

Dave

PS Has anyone besides me noticed that there seems to be a lot of guys named Dave here ? :D

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Thanks Dave, appreciate the comments. I wrote volume #1 after getting pressure from the local newsletter editor (Nazi). After the first column the pressure got worse and they forced all my secrets out (Well maybe not all) :)

The Net has been a great place for me to learn a lot about going fast, and I try to share what I know to others. I try a lot of "weird" ideas, and hope to learn something from my multiple mistakes.

Spent the evening working on one of my "Extreme Speed" planes. I have one of the Kyosho GeeBee Z .40 sized models with an O.S. .91FX two stroke in the nose. The bigger engine actually helped the balance. We have a GeeBee fly in on Saturday, and the weather looks decent so I'm going to fix up a couple, ahem, mistakes from my last landing......

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Hey Dave, how about getting us a couple of pics from that Gee Bee fly in ?:D

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

I'll do my best, but I'm not a very dependable picture taker :)

I'm still trying to figure out who scheduled a GeeBee Flyin in November, in Minnesota....????

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

I check the Q500 forum on a "regular" basis... there is some great information to be had there.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

It costs quite a bit of money and time to race the full schedule and not many of us have our professional and personal lives arranged in such a way, to devote to pylon. As we speak, the average credit card holder in the US is $8000 in debt, so I would venture to say that many of us who are merely just into sport speed, let alone competition can barely afford just that. There are several forums here and elsewhere, where speed secrets can be found. Try DELPHI FORUMS, which is a control line speed chat room if you want the low down on engine setups. Those guys look at their airframes as neccesary evils, more or less, most of the focus is engine related. NASS is North American Speed Society, a good source of info too.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

That makes sense... since CL speed is basically just an engine on a string. But I'm not patronising here or anything... the speeds they achieve are simply awesome when you take everything onto account.
Flying pylon involves a whole lot more than just going fast... piloting comes into the picture... perhaps that is the biggest difference between CL speed and RC pylon. In RC pylon, having the fastest plane does NOT guarantee a win...

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

It would be nice to see this forum evolve into an EXTREME SPEED forum, with contributors from the 200+ MPH club. Problem is it seems that the only organized form of RC SPEED interest and activity is in EUROPE. Speed is actually frowned upon, [past a certain point] at most flying sites that I know of around here and by the AMA in general[:o] I think if any serious challengers to the piston powered RC speed record were to come from this country, it would be a collaboration between the C/L SPEED GUYS and the DYNAMIC SOARERS. It's nice to have a forum dedicated to racing planes around poles, but they are handcuffed with the task of doing just that, so their setups are compromized, it's mostly about the plane and the engine [thanks to HENRY NELSON] is a given. Almost the exact opposite of the C/L SPEED gang, whos' core group are guys doing engine research and experimentation all the time. Since C/L is slowly dieing out, this core group has "circled the wagons" and have almost a militant attitude about flying off of wires instead of radio waves, so any contributions these guys would make to EXTREME RC SPEED will be indirect, in the form of information that is free for the asking.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

It seems that we have a lot of general effort in going fast in at least three of four directions. My first question is do we have any verrification of any of us rc guys doing 200mph, other than the glider bunch? If a glider can break into 200mph, you would think it would be a easy thing to do with the power we have available, Nelson, Jett etc. I have a OPS 8 port 60 engine from a german speed nut that is claimed to give over 24k on pipe and composit prop. Sounded great Until I got my hands on it. One darn HEAVY motor here. Its also a rear carb design which complicates RC use. It was intended for the GP Little Tony, but after receiving the Little Tony, dreams of speed went away with the obvious size/weight problem. The Tony saw a Jett 90L, but alas I think it would take a 180 or better make the thing scoot. The conflict comes in trying to go fast and then turn under reasonable control, at least for me. I want to go fast for the ultimate purpose of racing, so the problems compound, must be light, strong, turn and also fast. The U control guys have their own related problems, control line drag, going around in a 60' or so circle developing a bunch of centrifical force. Their air frames need only provide unough lift to get the thing off the dolly. Their wing area for a 60 would be arround 100 sq. inches or so, we would require 500-600 to fly and turn? Don't kid yourself, a U control pilot must have good flying skills, abet a little different. You younger guys have no idea of the joy in leaving the control lines behind to truly fly like the real ones along with the additional design challanges. Until I recently retired, I enjoyed the company of Jim Holland, a Europe limey transplant who loves U control speed. He now holds several world records in U control and is a great guy who knows his engines. He does his own modifications to a point, but for world class speed, he goes to his engine guy. Who is his engine guy? I don't know because I would have to take him out to the boondocks and torture it out of him! And we were good friends? Could I do 200 mph in 6 months. Sure, would have to scale up a old hellrazor large enough to take a receiver battery and servo, up elevator only? Have uncle take me up to 20-30,000 feet, start it and launch streight down. Terminal velocity given should be 150 mph, the motor should be good for 50 mph, the plane only has to pull out of a dive and maintain the speed for a short distance, but we make 200 plus? Have we acomplished anything here, I think not. The only guys I feel cumfortable with saying they can do over 200 mph is the unlimited pylon guys with the huge motors, composit airframes and a $15,000.00 investment to do it. A few years ago, a friend wanted me to pilot his unlimited. We went out to a closed old air force bace and did some trial work. I could not enjoy myself flying some one elses high dollar plane. The size made the flying acceptable, the speed a real rush, the money, no thanks, just out of my league! This is a wealthy persons toy! The new jets also will do over 200 mph with no problem. Again you are into the $10,000.00 plus area to do it. Most of us just need to enjoy our tinkering, improve our stiff as far as possible, and never, never, never quit trying, sir! Just a old mans thoughts.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

If I'm not mistaken, the EUROPEAN SPEED CUP has a size limit of 10 ccs, which seems fair enough. Those guys are reportedly doing better than 200mph with planes that look purpose built for flat out speed. FAI pylon racers are running right up there also, with .40s. It also sounds like a very high maintenance event, anyway, there's already a forum here for that stuff, and a good one at that.

To answer the question of the original poster, the opinion poll shows that about 40% of the regulars here like to see what is hot in pylon land. The poll also suggests that there is cross lurking going on;). For the 2 years or so that I've been looking in here, there hasn't been much progress to report, other than what is going on with the EUROPEAN SPEED SCENE and the FAI PYLON RACERS with those MB .40s. Seems like the biggest news in the US flyers' speed progress has been with the DYNAMIC SOARERS and with C/L SPEED.

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Me thinks he dothe protestith too muche.[:'(]

Sorry guys but...combutpiggy popped in on an AMA thread with nothing better than the above to say... just returning the childish response nah na nah nah na nah with thumbs in ears wiggling fingers, making a face and sticking out tongue.[sm=lol.gif]

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

rmenke...

You do not need a 15,000$ investment to break 200... no way! Speed costs money, you're right in that respect. A 200+ mph plane WILL cost more than a trainer, I'll give you that, but 1,500$ should be enough to pass the 200 mark if you don't mind making things yourself.

And as for jets: give me 3500$, and I'll give you a 300+mph plane two weeks later... that includes engine, airframe and radio... the biggest cost obviously being the engine...

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

E-Dave - that's a good post topic.

I lurk on the pylon forum too. These guys don't rave on about break-in procedures appropriate to engines with cast iron pistons and they don't wax lyrical about K&B 6550s being superior to schneurle ported engines. They don't advocate cheap Chinese engines over Japanese, Taiwanese and European engines either.

In short, the pylon guys provide a pragmatic view on how to go fast and be competitive.

Our club has developed and enjoyed a Trainer Pylon Race class that has been incredibly successful and is consequently about to metamorphose into Q500. Daven, I hope you and your collegues don't mind my asking silly questions about the secrets to pylon racing success if we go down this path.

The pylon guys rule!

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

RUDEBOY:

Can I throw a few more musts into the equasion? Like it must land conventionally on wheels or skid without structural damage, and turn well enough to fly the pylon course, and maintain its speed over a 6 minute flite? If so, lets go for it. Give me the scoop of what to buy and build, I will get it done over this building winter and we will see early next year. Now do we agree, a $1500.00 limit, without any radio or servo gear, will suppyly same out of the parts bin as not part of the total cost! Have two or three sets of retracts laying around, will throw them in also. Have a friend in the Highway Patrol willing (I think) to radar the thing if he has his pants cleaned out yet. Last time he had to park the car at the end of the runway as I made low passes towrds him. Last one was 164.6 mph wing thing that came apart just over the car. Radar would not pick it up from the side for some reason. If I cant get to 200 mph, will meet you half way and you can have a shot at it. Think I can even scarf one of the new carbon fiber props only available to the" in" crowd. They are made down the road by a club member for APC. He also makes special props for NASA thay hope to use for the next Mars lander. Here is a guy that has access to all the goodies out there as a former HS operator. His jett is a thing of beauty, but is well over the $10,000 mark, yes and will do over 200 mph. His Miss Ashley, Herbrandson powered will also do over 200 mph, but also over the $10,000 mark. We are friends and work well togeather until "Race day". You gotta come some day. Imagine a cranky old USAF jett pilot and another old 101 Airborne NCO going at it tooth and tong. I am the just plane mean one, he is the tallanted one (cheeter). When not flying, we argue about who invented the first retracts etc., first, him in NY, me in Ca, in the early 70s. My original nickname was Rogerretract. Now its just Roger the Rat. Well, I digress here. Point is there is a little tallent to draw from here. Shall we do it bro? Oh, lets not do this in the open. I don't want to go out to the field and face the same thing we are buildilng! Get me at [email protected] " Rever # 119"

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

Hmm, 200 mph for $1,500 not including electronics ? Heck, even a speed rookie like me knows how to do that. For example: [link=http://www.calspeedpros.com/FAI.htm]Lyle Larson FAI Vendetta[/link] $650. [link=http://www.pspec.com/html/nelson.html]Nelson FAI engine and mount[/link] about $550.That still leaves $300 for the rest of the necessary goodies such as paint, fuel tank, etc. I'll admit it might be real close on the budget. The six minute flight times might be a problem though.

Like I said, I look around in the Pylon forums a lot.:)

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

e-dave:

Ok, sounds good. Now part of this deal is if it will not radar at 200 mph, you pay the total bill. How about the finished airftame at $1025.00 and mount $50.00=$1075. + motor $550= $1650.00 woops? Might even get to try this year?

RE: Pylon forum lurkers ?
 

e-dave:

Ok, sounds good. Now part of this deal is if it will not radar at 200 mph, you pay the total bill. How about the finished airftame at $1025.00 and mount $50.00=$1075. + motor $550= $1650.00 woops? Might even get to try this year?