Palmer 132" AC-130 Build
11-23-2010, 09:48 AM
#1751
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RE: Palmer 132
I haven't been able to work on mine - other things have priority for now[:'(]
It's safely stored on shelves and I hope to be able to get back on it this next summer.
Roger
It's safely stored on shelves and I hope to be able to get back on it this next summer.
Roger
11-23-2010, 09:57 AM
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RE: Palmer 132
I'm taking break from my 130 also, it will be a while before i get back to it, found more issue with it.
It's stored inside the house so it's away from any kind of danger except for my cat!....No word yet from High land propellers, maybe i'll email them when things settle a bit in the family.
Sam
It's stored inside the house so it's away from any kind of danger except for my cat!....No word yet from High land propellers, maybe i'll email them when things settle a bit in the family.
Sam
11-26-2010, 11:54 AM
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RE: Palmer 132
Hello
It is a big project and the transport in and out of house and van is a job on its own, I am lucky I have my wife as a "crewchief" and helper
without a helper it would be almost impossible to get the plane to the airfield, but once there you are rewarded with an extreme well flying machine that looks and sounds beautiful.
Hope some of you guys pick up and finish your planes it is worth all the hard work, and you forget it when you do a low pass on 1/3 throttle, then life is perfect
Mine is in the hangar for the winter here, but it is ready to go again when spring comes back in April.
Here are a couple more of photos taken this summer.
It is a big project and the transport in and out of house and van is a job on its own, I am lucky I have my wife as a "crewchief" and helper
without a helper it would be almost impossible to get the plane to the airfield, but once there you are rewarded with an extreme well flying machine that looks and sounds beautiful.Hope some of you guys pick up and finish your planes it is worth all the hard work, and you forget it when you do a low pass on 1/3 throttle, then life is perfect
Mine is in the hangar for the winter here, but it is ready to go again when spring comes back in April.
Here are a couple more of photos taken this summer.
11-26-2010, 07:59 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
Olson;
I'm pleased that your model flies well and you seem to enjoy it very much. I have been working on mine for a long time now and had to remove the old engines (RCV 91-CD's) because they were not very reliable on idle and generated too much heat for an enclosed installation such as ours. I am re-engining mine with Saito FG20 gas engines. They idle like no other engiine I have every had and top end is very good with lots of power. I'm almost finished now and hope to fly it sometime this Winter or Spring. Here in Florida we can fly all year round.
Anyway for those of you who are building this airplane here is some news that may help you. I spoke to someone who has built six C-130 of various sizes. I asked him about the wing and tail incidence and where he set them. I told him that the Palmer Plans called for 6 degrees positive incidence in the wing and a minus 2 degrees in the stab. He told me that this is fine as long as you are using a Symetrical Airfoil mounted UP-SIDE DOWN as on the full size aircraft!! In other words the stab is a LIFTING stab. I didn't know this obviously but it makes sense not that I think about it. I'm pretty sure that Palmer missed this small detail when he designed this thing as everyone who has had success without a lot of down elevator trim has moved their stabilizer to a O degree incidence.
Happy flying!!
Frank
I'm pleased that your model flies well and you seem to enjoy it very much. I have been working on mine for a long time now and had to remove the old engines (RCV 91-CD's) because they were not very reliable on idle and generated too much heat for an enclosed installation such as ours. I am re-engining mine with Saito FG20 gas engines. They idle like no other engiine I have every had and top end is very good with lots of power. I'm almost finished now and hope to fly it sometime this Winter or Spring. Here in Florida we can fly all year round.
Anyway for those of you who are building this airplane here is some news that may help you. I spoke to someone who has built six C-130 of various sizes. I asked him about the wing and tail incidence and where he set them. I told him that the Palmer Plans called for 6 degrees positive incidence in the wing and a minus 2 degrees in the stab. He told me that this is fine as long as you are using a Symetrical Airfoil mounted UP-SIDE DOWN as on the full size aircraft!! In other words the stab is a LIFTING stab. I didn't know this obviously but it makes sense not that I think about it. I'm pretty sure that Palmer missed this small detail when he designed this thing as everyone who has had success without a lot of down elevator trim has moved their stabilizer to a O degree incidence.
Happy flying!!
Frank
11-27-2010, 07:27 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
ORIGINAL: oltimer
Sorry about the Symetrical error; it should have read Semi-Symetrical Airfoil and 5 degrees positive incidence in the wing.
Frank
Sorry about the Symetrical error; it should have read Semi-Symetrical Airfoil and 5 degrees positive incidence in the wing.
Frank
So Frank, does this means to leave stab at -2 degrees but change it's airfoil from symmetrical to Semi-symmetrical and model will fly good as stab will become lifting tailplane....or do you still suggest to mount stab as 0 degrees with newer Semi-symmetrical airfoil.
Whenever i get back to my model, this will be the area i will be re-starting on it. I have to admit, i had lost 50% of interest in my C130 due to it's on going newer issues coming out one after another back when i was working on it. Not so long ago i did dry assembled whole model again and she looked great!.
2nd question is, What to do about nose wheel strut length, on mine it seems it's a lot longer then it should be as my model sits on slightly high AOA Vs it should be sitting level on the ground.....
Sam
11-27-2010, 09:52 PM
#1757
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RE: Palmer 132
I think we have to be careful here with the terminology. In the case of the herc, it has an inverted airfoil on the horizontal stab that helps to deal with the extremes in loads it has to carry. The inverted airfoil is a "lifting" airfoil but downward lifting.
Check out this short thread. It pretty well explains what is being said here.
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8761851/printable.htm[/link]
Check out this short thread. It pretty well explains what is being said here.
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8761851/printable.htm[/link]
11-27-2010, 11:04 PM
#1758
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RE: Palmer 132
Aircraft incidences are based on a datum line that runs through essentially the center of the fuse. It can be be based on the wing incidence but that tends to throw other definitions of incidences off. For simplicity, incidences are like angles of attack (AOA). a positive incidence is where the leading edge (or front) of an object is higher than the trailing edge (or rear).
An aircraft could have a positive wing incidence of say 2degrees, a stab incidence of 0 degrees and the engine could have a -3 degrees of incidence (or down thrust). If the datum of this same aircraft were based on the wing set at 0 degrees incidence, then the stab would be -2 and the engine would be -5. No difference but, if you use an incidence meter to set the wing to zero, just remember that the other numbers change as well. I get frustrated at times with ARF's because the instructions don't provide any incidences and therefore I have no way to check that the stab or engine thrust is correct. I have seen stab incidences vary by as much as 4 degrees on identical ARF's. One flew very well and the other was nearly uncontrollable.
A full scale Herc stab has an inverted semi-symmetrical airfoil. Therefore it is lifting DOWN. Since the model is lifting loads no where near what the full scale does, and it generally flies at speeds much higher than scale, the inverted airfoil would need to be set at a greater positive incidence (or down elevator) to overcome the downward lift. Otherwise the model would want to loop all the time.
A flat stab or fully symmetrical one on a model is designed at an incidence that produces the most efficient AOA of the wing. A Clark-Y flat bottom wing like a Cub may have a flat stab that might have +2 to +4 degrees incidence (down elevator) because that airfoil can produce lift even at a negative incidence (around -2 degrees). A fully symmetrical winged aircraft may have a stab with a negative incidence (up elevator) because the wing needs a positive AOA to generate lift.
I hope I haven't confused the issue with facts, but aircraft designers are usually correct with their incidences, or they find out they were wrong when the first prototype is flown.
DC
An aircraft could have a positive wing incidence of say 2degrees, a stab incidence of 0 degrees and the engine could have a -3 degrees of incidence (or down thrust). If the datum of this same aircraft were based on the wing set at 0 degrees incidence, then the stab would be -2 and the engine would be -5. No difference but, if you use an incidence meter to set the wing to zero, just remember that the other numbers change as well. I get frustrated at times with ARF's because the instructions don't provide any incidences and therefore I have no way to check that the stab or engine thrust is correct. I have seen stab incidences vary by as much as 4 degrees on identical ARF's. One flew very well and the other was nearly uncontrollable.
A full scale Herc stab has an inverted semi-symmetrical airfoil. Therefore it is lifting DOWN. Since the model is lifting loads no where near what the full scale does, and it generally flies at speeds much higher than scale, the inverted airfoil would need to be set at a greater positive incidence (or down elevator) to overcome the downward lift. Otherwise the model would want to loop all the time.
A flat stab or fully symmetrical one on a model is designed at an incidence that produces the most efficient AOA of the wing. A Clark-Y flat bottom wing like a Cub may have a flat stab that might have +2 to +4 degrees incidence (down elevator) because that airfoil can produce lift even at a negative incidence (around -2 degrees). A fully symmetrical winged aircraft may have a stab with a negative incidence (up elevator) because the wing needs a positive AOA to generate lift.
I hope I haven't confused the issue with facts, but aircraft designers are usually correct with their incidences, or they find out they were wrong when the first prototype is flown.
DC
11-28-2010, 10:00 AM
#1759
RE: Palmer 132
A true to scale herc has an inverted semi-symmetrical airfoil. Therefore it is lifting DOWN
I would like to see the airfoil, you speak of, and read about the aerodynamics of such an airfoil?
I'm guessing you may be speaking of photos of aircraft with the wing removed? Because of the construction of the fuselage attachment location, it appears as though the airfoil is not what it is.
Could this be the case?
11-28-2010, 07:31 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
Hi everyone;
I enjoy times like this because all of the theorists come out of the woodwork to the rescue with theory's which I generally tend to agree with.
Here's the practical side: Palmer plans have the following incidence values; wing, plus 5 degrees, stab (which is symetrical by the way) minus 2 degrees, and the engines are at 0 degrees incidence. Models that have been flown locally by Mike Popescu of Miromar Lakes have required at least 3/4 of an inch of DOWN elevator to make the plane fly straight and level when built per plan . Unfortunately on Mike's first model the second flight was not good as he encountered a barbed wire fence on landing. He built another one just like the first but changed the stab incidence to 0 degrees and it flies well WITHOUT DOWN elevator! This is the only change that he made from the plans.
Accordingly, according to theory and ledger domain if he had had a Semi-Symetrical airfoil on his stab he wouldn't have needed the down elevator in the first model. Some models do require certain systems JUST LIKE THE BIG ONES! Unless you have built one of these models then I suggest that you do before you start stating facts that you have no idea whether or not they apply to this particular model.
I enjoy times like this because all of the theorists come out of the woodwork to the rescue with theory's which I generally tend to agree with.
Here's the practical side: Palmer plans have the following incidence values; wing, plus 5 degrees, stab (which is symetrical by the way) minus 2 degrees, and the engines are at 0 degrees incidence. Models that have been flown locally by Mike Popescu of Miromar Lakes have required at least 3/4 of an inch of DOWN elevator to make the plane fly straight and level when built per plan . Unfortunately on Mike's first model the second flight was not good as he encountered a barbed wire fence on landing. He built another one just like the first but changed the stab incidence to 0 degrees and it flies well WITHOUT DOWN elevator! This is the only change that he made from the plans.
Accordingly, according to theory and ledger domain if he had had a Semi-Symetrical airfoil on his stab he wouldn't have needed the down elevator in the first model. Some models do require certain systems JUST LIKE THE BIG ONES! Unless you have built one of these models then I suggest that you do before you start stating facts that you have no idea whether or not they apply to this particular model.
11-28-2010, 09:29 PM
#1761
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RE: Palmer 132
Sorry Avaiojet, I was referring to the horizontal stab airfoil, not the wing airfoil. The Herc, as many other heavy lift aircraft, has a horizontal stab with an upside down semi-symmetrical airfoil. This helps control the pitching moments of the wing.
Our models don't really need that setup because the loads and cg don't change. We don't have or need trim tabs because the servos do all the work.
I really didn't want to get into all the engineering aerodynamics. I was simply trying to make sure we were referring to the same thing. You know, apples and oranges. If I stated something that was incorrect please let me know.
BTW my C-130 took almost 1/2" down elevator to fly level.
Our models don't really need that setup because the loads and cg don't change. We don't have or need trim tabs because the servos do all the work.
I really didn't want to get into all the engineering aerodynamics. I was simply trying to make sure we were referring to the same thing. You know, apples and oranges. If I stated something that was incorrect please let me know.
BTW my C-130 took almost 1/2" down elevator to fly level.
01-01-2011, 02:57 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
Olson;
The VERY BEST NEW YEAR to you also!
Mike Popescu has logged 19 flights on his latest C-130 and you can see his 19th flight on Utube@ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-42W1j164s.
Frank
The VERY BEST NEW YEAR to you also!
Mike Popescu has logged 19 flights on his latest C-130 and you can see his 19th flight on Utube@ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-42W1j164s.
Frank
01-02-2011, 10:09 AM
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RE: Palmer 132
Hello
Thanks Frank I have watched the video looks great, I am still waiting for the spring to come here in Denmark but I am going to an indoor display with my Hercules so there is a little to do, I am making a slide show with photos on my computer to go with it.
Thanks Frank I have watched the video looks great, I am still waiting for the spring to come here in Denmark but I am going to an indoor display with my Hercules so there is a little to do, I am making a slide show with photos on my computer to go with it.
01-13-2011, 09:52 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
Hi Guys,
Im posting this form hospital where for last whole month i have been care giver for my father in critical condition. Drs have given hope that dad will live for long, itès matter of time when he will go. Due to all this im under severe stress, pressure, im frustrated due uncertainty that now i need time for myself but i cant. I come on here to have bit of conversation so my mind escapes the reality for a bit n i can get bit calmer.
Over the time my C130 got more damaged in forward fuselage when accidently my cat fell on it from the window above it. I was thinking a while ago to skin the fuselage and fin with 2mm-3mm depron skin and then lightly glass if with threeforth oz fibergalss cloth. Once thing settle here, ièm thinking to start on C130 for a bit but my main model to work on isd my one twelveth scale EDF Concorde under making but on hold for about a month n half due dads condition.
Sam
Im posting this form hospital where for last whole month i have been care giver for my father in critical condition. Drs have given hope that dad will live for long, itès matter of time when he will go. Due to all this im under severe stress, pressure, im frustrated due uncertainty that now i need time for myself but i cant. I come on here to have bit of conversation so my mind escapes the reality for a bit n i can get bit calmer.
Over the time my C130 got more damaged in forward fuselage when accidently my cat fell on it from the window above it. I was thinking a while ago to skin the fuselage and fin with 2mm-3mm depron skin and then lightly glass if with threeforth oz fibergalss cloth. Once thing settle here, ièm thinking to start on C130 for a bit but my main model to work on isd my one twelveth scale EDF Concorde under making but on hold for about a month n half due dads condition.
Sam
01-14-2011, 02:18 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
Sam;
Your father is lucky to have someone like you to take care of him! Lots of folks don't have someone to take care of them. I like to wish your father a speedy recovery and healthy days ahead.
frank
Your father is lucky to have someone like you to take care of him! Lots of folks don't have someone to take care of them. I like to wish your father a speedy recovery and healthy days ahead.
frank
01-27-2011, 03:00 AM
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RE: Palmer 132
Frank, Hernik, Don and Roger
Thanks alot for caring and being here for me. Things are not improving n are on steady decline with my father. To give him my ultimate in comfort, care and happiness, this past Sunday i got married here in the hospital on Skype with my wife in ISB, Pakistan. It all happened so fast and so smooth with blessings of God Almighy that i was surprised after the wedding Vows that i'm actually now married!...I'm very very of this part but very very sad on my dad's end. It was happy sad marriage for me but my in-laws are so good and understanding that we did small low pro wedding in dinning hall of this ward and they are happy with it due to current circumstances.
Don't worry non of my models or hobbies will go anywhere as my wife is into manly stuff then typical girly girly things 99% of women do, she loves cars n races them in ISB and also into airplanes n loves my hobby, so i'm set n in heaven in this prespective.
Sam
Thanks alot for caring and being here for me. Things are not improving n are on steady decline with my father. To give him my ultimate in comfort, care and happiness, this past Sunday i got married here in the hospital on Skype with my wife in ISB, Pakistan. It all happened so fast and so smooth with blessings of God Almighy that i was surprised after the wedding Vows that i'm actually now married!...I'm very very of this part but very very sad on my dad's end. It was happy sad marriage for me but my in-laws are so good and understanding that we did small low pro wedding in dinning hall of this ward and they are happy with it due to current circumstances.
Don't worry non of my models or hobbies will go anywhere as my wife is into manly stuff then typical girly girly things 99% of women do, she loves cars n races them in ISB and also into airplanes n loves my hobby, so i'm set n in heaven in this prespective.
Sam
01-27-2011, 04:10 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
Sam;
I'm sorry about your father's condition and hope all will end up well. Congratulations on your marriage. It sounds like you should keep this lady as she has a good perspective on life and circumstances. Best of everything and many blessings to you both!
Frank
I'm sorry about your father's condition and hope all will end up well. Congratulations on your marriage. It sounds like you should keep this lady as she has a good perspective on life and circumstances. Best of everything and many blessings to you both!
Frank
01-31-2011, 07:26 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
hello my name is mike and i have been reading this thread for about a week or so and have decided i want to build the c130 gunship. this should be fun considering i have never owned an rc of any kind let alone fly one.....baby steps i guess . first thing first i have to build it lol......i have taken alot of notes on the snags of this build as well....im excited already n havnt ordered a single part yet. i do have an attention for detail and a love for woodworking so i guess ill be ok with a lil help. i would also like to say that all the builds i have seen on here look sweet!
02-22-2011, 07:53 PM
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RE: Palmer 132
Hi guys,
I'm afraid condition of my father is on decline now more then before. Therefore i have decided to sell my C130 project. It has been listed in "Multi engine aircrafts for sale" section of this site. If you can help me sell it, it will be great help to takecare of certain things needed to be taken care of now days.....
Sam
I'm afraid condition of my father is on decline now more then before. Therefore i have decided to sell my C130 project. It has been listed in "Multi engine aircrafts for sale" section of this site. If you can help me sell it, it will be great help to takecare of certain things needed to be taken care of now days.....
Sam