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Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

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Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Old 02-24-2011, 03:49 PM
  #876  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: jjpetro

I don't understand your response which I suppose is due to the language barrier. However, your English is better than my Dutch.

I'm just curious what software you used to generate your renderings. It looks like it could have been created with Photo Modeler, Image Modeler, (even Sketchup) or some similar software.
No there is no language barrier, only first read the thread before asking questions.
An example!
Did you see this post 1720 and 1721, 6/15/2009? Have special attention for the smiley in post 1721:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8853456

On that moment I already did spend many, many hundreds of hours to show the history of the crate and the reality of the Taurusses. The proves as shown with the pictures were a very serious action and the results of a long reconstruction process of two Taurussus, one of them unique and reconstructed with use of data and pictures, the other started in 2004. The reconstructed Taurusses both does fit exactly in the picture of the crate.

I did realize pimmnz and kingaltair not did have any serious attention for the results but even were peeking fun out of the situation. They play the official representatives of SPA and VRCS, don’t forget that!

A pity, look also at this post 472 date 24/5/2009:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8794595

Three weeks earlier I already did start the design of the Simla, Ed’s Cream Puff of which you see the results now. In that period I also did realize you didn't need me anymore! Never!

Cees
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:03 AM
  #877  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Gents,

I do not built the Simla for commercial reasons, only as a tribute to Ed Kazmirski for in my Hangar of Fame.
Just as the original it will be my personal plane and for that I may give it the name Simla, same construction details, same dimensions, same engine power, no computer radio. Just to experience the way how it is to fly the Simla.
To show a detail of the photo comparison the black dash, see the orange circle, has to be shorter. This is the way I also can make the paint scheme within mm’s, but digital photographs do have to show me the end result. That again will be dozens of photographs.

I also did find a picture of the Cream Puff of Vic Husak in the archive, Toledoshow, Februari 28 1965, so a little older as the Simla and when we look at the details we can say: "The father of the Simla", engine power, plug in wings, 101" Look even at the rudder hinge slope.
"Paint" lines and dots and calculation numbering, the way it all begins!
Cream Puff? No, reality in the future and no imagination!
Imagination I need when I do not see compare pictures!
More to come

Cees


Extra note: BEST FINISH AWARD of Vic, just as the "Lufthanse Award for Concours d' Elegance" of Ed (Genk 1963) noted in the time schedule!
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:05 AM
  #878  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

"I did realize pimmnz and kingaltair not did have any serious attention for the results but even were peeking fun out of the situation. They play the official representatives of SPA and VRCS, don’t forget that!"

It's really a shame that you would say that about Pimmnz and Kingaltair Cees. The two in reality, have done nothing more than ask you to share your findings/results and documentation in order to best portray that piece of Eddy K's history. Neither has laid a claim to being the one and only "know it all" or "has it all". The sad thing is that no one really ventures into your thread anymore, even though you oftenpresent interesting and unique ideas/concepts, your insulting style (as evidenced again in this post) has driven the heart of classic pattern enthusiast away. I ventured in again, but this will certainly be the last time I do. You pretty much displayed some true (albeit poor) colors here with that comment; fortunately for you it will mostly gounnoticed. Enjoy yourself Cees.

hook
Old 02-25-2011, 08:01 AM
  #879  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

You did step on the wrong train. Do some study in history of the stations we visit in the past, you have to know these! Just an example, post 170, but there are many more:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8279322

I must take Cees to task, all this 'Angle of the tailcone' stuff is simply rubbish

Keep in mind my train started a long time before this first post of 3/2/2004 of me (post 14) and has basically his own independent route based on facts and proves:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1583674

Keep also in mind your situation I compare with receiving equipment and photographs of the estate of Dr. Christiaan Neethling Barnard ( South Africa, 1922 – 2001) and now you and your team are thinking having these you can do a human to human heart transplant yourself.

I prefer to do my hobby, modeling, even if people do find the results rubbish. That’s why I did start this thread, and if you stay, have a nice journey even the trail is over the mountains for a while.

Cees
Old 02-25-2011, 09:57 AM
  #880  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Cees,

"No there is no language barrier, only first read the thread before asking questions. "

I have read the thread over the past year(s). I've kept up with it ever since your first post. Because of the time I spend in design work and many other activities I don't visit RCU much and post even less. I even decided to hold my reactions during your "pot shot" in post 607 (that's me, the exceptionally handsome guy on the right, Rusty and I are securing the wing to the NATS winning Taurus for display at a VRCS event). However, I thought your renderings were worth a positive comment. It appeared to me it was generated in 3D software, that's why I asked what software you used. But, perhaps you just Photoshopped it.

Of course, the renderings are the least of the work you have done here - which has been exceptional, as well.

BTW - I'm not a "kit cutter".

Regards

Old 02-25-2011, 10:47 AM
  #881  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

You did step on the wrong train. Nope, at least not since 1977. Do some study in history of the stations we visit in the past, you have to know these! Just an example, post 170, but there are many more:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8279322

I must take Cees to task, all this 'Angle of the tailcone' stuff is simply rubbish

Keep in mind my train started a long time before this first post of 3/2/2004 of me (post 14) and has basically his own independent route based on facts and proves: Yep, been reading it, only joined in 2009, but able to read since 1961 or so!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1583674

Keep also in mind your situation (I know my situation, you don't)I compare with receiving equipment and photographs of the estate of Dr. Christiaan Neethling Barnard ( South Africa, 1922 – 2001) and now you and your team (wrong again, I belong to Team Hook, and only Team Hook!) are thinking having these you can do a human to human heart transplant yourself (I have to doubt that even the Mighty Cees is capable of transplant surgey, but it was a good laugh).

I prefer to do my hobby, modeling, even if people do find the results rubbish. That’s why I did start this thread, and if you stay, have a nice journey even the trail is over the mountains for a while (justcompleted a journey to and from that was "overhills and far away"; but it was nice, it was warm, and I flew planes too!). Just FYI, I only came back to see what JJP posted.......... hk

Cees
Old 02-25-2011, 11:20 AM
  #882  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: jjpetro

Cees,

''No there is no language barrier, only first read the thread before asking questions. ''

I have read the thread over the past year(s). I've kept up with it ever since your first post. Because of the time I spend in design work and many other activities I don't visit RCU much and post even less. I even decided to hold my reactions during your ''pot shot'' in post 607 (that's me, the exceptionally handsome guy on the right, Rusty and I are securing the wing to the NATS winning Taurus for display at a VRCS event). However, I thought your renderings were worth a positive comment. It appeared to me it was generated in 3D software, that's why I asked what software you used. But, perhaps you just Photoshopped it.

Of course, the renderings are the least of the work you have done here - which has been exceptional, as well.

BTW - I'm not a ''kit cutter''.
Regards



Jeff,
Let me split my feedback, first the learning curve:

I am the "friend" Duane referred to who is kitting the King Altair and the Taurus. I am currently working on the Orion, Ed's answer to the Astro Hog. I told Duane a few days ago that I gladly offer up my services in creating a solution to the Simla mystery. Let me know if you need any input from the laser cutting, milling, or manufacturing engineering side of this "project".

How to call your actions: kit cutter?

Let me show some other facts I know:

[i]Hi John,

I'd sure hate to see a grown man cry! So I'll tell you right off that your search has ended, you found me and the Taurus! I don't have any at the moment but I'm getting ready to produce another run of the Taurus short kit! Your search has come to an end and a fitting one!

I used to own Custom Cutters, I did custom kit cutting and I produced a line of Giant Scale kits. After about 12 years of manufacturing I pretty much burned out, I also work a full time job, and a full time part time job became too much so I closed up the shop. The Taurus was the last of my line but was never produced. After a year or so I decided that I should at least try to get some of my time out of the redesign and started making short kits. Not many, 20-30 a year, pretty much just when I feel like it or when enough diligent searchers like yourself find me! I like to produce in quantities of 10, easy to order the laser cut parts that way, and I've been waiting for around 2-3 more people to show interest. Well your 2 fills the bill and I guess I'll have to get to ordering material and parts!

About the kit. This short kit is a redraw of original plans, 71" span, .45-.60 engine, I updated
the design to more modern methods and did away with some of the more
troublesome building features. The wing is now a bolt on instead of rubber
bands, the leading edge is built up and shaped instead of the curved
sheeting of the original. Parts count was reduced and 1/32 ply was used as a
doubler in the fuse both in the front and in the rear at the tail where
there was a weak spot in the design. A more modern firewall was incorporated
so that modern engine mounts could be used instead of the original hardwood
beams.

The short kit includes a full set of plans with templates, laser cut ribs,
formers, and tailfeathers. A preshaped balsa topdeck, formed main gear, and
a canopy pulled from an original rounds out the kit.

Price is $75 each US plus shipping.

I agree with you that the Taurus is the best flying airplane that I have ever owned, nothing compares. I've since left the hobby and don't fly anymore but still get the itch once and a while. Being that I don't model anymore I don't hit the R/C sites on the internet much, if you would do me a favor and put a post on RC Airport that you have found the Taurus and me, just in case there are any other searchers out there looking. Feel free to stick my email address in.

I will add your name to the list and I will let you know when the kits are ready to ship. No payment until the kits are ready that way there won't be any hard feelings if I get hit by a truck and don't finish them!>

Thanks for finding me John,

Regards,
Lance



" As luck would have it Lance wished to sell his small business and I bought it from him."


Cees
Old 02-25-2011, 11:57 AM
  #883  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

By "American" definition (well, at least by my definition) a kit cutter is an individual or firm who owns a laser cutter (or die cutter) and cuts kits for contract work. I do not own a laser cutter and I do not contract out my services. I contract a kit manufacturer to cut my kits. I supply the laser cut files, my specifications, and they cut the laser sheets for me. For the time being, I would much rather contract the services of a knowledgeable kit manufacturing company than try to do it myself (that is not to say that other "kit cutters" don't know what they are doing). This is most of the reason why my kits are a bit more expensive than others, because I have to pay a contractor.

I cannot speak for Lance and the history of his "kit cutting" endeavors. However, when I bought this small enterprise from him he was using a kit manufacturer, too.

Now, you know the rest of the story.

Have a good day!
Old 02-25-2011, 12:02 PM
  #884  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Jeff,

Lance ordered his cutted materials, balsa but maybe also foam, see the letter.
Do I have to know it another way? And how do you want we call you? You did write:

Let me know if you need any input from the laser cutting, milling, or manufacturing engineering side of this "project".

But you are not a kit manufacturer, not a kit cutter and for manufacturing engineering of you "Oryon?" we do not see any result after more than 3 years!

I do have a schedule to archive all about the Taurus, also double checks,

This isn’t true.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9589314

ORIGINAL: kingaltair

One of Jeff's mods is a thin ply doubler...maybe it is one of Jeff's early fuselages. I've noticed that experienced builders often make mods, and build to taste if there is no reason to build it stock for historical purposes.

Duane
Read the letter of Lance:
Parts count was reduced and 1/32 ply was used as a
doubler in the fuse both in the front and in the rear at the tail where
there was a weak spot in the design.


All Taurus flyers know that and it wasn't a mod of you! Why not playing a clear game!

Cees
Old 02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
  #885  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth


ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

....................I also did find a picture of the Cream Puff of Vic Husak in the archive, Toledoshow, Februari 28 1965............................
Reminds me of another Vic Husak design I admired when the RCM construction article came out in February of 1972. The "Mr. Slick".

http://www.rcmplans.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1306

Tom
Old 02-25-2011, 12:34 PM
  #886  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Cees,
Correct, Lance made the 1/32 mod not only to the fuse tail section but to the front of the fuse. I took his design, re-drew it, and changed a few other things but kept that part of his design. Lance also incorporated a false leading edge/leading edge combo on the wing instead of the original "super formed" balsa leading edge. I kept that design, too.

For those who knew Lance, he and I had spent quite a few hours on the phone during the "transfer of business" and shortly thereafter. He had told me he was burned out, as he alluded to in his post. At the time we were talking he wanted to restore an old Datsun 240 Z he had sitting in his garage. I spoke to him about 6-8 months ago, he seems to be doing well.

Cees, though Duane and I know each other fairly well I'm not sure he knew the history of my small business when he wrote that I made the changes. I would assume, that he assumed, I came up with the current design I employ.

On a different topic: did you ever get your Orion repaired? I do not recall anything about it after the fence post pictures.

The weekend is upon us!! I hope everyone enjoys a nice flying weekend!!
Old 02-25-2011, 01:09 PM
  #887  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: jjpetro

Cees,
Correct, Lance made the 1/32 mod not only to the fuse tail section but to the front of the fuse. I took his design, re-drew it, and changed a few other things but kept that part of his design. Lance also incorporated a false leading edge/leading edge combo on the wing instead of the original ''super formed'' balsa leading edge. I kept that design, too.

For those who knew Lance, he and I had spent quite a few hours on the phone during the ''transfer of business'' and shortly thereafter. He had told me he was burned out, as he alluded to in his post. At the time we were talking he wanted to restore an old Datsun 240 Z he had sitting in his garage. I spoke to him about 6-8 months ago, he seems to be doing well.

Cees, though Duane and I know each other fairly well I'm not sure he knew the history of my small business when he wrote that I made the changes. I would assume, that he assumed, I came up with the current design I employ.

On a different topic: did you ever get your Orion repaired? I do not recall anything about it after the fence post pictures.

The weekend is upon us!! I hope everyone enjoys a nice flying weekend!!

Jeff,
Do you understand now why I did write:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10360130
Do you know you are the second kit cutter involved with the Ed Kazmirski‘s Taurus thread, the first one never did show up to prove his claim!

You the mods, I the rubbish!!

I collect all these facts.
I will write a response for the second part of post 880 that will be a funny one!!

Cees
Old 02-25-2011, 01:18 PM
  #888  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Yes, I believe I do understand now, though I didn't at the time I read it.

Just saw that you edited and added to post 884. I suppose it is not particularly crucial what I am called. My wife calls me honey, my kids call me daddy or pop, my boss calls me Engineering and Maintenance Manager, and my cat calls me "feed me".

As for the Oryon's delivery date, well, life's more important priorities tend to get in the way of my personal goals. This is, after all, a small side business.

Old 02-25-2011, 01:18 PM
  #889  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: Trisquire


ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

....................I also did find a picture of the Cream Puff of Vic Husak in the archive, Toledoshow, Februari 28 1965............................
Reminds me of another Vic Husak design I admired when the RCM construction article came out in February of 1972. The ''Mr. Slick''.

http://www.rcmplans.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1306

Tom
Tom,

I did show the picture of the Cream Puff to make sequence clear of Cream Puff and Simla.
Of course Vic was a perfect designer but I didn't know Vic in the first place but learn his name during the searches of the history of Ed.
Thanks for respond!

Cees

Old 02-25-2011, 02:08 PM
  #890  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

[
ORIGINAL: jjpetro

Yes, I believe I do understand now, though I didn't at the time I read it.

Just saw that you edited and added to post 884. I suppose it is not particularly crucial what I am called. My wife calls me honey, my kids call me daddy or pop, my boss calls me Engineering and Maintenance Manager, and my cat calls me ''feed me''.

As for the Oryon's delivery date, well, life's more important priorities tend to get in the way of my personal goals. This is, after all, a small side business.

Jeff,

I saw that too, but this was you did write :

The next kit is the Oryon. Design will begin on it in the spring of 2008.

and that I cannot combine with:

One evening while working on the design of the Ed Kazmirski Orion, I decided to
check the “Ed Kazmirski’s Taurus” Classic RC Pattern Flying thread on the RC Universe
forums.


Which I did read 16 februari 2011

And that is why I did write:
I will post the second part of post 880 that will be funny!
Because, what will people think about that?????

Cees.


Old 02-26-2011, 04:36 AM
  #891  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Jeff,

A question, do you own the copyrights af the plans as sold by the AMA?

Cees
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:54 PM
  #892  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Jeff, to complete my reply,
Do you know this phrase of you and about rights to duplicate a model airplane?

Well, just to keep everyone happy, I'll probably rename the kit and reference the "heritage" of the Taurus. There are enough interior structural and materials differences to warrant a name change.

Because I see you do change the names of planes after you copy these it are the reasons not to cooperate in a process for example of the Simla. Using the original pictures in your webpage of Taurus and Orion of Ed Kazmirksi I think isn’t correct either because these are not the planes you produce, also the description for example the Taurus isn’t correct.
Seeing the “officials” do not have any problems with these is alarming and can be the end of the classic pattern history!
These are all reasons I do not tell or show all my information and insert some distortion in pictures when I think it is needed to protect my data.
Because I do duplicate for own use I think I cannot have any problems and even use the name “Wester Taurus” and in the future “Wester Simla” for the time being.
About the Kazmirski’s planes? It is clear there is no need for any investment to create a professional rebuild replica for example in the museums, even there are a lot of pictures now and that again is a shame for such an important part of history and the most important USA modeler in the past.

Cees
Old 02-26-2011, 03:29 PM
  #893  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth


... and the most important USA modeler in the past.
How did Carl Goldberg get into this thread?

Andy
Old 02-26-2011, 04:18 PM
  #894  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Gents,

I do not built the Simla for commercial reasons, only as a tribute to Ed Kazmirski for in my Hangar of Fame.
Just as the original it will be my personal plane and for that I may give it the name Simla, same construction details, same dimensions, same engine power, no computer radio. Just to experience the way how it is to fly the Simla.
To show a detail of the photo comparison the black dash, see the orange circle, has to be shorter. This is the way I also can make the paint scheme within mm’s, but digital photographs do have to show me the end result. That again will be dozens of photographs.

I also did find a picture of the Cream Puff of Vic Husak in the archive, Toledoshow, Februari 28 1965, so a little older as the Simla and when we look at the details we can say: ''The father of the Simla'', engine power, plug in wings, 101'' Look even at the rudder hinge slope.
''Paint'' lines and dots and calculation numbering, the way it all begins!
Cream Puff? No, reality in the future and no imagination!
Imagination I need when I do not see compare pictures!
More to come

Cees


Extra note: BEST FINISH AWARD of Vic, just as the ''Lufthanse Award for Concours d' Elegance'' of Ed (Genk 1963) noted in the time schedule!

Oké Gents,

It costs some time but here he is, the second picture of the Cream Puff.
Two pictures! Enough for a redesign and reconstruction of the father of the Simla! Do you still know the Flop?


More to come

Cees

Edit: see post 877
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10362165
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:55 PM
  #895  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

It costs some time but here he is, the second picture of the Cream Puff
Yes, about seven minutes to lift it from my post in another thread.

Ray
Old 02-26-2011, 06:32 PM
  #896  
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: RFJ

It costs some time but here he is, the second picture of the Cream Puff
Yes, about seven minutes to lift it from my post in another thread.

Ray
Ray;

If you have pictures like this, you've got to make sure I see them please. I'd hate to have to thank Cees for posting it.

I wonder how many other cool pictures you've posted that I've missed?

Duane
Old 02-27-2011, 01:10 AM
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

[quote]ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Gents,
There was more between heaven and earth.
For some time a Simla is growing in my mind like cream puff. (Cream Puff?)
But in real numbers, 68 x 1,5 = 102 ; 45 degrees ; 34 divided by 1,5 ; 1,5 x 1,5 = 2,25 etc etc.
And now I did read this of PIMMNZ in post 1595 on page 64 of Ed Kazmirski’s Taurus.
ORIGINAL: pimmnz

Sorry Cees, we haven't answered why your Taurus isn't on the 'time line'... It's because it has only ever existed in you imagination...but you knew that, too...
Evan.

[/quote
Do they know my senior pattern “imagination” in the Senior Pattern Association?
To archive I did make a visualization, also to show I do not have tunnel vision.
Oh BTW, I did use my Wester Taurus for this transformation , see post before.
And the Simla? Also for one moment in this post of the Oldest Taurus on Earth so they can talk together like “homesick angels”.
Yes there was more between heaven and earth.
Cees
Gents,

Of course it was known by me for a long time the Cream Puff was the only plane of Vic Husac related to the Simla, so too with the Oldest Taurus on Earth.
I did use the picture of the Cream Puff of Vic Husac to see if there was any interesting detail to find. Vic of course did know the Oldest Taurus on Earth, the first successful contest Taurus of Ed.

Date 5/24/2009, to fix that fact for that moment I did write this post and did quote it.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8794595

One picture of that post to show again, The Oldest Taurus on Earth, transformed to a semi Simla and decorated with “Cream Puff”.

Cream Puff is the only important plane of Vic Husac related to the Taurus development history and for that mentioned in the “Taurus Construction and flying schedule”!

More to come

Cees
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:46 AM
  #898  
Taurus Flyer
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

ORIGINAL: WEDJ

This build is going to be a book - hey, maybe you can get movie rights!

Seriously, I like the methodology very much. Sound engineering and geometric principles

This was an old post of the past, Hmmmm, have to think about that!
It would be an opportunity to show all the facts


Cees
Old 02-28-2011, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth

Gents,

“A complete failure is not a good begin”

New toys, short note about the value.

The Cream Puff pictures do have remarkable different points of view (is ‘camera location’), see the picture. The more pictures can be involved in a reconstruction process the more accurate is the result. Also the more different the equivalent angles of identical points of the plane the better the result. This all seems to be a reasonable compensation for the lower grade of detailing of the Cream Puff..

Also interesting is the fact there are two pictures with nearly same camera location but different camera height, 3 heigh position, 5 low position.
Highest of all scores is still for the crate picture, highest accuracy, which is several Mb’s. and the reference dimensions of the crate.
Lowest score for accuracy is still for the Flop, (fuselage) contours because I still have the limited account of two pictures. Overall dimensions still arel very accurate as result of the quality and dimensions of the “big picture”.

For all pictures there is one very big profit, airplanes are symmetrical objects see the yellow lines, a/b that can be used in calculations.
The result of all projects has to be the plane fits with highest accuracy in the complete set of compare pictures.
On the picture below we see a 2 D presentation, of course the real process is going with 3D, silhouettes, recognizable details etc For all it’s important to analyze the pictures first because.

"there is no way back!"

More to come,
Cees
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:24 PM
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AndyKunz
 
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Default RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth


ORIGINAL:
“A complete failure is not a good begin”
Thomas Edison would not have agreed with that. A failure is not a failure if you use it to rule out an unworkable option. That's where the light bulb came from.

“We now know a thousand ways not to build a light bulb” Thomas Edison

Andy

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