JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

If airframes are allowed to be altered, why bother specifying what airframes are legal? If I want to stretch a Phoenix by 6 inches, great for me, but it is no longer a Phoenix. If modified airframes are allowed, then we should just be running " Continuation Pattern" or "Non-turnaround" and limit the engine sizes. .61 two stroke, .82 4 stroke. It would basically pick up where AMA pattern stopped before turnaround came to fruition.

If we regulate airframes, then they should be the same wingspan and length at the orginals. It is not practical to police anything else on contest day.
Personally, I would also enforce a trike vs. tail dragger gear rule too. If it was a trike, it still should be a trike, but I know that will meet some resistance. Use the same engine rules as above and call it a day.

It seems like folks want to have their cake and eat it too. In my opinion, you can't have the SPA and CPA with airframes that are changed from the orginials. I know that everybody that built planes back then did their own special tweaks and mods, but that was then and they were working with and competing with state of the art equipment. This whole movement is about remembering the way it was, not the way it might have evovled if turnaround didn't appear.

And for the love of all things holy, retracts should be allowed in ALL classes in all organizations!!!!!

my 2 cents.

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

I'd just like to stress the highlighted text is where opinions differ. I understand your opinion. But I think the broader goal was to "revive" the usage of the faster pre-turnaround planes, and also promote camaraderie in the events associated with their flight (call them competitions if you like). I'll wager the lion's share of the BPA (CPA) guys don't have those memories, and will simply want to partake in flying the pre-turnaround patterns with planes that "pay homage" to the fast and sleek ships of that day. Having a strict view of allowable airframes seems counterproductive in that case:: much in the same way dis-allowing pipes and retracts alienated a lot of would be participants.

To me this is a lot like scale modelers "paying homage" to their favorite planes (ie warbirds). Everyone has a favorite, and will stress certain traits of the full scale plane in their rendition. I'll wager the first instinct of any full scale pilot is not to correct the modeler concerning "errors" in the scale authenticity, but any such pilot seeing his bird fly in miniature would probably be honored and not care so much which details were omitted or modeled inaccurately.

This is a hobby after all and we (you) should do what makes you (or the greatest number of folks) happy.
Joe
(watching from the sidelines with interest)

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

If the majorty of folks that fly SPA and CPA events wish to allow any plane fly the pre-turnaround patterns, more power to them. If people want to build a totally new design plane with a Rossi .61 FIRE on a pipe and fly it in a CPA event should they be allowed?

If the airframe rules arent enforced, then we can fly anything that fits the engine rules? I could fly my old YS 120 powered Caprice or Viper, yes?

When does it stop being CPA and becoming

"The 2011 Tidewater RC 1983 Pattern Contest" fly anything you want to old 1983 Pattern Sequence.
Know what I mean?

stuntflyr

Edited...
Sorry, I swore to myself I'd stay out of political rules based controversy when I came over to R/C. My apologies. You boys talk it over, I'll just show up and fly.
Chris...
Edited...

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I admire the BPA folks. They decided not to try to change the SPA into what they wanted, leaving it for those that like it as it is, or close enough. They had the energy and foresight to start another organization, which is a lot of work. Starting other organizations to these two is still possible if you feel strong enough about having different rules and models. Don't keep *****ing about the SPA, BPA and CPA rules. Make your own organization that you and others want it to be. There is no rule saying that you can't fly in a dozen different pattern organization. There is already an AMA, so you don't have to worry about constructing another just to fly in or sponsor a pattern contest once or twice a year.


Ed Cregger

eness76-RCU

My Feedback: (13)

as many have stated, if you believe that all the planes should be per plan, original style engines and such, that's great. Build your plane the way you want to, power it with what you see as proper and bring it out and fly and have a good time. You will find out it's the carpenter not his tools. If you are good, you will smoke everybody with your original plane, believe me. If it's "not about that", than where is the argument? Everybody is free to build a plane exactly per the plan. You will find a modern 61 with muffler about 6-8oz heavier then a period correct 2 stroke, so you'll have a lump of lead on the tail. Done deal.

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

It should be easy to do this. Date the airplane your flying with plans or old ads from the period.

If CPA wants to fly anything designed before 1990 then an airplane designed before that date is legal. (Set the date as they want)

If BPA wants fast, wheels up and on the pipe they can do that as well.

AMA Does this for Nostalgia Gliders.

I'm planning on an EU1A or a T2A this winter. If I can find a kit somewhere.

Tim

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

So basically, everyone is free to fly SPAish and CPAish planes. If someone says, yep thats a Curare, then that is all we need. It doesn't matter that its a tail dragger, with the wing moved forward 2 inches, larger stab, increased fuse depth with a Jett 100 in the nose. If that is the way the rules will be interpreted and enforced, so be it, at least there is a constant. I would not expect each plane to be built per the plans, just have the same basic dimensions and wheel location as the original along with an engine size rule.

If all of this is for the fun of flying non-turnaround pattern, then it does not matter what plane is flown as everyone is there for the comraderie. Humans being humans, the guy that wins a lot will be imitated in airplane choice as long as his plane seems like it is technically superior. If the winner is flying a beat up old Kaos, I doub't there will be a rash of Kaoss?? at the next contest because that is not thought of as a 'premium' ballistic pattern plane.

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

T2A kit.....
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=698903

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Ryan;

Nice to hear from you, and thanks for your support of CPA AND SPA!!

Hope to see you at a contest next season

Duane

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Ed...No offense, but you "cracked me up" with that statement. Couldn't help but comment because I was involved in PLENTY of threads with people griping about this or that about SPA, and saying they would join IF this or that was changed.

I know what your point was, but many people tried very hard to change SPA, (but basically, we wanted to leave the rules alone...at least for the time being). BPA, (now CPA) was formed because somebody got tired of complaining, and did exactly what you suggested, and I think "Classic Pattern Competition" is far better off with more options.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Well, sometimes I get on here and my brilliant ideas (at least brilliant to me) drift or fade away. Ischemia (insufficient blood flow - in my case, to the brain) can do that to anyone. Folks are now suggesting that if I'm not a member of the SPA that I have no right to comment about it and its policies. Go ahead ya'll. Suggest away. I'll go away when the management throws me out or God calls me home. If I bother you that much, perhaps you should consider going away. Or, as someone else suggested, just block my name. (smile)

I'm not referring to you, Duane.


Ed Cregger

John Hancock

I wish when someone posted on this thread, they would put their SPAnumber on the top of the post so I would know if I needed to read it.

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

You realize this is a public forum, don't you? What is the point in airing thoughts like these here if you expect only to read stuff you already agree with?

Without forums like these, I'd have only Duane's article to know about the SPA and BPA. I'm assuming any debate going on here is done with constructive goals in mind. If not, perhaps a more private forum is warranted.

Thank you to those who take the time explaining what, why and how you like these aircraft.

Joe Chovan

ChiefK

Duane,

I'm ready to shut up and have some fun. See you in Asheville next summer. Thanks to Scott, I have a new set of Deception cores and glass canopy. I have a feeling that this is going to be a good one.

Greg
SPA-444

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Greg,

Glad all made it ok.... looking forward to seeing the plane...maybe do a build thread on the other classic forum site ?

Scott CPA#2
SPA 239
NSRCA 529




Glad to see upstate in here now... Originally from Binghamton NY with the AGS.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Who cut the cheese?


Ed Cregger

edh13

My Feedback: (9)

Great. Now I got ice tea all over my shirt...

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

I wish when someone posted on this thread, they would put their SPA number on the top of the post so I would know if I needed to read it.


T-Dude - Nuff said, you nailed it.

Crank

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

If you guys really feel that way, why don't you just use the "block user" feature (the little red hand at the bottom of each post).

Hi PatternPilot. Some friends used to fly pattern with the ARCS in Marcellus when they had their primer sessions. That's about 30 minutes south of me. I believe most of those guys flew in contests down near Binghamton. This is back when Terry Terrenoire wrote the pattern column for RC Report and Dave Mathewson wasn't yet our DII AVP.

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Terry T. and Bob Noll where my coaches... we had the contest at the sayre site... email me direct if you like [email protected]

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

.

flyingtheoldones

My Feedback: (1)

We did (we,with myself included) tried to bend the SPA guys as much as we could. Until finally someonehad theidea of forminga separategroup. What was it, 5 or 6 years ago? well, First came the idea of starting a group, then someone built a web site and logo, then we wanted to hold an event. But there wasn't very many members yet, so the SPA guys invitedthe BPAto fly with them at their events. BPA wouldn't have gotten as far as they did without the help of the SPA guys.

Setting strict rules for the entrants ofthe eventscould deter many people away. The SPA and the BPA combined is still a small group. Combine that with being spread outthousands of miles from each other, It's hardto get peopleto participate in the events. Keeping it a gentleman's contestmakes it inviting for anyone who can find the time and the finances to show up and get involved with the hobby.


DM

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

And I spit out my coffee all over the place!!!
Mark

SPA 384
AMA 63845
NSRCA (don't have a number yet)
will get around to CPA and BPA and whatever else needed to flywhat I used to fly....

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Hook,

CPA & BPA same... CPA the new name

www.classicpatternassociation.com