Kostas1

Guys,

what's the best method of installing flying wires to support the rear fuse ?

mfuess

So you'll know, most all the early version Sportsters had weak horizontal stabs. I had one fold up on me around 1979. GP replaced it and the new one got wires. Problem solved. Apparently, the ARF's may have an issue...

Put 4-40 ridged guy-wires on and you're fixed forever. I had to do this to my RV-4 also.

Kostas1

But how to secure the 4-40 rod to the fuselage ?

redbiscuits

My Feedback: (6)

Use these to secure the rods.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXD923&P=K
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXD922&P=K
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXD838&P=K
This is what I used to make flying wires on my Rebel and they work great, very strong.
Red.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Kostas,

Try this, it's a nice setup with most everything you'll need:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...+wires+bracing

Hope this link works.

~ Jim ~

Kostas1

Niceee

redbiscuits

My Feedback: (6)

That Sullivan kit is kinda pricey though don't you think? I mean for what you get, one could come up with something just as good or better for more than half price IMO.
Red.

Joystick TX

The rods were not carbon fiber, they were actually fiberglass. Glue was epoxy, which reminds me, I did not clean the parts before it was applied, another thing to do next time. I need to make a checklist. The rod was threaded, the rods stayed in the ends, none of the treads stripped. I had heavy duty servo arms, but not metal (some of the metal arms have plastic inserts). The right hand servo did sustain one heck of a reward pull, the servo arm was pulled straight back and was locked as tight as it could get.

I am pretty sure that the start of the problem was the failure of the stab. If the servo linkage failed first, the right hand servo would have been disconnected from the elevator and it would not have sustained any damage and the servo arm would not have been pulled straight to the rear.

It is "possible" that the right hand servo had a failure that caused it to go to the extreme rear position which would have broken the stab and caused the crash, but that is about as likely as winning the lottery every day in a row for a year.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

It's a tad pricey, but take a good look at the tabs. [sm=omg_smile.gif]They're made to hold the wires and not wear. It's purpose-built for attaching wires to the plane. For somebody doing it the first time it diagrams the whole setup, and the wires are really nice quality.

I've used hard linkage wires and soft wires at different times. Each of us has to decide what works for them. These days I just keep a Sullivan pack in my parts drawer.

I think if you concentrated on saving money, you could find similar parts and save a few bucks, though personally I'm allergic to doing too much shopping, and it seems like there would be a lot of details putting all this together separately. Too much other stuff to do all the time.

But now I know what I'll be doing today. I think I'll add a set to my GSS. I'll videotape it for another "Building with Jim" segment...[8D]

~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]

Joystick TX

Looks great, but I will go with CF rods both top and bottom. I cut the rods to length and put electrical wire spade lugs on the ends to put the bolts through. I used them on my way-overpowered Funtanna and they held the tail together through a lot of abuse.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Sorry, Joystick,

I was going by what I could see in the photo, and it looked to me like the end had come out, although it wasn't close-up enough to see to much. If it didn't come out, then nothing I said matters anyway.

~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Red, I go your way using through bolted landing gear straps, but use HD nylon clevises without any lock, relying on just the snap together function. They do wear over time so you have to check them occasionally, but the advantages are no possible metal on metal RF issues, and if you happen to snag a wire on something moving the plane around they'll let go. The wire can be polished to a pretty shiny finish with steel wool or similar, simulating the chrome or stainless used on full scale as well. FWIW

redbiscuits

My Feedback: (6)

Now, where is your modeling spirit? If I had that attitude I'd never get off the couch! Much less glue a whole box of sticks together.
Red.

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

I agree with Jim. I have had planes with cheap flying wires and it is like they never stop stretching. Every time you go flying you have to re-adjust the wires. I have since replaced all of the wires on that plane with good quality wires and no more problems. The wires are nice as they have lower drag and weigh much less that push rods. If you go with that use 2-56 push rods not 4-40 as you will need to add a lot more weight to the nose with the 4-40 rods. Oh and don't use plastic clevis as they won't last. Use metal and there is no problem with interference if they are snug.

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

BTW there are some pics of the flying wire set up on my Python if you want to lood at them. If you want close ups let me know and I can take some for you....

Joystick TX

If anyone installs wires on the tail, I would recommend putting them on the top and bottom of the stab. If they are only installed on the top, the stab can still fold upward. I am not sure how effective the wires on the bottom of the stab would be due to the shallow angle between the bottom of the fuselage and the stab. That is why I plan to use CF rods, they will provide compression as well as tension on the stab.

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

Yup if someone only puts them on top they may as well not be there at all....

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

***GASP***

You mean, I'm actually allowed to leave this chair? But how will the novels get written?

~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Yes, that 120 SS where the whole tail blew off had them...on the top only, which I thought was odd. Then afterward, I realized it was more than odd, it was STUPID. Stupid of me too, to not finish the set before taking her up.

~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]

Charlie P.

I installed a set of tail wires as used on my Great Planes Ultimate 1.60 ARF. They are part no GPMA2844 (Tower No LXLGP3). It takes two 3/16" holes in the vert stab and two 3/16" holes in each horiz. stab. I then sleeved the v.stab holes with brass tube and held the cable ends with 2-56 bolts and Ny-Loc nuts. The cable ends are already swaged for loops.

The lower fuselage Icemented a ply reinforcement block spanning the stringers at the bulkhead with a basswood block and screwed a flat-head screw up into it.

The best thing about this system is that it is easy to adjust tension. The wires are retained by set-screws &ball bearings so you just snug them up and set the screw with Loctite.

Iset them so they meet the vert stab at 45° and looked at some old biplane images to see where the lowers should go. There was also a drawing for Kinner Sportster I used for ideas

Kostas1

Awesome! Great setup!

Joystick TX

I wish I had that setup on Oct 6.

Charlie P.

Unfortunately, there is no promise it will do me any good. But at least Ican say I tried. I want back through this thread from the beginning before Iordered my GSS.

There is a great 'ol German saying: "Alle Kunst ist umsunst Wenn ein Engel auf das Zündloch brunzt" (which translates roughly to: "all skill is in vain if an angel pisses down the touch-hole of your musket").

Unfortunately, it seems my angel drinks a lot of coffee.

Kostas1

uhhhh ooohhhh [][]

Capt Cash

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry to here of your loss and thanks again for posting your findings. Looks like youenjoyed a lot of fun flying hours with the plane.It's a bummer to never know exactly what causes a crash but it looks like you've got it narrowed down fairly well. Based on what has been discussed, I'mwith you,it was either an initialfailure of the horizontal stabOR elevator flutter that then caused the sudden failure of the stab.Unfortunately a host of other things could have caused the elevatorflutter if that was what happened first. I have no experience in this area but as someone already posted, it seems entirely plausible that flutter could lead to the eventual and suddenfailure of the horizontal stab. It's possible alsothat over time and the many flightsthe plane has had thatthe stab developed unseen internal stress fractures that eventuallygave way. Maybe contact Great Planes and see what they have to say?

Fortunately I'm still fairly new to the hobby and haven't had to walk out on the field and pick up the pieces yet but I know the dayiscoming. Just wish I knew when.And asas long as I don't dumb thumb it in I'm sureI'll beleft guessing. As many folks already know in aviation, no single problem brings a plane down. It's almost always a chain of events. And that chain can be started with the simplest ofproblems thatwill be leaving you scratching your head in disbelief that it caused the eventual crash. I fly airplanes for a living and canconfidently say this holds true for anysize aircraftwhether it bea paper airplane that you didn't balance correctly with a paper clip, or the space shuttle that got the wrong 50 cent O-rings installedon the rocket boosters (I know, I'm exaggerating a little here).

I've neverhad structural issues yet in the tail areasbut I'mstill a big believer in the bracing wires. They seem likeprettly cheap insuranceespecially if youdo really hard style flying with a plane that may notbe designed to handle it. Ihave an 81"SuperCub thatwas my first large scale. What's made the plane so fun is thatevery now and thenIdon't fly it like it was meant to be flown. I like to do high speed snap rolls andextremely tight loopswith the control rates set pretty much at the max deflection I can get out of them. Iknow this is not what a cub is supposed to do but it's fun and snaps wicked fast. There's no way I would have even attemptedsuch maneuversthough without the flying wires on first. Additionally,even under somewhat normal flying Ithink theempennageareasonmost aircraftare still a veryhigh stress point.For example in straight and level flight at one G,as airspeed increases the lift created by the wing naturally increases but thiscreatesan evengreater required tail down force to hold the aircraft straight and level.Couple some high G maneuvers in with this andthere is a trememdous load now onthetail.

Anyway, Hoping to maiden my GSS with the DLE-30in a week or two. I'll most certainly be gentle with it.Thanks again to all that have posted their experiences in this thread, it has been a tremendous help.