bradpaul

You suspect that your neighbor is dealing drugs from the home.

1.) You call the cops on him.

2.) You tell all the neighbors that the guy is a drug dealer.

#1 is completely what you as a citizen should do.
#2 you better hope that what you suspect is true or the neighbor is going to get everything you own.

That is the difference that some of the posters cannot seem to comprehend.

Brad

KidEpoxy

I keep thinking about
how Cisco first went to the AMA to try to deal with it internally,
THEN went to outside LE when dealing internally didnt work out

see, what he should have done was.... uh.... oh yeah, That.

I mean, wasnt he given advice to take it to the IRS?

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I don't think DB was the first to go and attempt to get things changed. We know fliers1 went to them. I would think there have been several that have contacted the AMA. Many just comment without any knowledge of what was done prior. I stand on the fence mostly because I am not well enough informed of all the issues.

I enjoy the discussion and learning. If I find something I think is amiss with the AMA or any org, I would contact them first, then take whatever action needed after that. I believe in going to the source first.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

The only thing that's going to "transpire" between him and the IRS is that he's going to get (or has gotten) a form letter thanking him for his letter about the AMA. The Service is not allowed to share a taxpayer's information with outsiders. There is no exception for outsiders who have written to the Service claiming that somebody is cheating.

Unless the Service actually audits the AMA and concludes that they aren't entitled to the tax status they've been claiming, none of us will ever hear anything more about this from anybody with actual knowledge. Cisco seems to be implying that he and the Service are somehow working together to straighten out the AMA ("I am in communication with the IRS," "The only ones who know what's going on [are] me and the IRS.") They aren't. If somebody at the Service were to share information about this case with him, I suppose he'd feel obliged to turn that person in for violating taxpayer-privacy laws, under his sincere but mistaken belief that anyone who observes a law being broken is legally obliged to rat out the offender. (If that were true, I'd have to spend several hours a day reporting on people who don't come to a complete stop at stop signs.)

Nitro777

True, but the truth will eventually reveal itself no matter how much people argue about it and no matter what side of the argument they are on. Even if they are as slivery as a snake the truth will be revelaed......always has....always will.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

This thread is like a train wreck. No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to ignore it.

Regarding their tax status, the 2009 Financial Statement (independently audited) contains the following statement (page 6):

In otherwords, nothing in the Academy's financial statement, tax returns, or accounting methods is likely, in the professional opinion of the auditors, to endanger the Academys tax exempt status.

Brad

tinner1

The fact that this statement was made in a post by a teacher(?) terrifies me!!! The thought of that individual "teaching"(?) our youth scares me. NO ONE and I repeat NO ONE is by law required to report a crime. For the teachers in the crowd please read that again.... In fact you don't have to press charges if a crime was committed against you! Some crimes the police don't need you to press charges but no where is it "the law" that you have to report law breakers, and stating that shows a lack of knowledge of the law, and probably the status of the AMA tax reporting. I'm sure too that as another poster stated, the IRS person "leaking" information about private tax information to db will be reported and lose their jobs. Lets just all go after all those law breakers that are making it bad for the rest of us law abiding citizens.

My guess is this same teacher is the guy driving in the passing lane at 55 MPH during rush hour, holding up all others while saying it is his civic duty to go 55 MPH, and MAKE others do it to!!! After all someone has to control all those law breakers.....

dbcisco

Any teacher that does not report crimes occuring on school property is in violation of PA school code (IE: State Law) and risks being barred from teaching in the state.
Do some research before attatcking me.

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

While I agree with your summation of the first scenario, I disagree with the result of your second, because your drug-dealing neighbor would not sue you for telling the other neighbors ... he'd have you killed.

bradpaul

Thanks for proving why #2 is a lose lose situation.........

If the neighbor IS a drug dealer as you say beware for your life

If the neighbor IS NOT a drug dealer then you get sued for per se defamation and still lose

I guess the doctrine is: turn in / don't tell.

Brad

dbcisco

So cops, witnesses and the DA get sued by everyone who is found innocent?
Guess again.
I am not even bothering answering any more nonsense.

phlpsfrnk

Brad,
Have to agree with you about the train wreck. I can’t ignore it either, but you are certainly not going to slow it down any with facts. Parking the OP’s Kia & Camero on those tracks stand a better chance. I think I’ll just set back and watch our favorite tax lawyer dbcisco Esq self-destruct.

Regards
Frank

phlpsfrnk

If you wish to stop the nonsense, close the thread.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Good advice. Some of us, including me, have been ignoring the fundamental rule of internet communication: Don't feed the trolls. I resolve to do better in the future. It's hard. Kind of like when you've got a tooth that hurts when you press on it.

KidEpoxy

BP
makes a pretty convincing argument
that he has nothing to fear from AMA's lawyers if he is indeed correct in his accusations

oh, if your accountants DONT say that in their opinion they are correct, Fire them
Ever see an accounting firm make the statement
"It is our belief that our analysis regarding your taxes might not be accurate"[X(]???



Mr P
As an alternative
to having the discussions of others that you dont want to take part in censored,
you could always... you know... just not take part in those discussions.

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

You forgot one little thing. Mr. DBcisco is self avowed NPO and accounting expert. This trumps any opinion by a respected and established CPA firm. Silly you.

bradpaul

The truth is a valid defense against defamation. The problem is how much is it going to cost in lawyers fees. If you do not have deep pockets it is very hard to find a lawyer to risk his fees unless the case is a slam dunk. Even then, these cases can drag on for years so you will probably have to put some large money up front.

Brad

804

My Feedback: (1)

Gee, I never thought of that.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
I find this whole zero-tolerance BS so prevalent in our society disgusting.
A kid smoking a cig. on school property, a criminal.
A kid with a Swiss Army Knife on school property, a criminal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they know the rules, blah, blah, blah.

The whole concept is still despicable.
So is snitching.

"You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide".
Some of the most evil words ever uttered.[:'(]

tinner1

.

Don't tell me to keep MY facts straight when you are jumping all over the place with your discussion. If you read your own posts this thread is about lawyers attacking you and you reporting the AMA to the IRS as a result! I don't need to get MY facts straight, YOU need to quit changing the points to suit your agenda.....You made NO clear distinction between reporting a student and turning in the AMA to the IRS. If you'd report one because it was your "civic duty" you'd report both, or be the hypocrite you accuse others of being. I truly hope the letter IS REAL and you are dragged through the coals. THAT will be the best lesson you can give your students. And if I had to bet a penny, I'd bet a Dollar that you are wrong in this "witch hunt" and the AMA did NOTHING WRONG and NOTHING will become of you doing your "civic duty".

tinner1

dbcisco,

I just finished looking up some of your posts on other threads, you know the old saying "know your enemy", and I see something that makes you telling others: "get their facts straight" look really hypocritical.....On the thread "Why Join the AMA Pro's and Con's" YOU posted this in response to joebahl:
NOTE RED above, those are YOUR words! You said there the AMA didn't lie on their tax return, but on this thread you are sure they did? How often do you change your point of view? YOU are so quick to correct others for getting their "facts" wrong when you can't even keep your opinions straight!

dbcisco

When did I ever say they lied on their tax returns?

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

How about from August 21-25 when you published statements on RC Universe suggesting that the AMA "is defrauding the IRS", "providing false information", "cheating on mailing costs", etc.

Reference page 5, six posts down.

Brad

dbcisco

Where did I say they lied on their tax returns?
Answer the question at hand.

bobfox

My Feedback: (1)

Here's an interesting question: The AMA (That's us!) has (As of 12/31/08- I could not find the 09 statements) $5.5 M in cash, $3.0 M in Investments (Stocks and Bonds) and $6.6M in Plant Property and Equipment. We also have liabilities but the only major EXTERNAL liability is $2.8 M in Revenue bonds. The remainder of the liabilities are accounting terms saying that we owe ourselves- required by generally accepted accounting principles but not really meaningful in a real-world understanding of the situation )My calculations indicate that the net worth of the organization is about $12.8M.

Now that's roughly equivalent of an individual saying they make $30,000 a year, but they have a $1.1M house, a summer cabin in the mountains, two Porsches, A BMW, a large boat and a garage full of model aircraft and little debt. (Now you know what my dream life is!)

The money (net worth) has to come from somewhere. Perhaps the AMA got some or most of it from donations, or squirrled it away during the good years and about half of it is invested in the national flying site, which would be difficult to liquidate. But the fact is that money came from and continues to come from members and is our investment in the AMA. In that sense, the AMA is NOT a "not for profit" organization but the IRS NPO test is totally different test.

AMA currently has enough cash and investments to pay its cash expenses for about a year (Assuming no collections of dues or other revenues during that time), which is better than many individuals and organizations. In fact, my personal opinion is that the AMA leadership is a bit of crying wolf with the financials, making matters appear worse than they really are. However, revenues are on a decline and that decline is probably permanent- Many "traditional" hobbies ( For example Amateur radio, RC Flying, Quilting, Square Dancing) are slowly dying off and have lesser (Or no) appeal to the youngsters of today.

Perhaps the AMA strategy of trying to grow membership is futile. Certainly, it's worth a try but we also have to face the possibility that it may not be possible to grow significantly. (Think large tobacco companies!). If it's not possible, what's our alternative?

Just my thoughts.

tinner1

I quote YOU in your post #9
See the red above quoting phrases you (dbcisco) admit to using, that started your legal troubles. Call me stupid dbcisco, but doesn't you turning the AMA into the IRS also equate to you saying they lied on their tax returns? If the AMA didn't lie on the returns there would be nothing for you to report, or the IRS to find wrong, and that is precisely what you are saying the AMA is doing, ie lying to the IRS forms.

How about YOU read some of your own posts to refresh YOUR memory of what you post?!!!!!!!!!

After being in this hobby for only 3 years I don't think you know enough about the AMA, and what it has done for modeling in ALL forms NOT just RC, to spearhead such a crusade against it. You haven't seen the long term effect of all the factors that affect the total membership numbers. You haven't lived through the economic changes that have taken place, the changes in the kits, the radios, and all the other factors that affect the efforts that are needed to be successful in this hobby. I don't know what you have against the AMA that makes you feel so strongly that you have to "tame the mad beast", but I truly hope you are NOT successful. I have enjoyed and supported the services of the AMA and it's staff for almost 50 years, and although I don't think they are perfect, you are why I think they serve a "thankless membership". Personally, IMHO I don't think you have an attitude that would listen to the truth if they at the AMA took the time to explain it to you. You argue with EVERYONE who proves you wrong. You are too hung up on being right to see what is really right.

You won't hear from me anymore on this thread because I feel one of two things is going on here....Either you are getting some kind of sick pleasure out of arguing with AMA supporters, or you just don't get it. Either way, this thread and your legal problems brought on yourself by yourself, and your views, are a waste of every ones time. Have a nice day......