RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Did your main retracts mechanism fit flush with the bottom of the wing ? Is your wing at postive incidence by a degree or so as in some of the past posts sounds like some of the guys were having problems taking off and sounds like negative incidence problems. Almost impossible to rotate that way even on hard surface.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Hi Len,

When I mentioned the increase in my Jackals' original Angle of Attack (AOA) of about 1-1.5 degrees resulting in a 8 3/8 inch prop clearance, this was with getting my EFlite retracts at their max (short/long) positions.....at least as far as I could (easily) re-engineer them.

My EFlite main gear does protrude slightly below the wing surface on my Jackal. One of the problems with installing the 60-120 size electric EFlite main gear was the wing on the Jackal is sheeted and stuffed with foam. This meant my Jackals' retract rails would require a lot of re-engineering and work to sink the EFlites' deeper into the wing.

As far as your question about the nose gear being lengthened even more than I did, it could (theoretically) be done, but it would require making up and repositioning a new nose former within the fuse. Difficult but not impossible. With some thought you could get her nose up (AOA) about an additional 3-4 degrees if you really wanted to.

One thing I was very happy about was eliminating the dual steering cables on the Jackals' nose gear. I absolutely hate dual steering cables on nose retracts !! Sure, you can get then to work 9 times out of ten, but on that tenth time the cables will almost invariably get tangled up to some extent. When they get tangled they usually always overwork the rudder servo and strip gear teeth within the servo. Also, if the steering cables get tangled while flying, it could possibly stall out the rudder servo, resulting in either a locked up rudder, or worse, a dead on-board battery pack in short order. Ask me how I know about a locked up rudder...................[:'(][:'(]

On my Jackal I used a separate and independent steering servo, and also a straight section of 4-40 threaded rod to control my steering. Nothing like using a straight rod (push/pull) for steering. No sloppy steering cables to contend with and the 4-40 rod results in a very positive steering action with the nose gear retract being either in the up or down positions.

My rudder is also electrically linked to my steering servo. Now I can have completely independent operation of the rudder and steering. Meaning through electrical adjustments, I can have tons of rudder movement if necessary and also have relatively small steering angle movements.

If you remember a while back we had this same discussion on our EFlite Deuces Wild. The D. Wild was my first plane to have a separate and independent steering servo without using steering cables. The independent steering servo along with the EFlite tri-cycle retracts have been working flawlessly now in my D. Wild for about two years. I also did the separate and independent steering servo conversion on my Hangar 9 Phoenix 7.

On another note, it looks like EFlite will be having more competition in the electric retract business. Just read the full-page ad in my latest edition of Fly RC magazine that Robart is coming out with their first set of electric retracts by Dec. 31 of this year. Isn't competition great for this hobby !:D

Joe M.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Hi Joe M;
Thanks for the reply. I have the pull pull cable steering on my Deuces and since I used the included cable tubes I have not had any problems. I do agree with you that the the solid pushrod is much more positive steering but I guess my concern was that the cables ; even though "slopier' would offer more relief to the jaring of the servo gears when TO or landing on rougher grass fields. The manual does not have any real good photos of were the wheels fit nearer the fuse and was wondering if the wheel well holes could be positioned further into the fuse ? As far as the nosewheel is concerned I think I could handle that . Thanks again
Len

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Hi Len,

Relief from jaring the steering servo gears ? This spring setup goes on the steering rod at the servo.....it works great http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK106 Forty years ago I remember making this setup from ball-point pen springs.

Wheels fit nearer the fuse ? Any fabrication or modification is possible. It all depends how much time you want to spend doing it.

Joe M.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Don't suppose you would like to share this brilliant upgrade with some photos?

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Brilliant ? Sounds like my mother talking to me !:) Funny..........I don't believe I ever said it was brilliant :):)..........just thought it was a nice conversion from air operated.


Joe M.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

When I did the electrics (retracts) on my Jackal and came down to adjusting the cables I thought...... there must be a better way.

Like I said, would love to see how you did yours. =)

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Yes I remember those spring shock thingies . Thanks for all the info , will sit on it as I get my wrokshop cleaned out I see that I have two projects to finish that have been sitting there for a very very long time. Namely a Topflite Cessna 182 - 60 almost ready for covering and a much older Modeltech Dragonlady Plus If I can get the money together for a motor I have a Bob Violet
A4 Skyhawk that needs finishing. Since Scorpion has a brushless motor specificly for the TurbAx fan rated at arround 13 lbs thrust that now puts the airplane in a workable power range even if derated with a smaller battery pack down to 10 lbs thrust would work just fine. I would want to rework the built up wing to have flaps though. Not hard to do as I had built the wing at the time to just cut the flaps off and hinge. The original K&B 45 DF motor really had to push it to get 7 or 8 lbs of thrust if I recall. Better now make that 3 projects to do . LOL !
Also since Airtronics make some real strong mini/micro digital servos makes the A4 even more doable with Eflite electric retracts.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

INSTALLING EFLITE 60-120 SIZE ELECTRIC NOSE GEAR RETRACT TO A HANGAR 9 JACKAL:

I'll be setting up my Jackal nose gear the same way as my EFlite Deuces Wild (twin) and my Hangar 9 Phoenix 7 using two rudder servos. One of the servos is used only for rudder operation. The other one (see picture) is used only for nose gear steering. Operation of both servos is electrically linked together with my radio. Having this separate steering servo offers me completely independent adjustability of nose gear steering angles.

The EFlite nose gear doesn't seem to like any more than 6-8 degrees of steering angle. Any more than that is inviting jamming up of the nose gear linkage, especially when the rudder is being operated while the nose gear is placed in the retracted position.

I personally believe that ANY model plane really doesn't need more than 6-8 degrees of steering angle anyway.

The EFlite retract operators manual only gives you some general instructions for installation and it does not go into particular steps for each different plane, so they leave it up to you to do any final engineering, fabrication of parts and final adjustments. Hey.....that's half the fun of this hobby anyway !!

Also, as shown by a picture in the EFlite electric retract manual, a plastic/nylon type clevis is used to connect your 4-40 rod at the EFlite nose retract steering linkage. In my own personal opinion this plastic clevis is too short, is not strong enough, and will not work effectively. A metal clevis should be used. I used a Great Planes 4-40 threaded metal clevis number GPMQ3794 (see picture).

I had tried using a Sullivan 4-40 metal clevis on previous EFlite nose gear, but the Sullivan was slightly shorter (see picture) and caused a binding. The longer Great Planes 4-40 metal clevis works perfect and it also allows for swings of the steering linkage with the retracts in either the up or down positions.

Before you thread your 4-40 rod into the clevis, first attach a 4-40 locknut. Thread the 4-40 rod into the clevis just far enough until it starts to protrude on the inside of the clevis. Now back the rod off until it's flush with the inside of the clevis. What I've found bad about extending the rod (even slightly) into the inside of the clevis is the threaded portion of the rod may bind up on the EFlite linkage.

At the servo end, I used a Great Planes Heavy-Duty Pushrod Connector number GPMQ3875. It's at this point you can also add a spring-loaded servo saver if necessary.

I made up a small plywood bracket that is glued to one of the formers (see picture) just behind the nose gear retract. I drilled a hole through this bracket the same outside diameter as my 4-40 rod. This small plywood bracket is used as both a main support for the 4-40 rod and to provide a direct alignment of the 4-40 rod from the servo arm to the retract linkage. Determining exactly where to place and permanently glue this small plywood bracket (see picture) is probably the most critical part of installing the EFlite nose gear.

Another difficult part of the 4-40 rod layout was attempting to get this rod mounted in a straight line directly from the servo arm connector to the EFlite steering linkage. This will take some patience and some trial-and-error fitting, but I did find a straight line in there. There are no bends in my 4-40 rod, just a nice straight push/pull action for steering.

I fly from grass, so to help with takeoffs, I also increased the size of my original nose wheel from 2.25" to 2.5".

Be sure to mechanically align the nose wheel in a straight ahead position. Do this with the radio and receiver turned on and the rudder stick in a neutral position. Get her close mechanically. Because this is a dual rudder servo setup, and you have linked the steering servo to the rudder servo, making additional small steering angle adjustments can now be made electronically. Just use your radio instead of monkeying with the actual steering linkage. As I mentioned earlier, to prevent linkage jamming when adjusting the steering angle, DON'T GO more than 6-8 degrees of left and right steering movement.

I made my nose gear a little longer (taller) by attaching the wheel/tire assembly towards the end of the wire strut. I did this to get my finished wing angle up by about 1 - 1.5 degrees. The steeper AOA (Angle of Attack) I'm sure will make for some easier takeoffs when flying from grass !

After getting the retract to work correctly, you will need to re-cut the Jackals' supplied, plywood nose gear cover. This cover will need to be re-fitted for the new EFlite retract assembly. The supplied cover will not work as it is designed to fit the Robart air retracts.

Some extra tips when installing and setting up EFlite retracts:

1. When doing your setup and operating your EFlite gear for the very FIRST time, be sure to have your finger on your radio shut-off switch button and be ready to shut off the radio IMMEDIATLY if any binding is heard or seen. I was really surprised how much torque that little EFlite geared motor has and how quickly that little 2mm steering pin on the EFlite nose gear can be bent !

2. With the retracts placed in either the retracted or lowered positions, and the rudder being in the neutral position, watch for the position of the pivot pin on the Great Planes clevis (see picture). The clevises' pivot pin should be just about centered in the slot on the EFlite sliding block.

3. Again, with the rudder being in the neutral position, the EFlite sliding block should also be just about centered on the EFlite 2mm steering pin (see picture).

4. Also, be sure to test your rudder stick to full left and right with the retracts in both the retracted and lowered positions and check for any binding. When the gear is retracted, you may find your rod travel is too long. This can be seen at the sliding block on the EFlite unit. The sliding block will be trying to force out on the EFlite 2mm steering pin. Because you have an independent steering servo, all of this binding can be eliminated by doing an electric adjustment on your steering servo.

Having the two independent rudder servos and getting rid of those nasty steering control cables were my biggest reasons for even attempting to do this conversion on three different planes.

I sure hope my procedures will help somebody out. It's a little bit of work to get rid of the steering cables, but not too difficult.

Joe M.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Hey Joe.
Great job on your mod and the way you put the info out. I too like to go with a push rod for stearing. I do love the pull-pull setup for stearing, but, I had this type of setup in the Great Plane Seawind and nine out of ten times the wire will hang up and the nose gear will lock down in a right or left turn. Not good for a 13 lbs bird. This have happen only once with the Jackal. I wish Robart would come out with a mod that we could go from pull-pull to the push rod.
Again, great info and thanks for sharing!!! All most time to put my Jackal and the rest of my fleet to bed. Old man winter is on its way. Now that we have lost daylight saving time, flying days will be short!! What to buld for the winter????

Sonny
aka
jet22b

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Hi Sonny,

Thanks for the compliment.;)

Yeah..........winter.[:'(] Flying season is just about done here, unless you can endure the cold and wind. My magic temp. is about 45 degrees F. Anything colder than that and I stay indoors. I'm not much into outdoor winter sports or outdoor winter anything for that matter.

Joe M.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Very good , Joe . many thanks . I think one of the best things is using the GP cleviis as they have longer arms (sides) than the Sullivan . I wasn't aware of that as I have always used sullivan . Man , we can always learn something. Any other little tidbits on the jackel ?

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Yeah........the longer G.P. clevis has worked out great on my all three of my planes with the 4-40 push rod conversion. Just remember not to thread the 4-40 rod too far into the clevis. Thread it in just enough until it starts to protrude into the inside of the clevis (no threads exposed), then tighten down the 4-40 locknut. With no 4-40 rod threads exposed on the inside of the clevis, it allows that little aluminum block on the EFlite nose gear to rotate without jamming up.

The clevis problems was one of the pains I had when trying to do this setup on my Deuces Wild. That's when I started to look through my spare parts and found the longer G.P. clevis.

Actually, I need a little help my Jackal. Mine is just about done except for the CG adjustment and doing a final weighing (hope she's not too fat). The CG spec. is 6 3/8"-6 5/8". I'll probably start off a little tail-heavy at 6 1/2".

I need to know two things:

1. What are you fellahs setting your CG at ? I don't mind going a little tail heavy.

2. The CG is supposedly checked from the leading edge of the wing, but, the picture for checking the CG in my manual is a little fuzzy. Did you fellahs remove those two fiberglass fairings and then check the CG from the leading edge of the wing AT the fuselage, or leave the fairings on and check the CG FROM THE OUTER EDGES of the fairings ? There is about a 1/2" differance between the two.

Thanks in advance,
Joe M.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Hey Joe;
I set my CG from the outer edge of the fairing. Somewhere in this thread someone post that was the right way to set your Jackal CG. My Jackal is a tad nose heavy, but, all my planes are a tad nose heavy!!:D My first Jackal was setup this way and she flew like a dream. I just look at my manual and the fairing was in place. I hope you get it done before old man winter set in, because you will love the way this bird fly. I hope this help. Did get one flight on my Jackal today before the sun went down and it was a blast!!!!:D:D

Sonny
aka
jet22b

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Thanks for the info Sonny !:D

Yeah.............old man winter.[:'(] About an hour ago we had our first snow flurrie of the season. That white garbage didn't stick, but it's a reminder of what's coming.[:'(]

It's supposed to be cold and windy tommorow. [:'(] I don't have any snow skis on my Jackal,[X(] so the maiden may have to wait 'til spring.

Joe M.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Good Morning Gentlemen,

I have done now a couple of flights with the Jackal and I love that plane..great combo with the jett 0.56 and APC 9x8 ~ 18 K RPM...what I have noticed is that in turns the Jackal is climbing and gaining unwanted altitude. Are you guys having the same problems..what could be the roote cause here... wrong CG ?... should I mix some Rudder to the aileron ?....or should I try aileron differential ? you see I am a little lost here[:o] I also believe the elevator is not as responsive as at my other planes

greetings Gordon

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Gordon, I know alot of us were tail heavy, with the Evolution small block 60, I had to install my Rx battery, and extra weight..even then, had to program up elevator trim. But after all that, she turns fine. I would check your CG then look at unwanted movement in the flying surfaces, wing flex, and all trims..ect.
check your flap neutral also.http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ular_smile.gif
Jack

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Gordon,

Good Morning. From your description of your "elevator not being as responsive as your other airplanes" I suspect the CG is correct. More likely the unwanted climbs are coming from adverse yaw, and aileron differential will correct that. The test for correct set up is to fly straight away from your self and roll to the right. If the nose rises as you start the roll you should increase the differential amount (more up aileron on the right, less down on the left). Try this test also with a roll to the left. It should have similar results but the magnitude may be greater in one direction than the other. Mixing a small amount of rudder (I find about 4%) in the direction of the roll will also help.

I would suggest you leave the elevator and CG alone for the moment. It sounds like they are both in a safe place. As long as you can cause the wing to stall at full back stick (Test this at altitude) you have more than enough elevator to fly the airplane the way it is intended.

Have fun and enjoy your airplane!

Pete

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Pete,

That seems very logical what you are saying...I googled and found that http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...cs/q0045.shtml
Will do the setup on my Futaba and report back the coming out..

rgds
Gordon

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Good Morning,

Just a quick update, had two flights yesterday, two make it short..the second flight went just perfect...Final setup is 45% differential on aileron and a 25 % rudder mix...no up or down in turns...rolls going just straight...I DO LOVE MY JACKAL :D....will try next WE a 9x9 APC...

cheers
Gordon

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Wow I had my first problem my hatch departed from flight on a high speeeeed dive pull out it does not like to fly with out it so dont try that !It gets worse I went to put down the gear and I hit the kill switch by accident. I got the gear down and realized Im not gona make the runway,we fly off a sod farm that has drainage ditches on both sides.I got the gear back up and tried to hit any of the fields and you guessed it I got the ditch!I got lucky all that broke was the motor mounts.The front pin broke flush with the hatch.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Funny about the motor mount being the only damage. I recently had a minor crash due to one of the main gear ripping out on a not-very-hand landing, and both arms of the motor mount broke clean through. It was mostly a bounce and then nose-over at landing speed once the gear ripped out. Not a hard landing and not a hard crash, but it broke the gear block and the mount. The Jackal motor mount must be pretty weak because this hasn't happened to me during any other relatively minor crash on my other planes. Between the weak landing blocks and the fragile motor mount I am starting to wonder about quality. The plane flies great, however.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

Took the Jackal out yesterday. Engine was not running well. Jett 56. 1st flight we open the needle 1 1/2 turn which was strange as the engine was running perfectly a few weeks back. Took her up and flew great went to land nose gear was stuck in the in the up. So belly landed on the grass only a wing tip scrape. Checked on the table and the nose gear was working fine. Took her up again and on landing we thought the nose gear was down. No such luck. We realized that it was getting stuck in flight but not on the table. Needs some sanding. Landed on the hardtop with mains down and on the prop. No damage again other than a busted prop. Felt alot of fuel all around the fuse. Took the stock tank out and it had split by the rubber stopper. That explains the engine's poor performance. So this plane is built strong but the hardware is crapp. The tank and engine mounts are very weak and of poor construction.

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

call dub jett and order a metal motor mount and one of the jett tanks, no more flaky engine runs or leaks

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
 

richardgerdi,
You are not alone!! On #1 the same thing happen to me and I was putting the stopper in!! It split right at the bottom seam of the neck. Lucky I had spare tanks from other arf's in the parts bend and found one that fit. On your nose gear, you may want to open the wheel cut a little more. On both of my Jackal's I had to do that. Sometime the gear would not retract straight into the wheel and on the way back down will hang up on the door cutout. Another thing you may checkout is the pull-pull wire. Sometime it go up in away that it will get hook by the gear. I hope this info help and yes the hardware suck in this ARF.
Merry Xmas all!!!

Sonny
aka
jet22b