Sport_Pilot

Yak18

My Feedback: (11)

Except for the Turbine ban and weight restrictions (unconstitutional). ALL the remaining speed and altitude rules are unprovable and thus unenforcable! Peoples opinions do not stand up in court. I think these rules are like a lot of govenment rules...just a CYA attempt for the government. In practice, the FAA will have less than zero interest in enforcing any of them.

I'm an air traffic controller and 32 year federal government employee.

77chickenhawk

maybe they will make us install something like eagle tree on our planes with GPS tracking

jbdismukes

My Feedback: (2)

Bottom line, we, as RCers, need to self-enforce whatever rules apply now as well as in the future. We all have seen examples of the actions of a few scoff-laws getting the media attention whichdetermines the public perception of the entire group. If an uninformed individual chooses to take a club/individual to court, for whatever reason, the past performance of that club/individual can have a big impact on the outcome.

FBaity

My Feedback: (2)

YAK18,

Well said sir.

Frank Baity
AMA 38026

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

While I respect your opinion, your position isn't the same as being on the "other side" of the deal when the FAA comes in the door at the local airport and therefore, I don't believe your position is very well informed.

As others have noted, I've dealt with some really good FAA reps and some REALLY bad ones but the issue here is the "higher ups" who for the most part are there due to political prowess vs. actual capability and they are MUCH more concerned about how things look than how they actually exist. Then you figure that while the FAA would be technically charged with enforcing the new rules, their primary authority is license actions and that won't do much for issues with folks who do not have any licenses to threatened. So you then look to the NTSB who "usually" does the nastier enforcement actions and those folks are REALLY political. So if the FAA is supposed to be the primary enforcer, then the users need to be required to have some sort of license.

A couple of other things to think about; there really isn't much written in the FAR's on RC as previously noted and you have to remember RC has come a long way since those were published. FPV wasn't even a consideration since it didn't exist, commercial use of RC models was almost unheard of let alone "toys" that can exceed 200 MPH and burn kerosene, batteries that can catch fire if involved in a crash, bigger "models" that can actually carry quite a bit of weight (how much does C4 weigh anyway?) for their size.... get the picture?

Yeah the FAA doesn't care about our hobby stuff but they also don't really worry about unintended consequences too much and we could get hamstrung by regs meant for commercial type operators, that is the concern.

zac137

I know I am going to get it for my opinion but, I don't see the problem with having altitude restrictions and restricting RC flying within a certain distance from airports. After all, full scale airplanes are carrying humans. Although I think the rules that have been brought up are only to define what is hobby RC aircraft and what is UAV aircraft.

Zach 

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Camels nose under the tent. Eventually they will do something to you that you do care about. Best not to let them try to get in, in the first place.

Sport_Pilot

You probably violate the 400 foot rule every time you try to stay above the pattern where others are flying. Pattern and IMACcompetition box's are almost 1,000 feet tall. You are capable of steering your model away from oncoming aircraft. It's really very restrictive.

jerrya

My Feedback: (4)

Our club field is in the middle of nowhere, at least 20 miles from the nearest airport. What is the point of restricting us to a 400' altitude? I have a .40 sized sport plane equipped with an altimeter and just in the course of flying one flight I routinely exceed 600'. Most fliers have no clue as to how high they are during a flight. This will regulate sailplanes out of existance.
It seems to me that this whole issue is just another government takeover of our freedoms. For many years now the government has been promising us more security if we will just give up a few more of our freedoms. Millions of uninformed people buy into this government lie and allow the beaurocrats to take away our freedoms little by little. As a consequence we have now less secutity and fewer freedoms. One day we will all be subjects of the beaurocrats with no freedoms left. For many years many (liberals) in the government have been trying to take away the right of gun ownership of the citizens. Were it not for the NRA there would probably be no privately owned guns today. Will the AMA stand up for us as such? I doubt it.

zac137

I didn't say I don't care about the rules being purposed I saidI don't have a problem with a couple of them. True, 400 feet may be a bit low for a ceiling but, I don't think we should be flying our RC planes around active full scale airports.

Zach

prop wash

Why not??We[club] have been flying since 1968 2 mi from a local full scale airport and have a perfect record.No complaints,no close calls not one bit of trouble.Some of the pilots ,after landing,come by to watch.This all could go down the tubes if the Faa sticks it's nose in and so on.I love this country and the constitution and firmly believe this government is getting out of hand.IMHO
Tom

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

They could just make us put our cell phones in our planes while we are flying. I am sure we are being tracked and watched through them anyway.

Sport_Pilot

So because you don't think we should be flying RC planes around active full scale airports, means those who do fly planes around active full scale airports and do it safely without any incedences, should lose their freedom to do so?

Look just because you don't think flying around full scale airports is unsafe, doesn't mean others who know how to do so cannot do this safely.

Sport_Pilot

If they haven't put a brain implant into you yet. What do you think all of these alien abductions are about?

zac137

Funny you should say that, I was just abducted last week. Long story.
But seriously, I don't want freedom taken from anyone. I just think it is not a bad idea to have some sort of ceiling and a perscribed distance from an active airport.

Zach

acerc

Just my two cent's
A few year's back I had a neighbor with a ( park flyer) airplane lose control, lack of proper battery nowledge, hit a car way down the road. I had tried several times to get him to join our local club. His responce was as some I've seen on this thread, no need there's a driveway, there's a road or park or open field etc etc etc, He denied it was his. I enlightened the authorities with a phone video. People of that nature is what will kill our Hobby. And don't kid yourself if you think they can't stop us from flying. If you can't buy them you can't fly them. And as for those whom already have them, jam them.

Stopping us would be very easy, so support the AMA, write to whom you can, when you can and tell everyone about this thatyou can.

bor5

My Feedback: (8)

All of the flying fields in my surronding area are established and have been operating safely for years. If the rules are changed to restrict RC airfields to a minimum of 5 miles from any airport, every RC club will have to close. The easy answer is "well just relocate" to outside the 5 mile zone. Easier said than done. How about the investment in time and money that went into the established clubs. And what if we do relocate to outside the 5 mile zone? Any crackpot can take that rc weapon, drive it to a road near the airport and let it go. This rumored regulation posses a real threat to the hobby and the industry that supports it.

acerc

Those of us that follw the rule's must do what we can. But keep in mind, it's not us that are creating the promblem. And on that note, I for one must agree that something has to be done towards those that don't care.
At a local park one weekend I saw a young man attempting to fly a small YAK 3D EP. There had to be close to a hundred people there, adults and children running around evrywhere.
He could'nt get it airborne at that time, Fortunately no one got hurt . So maybe something like you can't buy them unless youra member of AMA and a club?

Self policeing only goes as far as the club and it's member's. Outside of the club there is none.

Longbaskt

My Feedback: (5)

I saw this tread earlier on RCU. Apparently the people involved were from France. They came over to pull a bone-head stunt like this and we end up with the FAA looking at American fliers. We all need to keep up on the topic... but hold off commenting until something concrete is proposed by the FAA. The AMA is our best choice at this time to work with the FAA and explain our situation... Unless of course, you non-AMA members want to form another association of some size and take them on yourselves. Seriously, we need a spokesman. And right now that's the AMA. I hear a lot on RCU, that "I fly in a private area/field/back-yard/ whatever and I don't need the AMA". How many manufactures would be putting out kits, ARF, radios, fuel, batteries... etc. if the AMA went away? Do you think for one moment that some hobby store is going to make a business plan supporting 12 or fewer guys that fly out of their own back yard? It seems to me that in very short order... No AMA, no flying fields, no industry, no planes for anyone (except perhaps rubber powered... those can't even get out of their own way, let alone hurt anyone) '>. Believe it or not... IT's not all just about YOU.

If you don't like the AMA... change it. If you didn't join don't ***** about what it is and isn't.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Zach:
Like I said in another post. At the AMA Convention in Onterio CA I asked this question "We have been flying for over 30 years at a Private restricted airport with out somuch as an incedent or even a clos call with any Full scale or Ultra light aircraft. We are alst about 4 Statute miles from the centerline of a victor airway. Will we be able to continue Flying at this location. The FAA said thay could neither confirm or deney any thing that might be in the NPRM.

The key to mixing Full Scale and RC air Craft is continued Viglance of all involved. per FAA Regulation all aircraft intending to land at an uncontroled airport are required to enter on a 45 to the downwind leg of their intended runway of landing and maintain 1000 feet above the ground untill in a position to start a decent for landing on that runway. Also Aircraft transinint the aera should be at least 500 feet above published pattern altitude.

If Full scale aircraft follow the FAR's The safest place to fly is on the airport, Because there pattern is at least 1/2 mile from the runway area and most aircraft are farther than that away on down wind, While RC aircraft should stay within 1000 ft. from the center of the RC Runway.

Like I said in over 30 years of flying at this location we have not had any problems. We did have to tell one full scale RV4 Pilot to stop comming stright in to the field at about 160 MPH. Just reminded him that his stupid disreguard for the FAR's might cause him to ruin a perfictally good RC Airplane ... And maybe Really Ruin his DAY. I Think he got the message ... haven't seen him in a few years.

zac137

HoundDog- You do have a valid point. We should always be watching out for what is going on around us but what happens when that RV driver comes back and does something stupid and hits one of your RC planes? The FAA will be all over the RCer's, and of course the RVdriver, but it will give the RC community a bad name. Also what happens when a FS comes in on an IFR approach, they will be well below 1000 feet? All I'm saying is there is more than meets the eye when it comes to an RC airplane flying around close to active airports. IFR operations is one.

Thanks for your input.
Zach

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

To the OP, where and when did you get this info?

5 pages based on conjecture, no verifiable proof.

Too much Chicken Little IMO.

Please comment and post facts, or don't post at all!!

ED

Veltro

My Feedback: (1)

That happened to you, too?! OMG!


For anyone who is interested, BVM posted the following on their website:

Required Reading
for Jet Pilots
by: Bob Violett

The February 2011 issue of Model Aviation features an interview of an F.A.A. representative by A.M.A.
representatives, Dave Mathewson and Rich Hansen relative to the N.P.R.M. that will affect our hobby.
After we understand this impending challenge, we must all ask ourselves, “what can we do to minimize
the government’s interest in regulating our activities?”

A Few Suggestions

• Improve our efforts to self govern. This means that we have a thorough knowledge of the A.M.A.
Safety Code, Turbine Waiver Regulations, and “See and Avoid” documents; see
www.modelaircraft.org/documents.aspx. It is the responsibility of each one of us to thoroughly
comprehend and abide by these documents.

• Use the “Buddy System”, i.e. help each other to accomplish the above and ensure the safety of the
vehicle before and during flight.

• Ensure that the radio transmitter and E.C.U. Failsafe system is properly programmed before each
flight. Know that each time that the receiver (JR DSM etc.) is “bound” to a different transmitter, the
Failsafe must be reset.

• Use speed limiting devices on your jet models that are capable of 200+ mph. JetCat and Jet Central
E.C.U.’s have this feature. Know the Vne of your model and limit it accordingly. See
www.bvmjets.com/Pages/Speed_Control.htm for BVM jets and Skymaster jets that we have tested.

• Know that the engine must be shut down at the FIRST SIGN of a control problem. If the engine is shut
down just 2‐3 seconds prior to impact, the fire potential is remote. This is a public safety item.

• Avoid the sensationalism of publishing videos of any incidents that may occur. They can only hurt our
cause.

• Know that agents of the Federal Government have attended jet events, and tuned into chat rooms
and You Tube for the last 2‐3 years and that some jet modelers have done some pretty stupid things in
their presence. Others have bragged to the world just how fast a turbine powered model can fly. It is
this potential (of turbine power) for extreme velocity that has attracted the attention of regulatory
agencies.

• There are “Standards Committees” now working within the A.M.A. structure to support our positions
to self govern. It is sensible to have guidelines that help modelers improve the safety of high
performance models. Just one example of areas to be addressed is control surface actuation. Using a
cheap servo on a major control surface of a high performance model just doesn’t make sense. “Cheap”
means low, or no quality control at the manufacturing and/or distribution levels. We should guard
against such practice.

• Know that we have very competent representatives in the A.M.A. that are working hard to protect
our freedoms. Show support and let them know that you appreciate their efforts.

Look • See • Avoid

• During the entire time that your model is airborne, your spotter’s primary duty is to constantly scan
the skies for man carrying aircraft operating below 3,000 ft and advise you how best to avoid any
possible perception of a conflict. The pilot should always throttle back, descend, and turn away. The
pilot/passengers in the real aircraft should never see a model airplane in any position that could in
anyway be considered a threat.

Conclusion

The freedom to fly turbine jet models brings with it serious responsibility. Let us renew our efforts
and prove that we can handle it. How we conduct our activities before and during the NPRM process is
paramount to the future of our sport.

Notes: “Required Reading” was borrowed from my Naval Aviation experience. The Squadron Flight
Safety Officer posted excerpts from the “Natops” manuals and recent accident reports to improve
operational safety. We (the pilots) had to read and initial these weekly reminders. It was a successful
effort to reduce losses of the tax payer funded fighter jets and keep us from busting our #ss.

• See also www.bvmjets.com/Pages/Safety/safety.htm for more information

US185Damiani

FYI

From Aero-News this morning

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?C...5-7c5248645401&