RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

I can report a successful flight of the refurbished Rafael at KY jets, Dom, Maj Woody flew it last Friday with great success.
The Eagle made a big difference, the only thing Dom said he needed was more elevator throw...but Dom can never get enough

I guess there are no more excuses I need to get our and try this thing out[X(]

Jetpilot24

My Feedback: (21)

Rich

Good to hear. Boy I wish I could have been there with you.
Are you going to Cincnnati Jets?

I am going to be there on Fri. And Sat. I have to leave Sat night so I can be back for my Clubs Fun Fly

Joe L

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Well I can report that I flew the Rafale today, what a new experience, this was my first delta wing jet flight.

I wasn't quite sure what to expect[X(]

The take off was the traditional sudden leap, but no problem as I had watched Maj. Woody when he flew it so I just relaxed the elevator and it leveled right out.

The airframe seems rock solid with no bad tendencies, I just flew around in a racetrack and figure eight pattern getting use to it.

Now for the landing, here again I didn't know what to expect....Wow does it slow down when you pull the nose[X(]



I didn't get on the throttle on time and I landed way short, I hit the nose wheel a bit hard and it sheared the steering pin clean off, then my nose drug on the asphalt for about 100 feet.

So other than a bit of a cosmetic repair on the bottom of the nose and a new steering pin all is good!

I think the next flight will be much better now that I got that out of the way

causeitflies

Congratulations Rich! Can't wait to see it fly.
You coming to the Nighthawks? You missed a good time in Cincinnati.

elapids1970

Hello Gentlemen :-)

I would be extremely grateful if somebody here who really knows about the FeiBao Rafale and has flown one sucessfully could help with the set up of this thing. The Rafale I got is an early serial #021 with a Simjet 2300 in it, that runs extremely well and starts easy. I didnt build the jet, but traded it for an aerobat as a ready to fly. Only thing I did was change over to 2.4g and replace a few air hoses and canisters.

As far as I know, that plane has never flown, except for one not-so-successful take off attempt, where it went off like champagne cork - I think you guys call that "brutal take off" ? The previous owner/builder had a few parts replaced, and it hasnt had a go since. They told me at FeiBao that thing is about 4 years or so old.

Question is, the deeper I dig, the more problems with that clipper are brought to attention, i.e flutter, hinges failing, will not rotate on take off.

I think its a great looking jet, that should by its design layout simply handle and fly great., however it requires a proper setup of throws and mixing etc, which I found so far impossible to find.

I have received throws, CoG etc from Catherine at FeiBao, and they differ by miles from the ones stated at the online manual, and I dont think anyone at FeiBao has ever flown one..its like pulling teeth to get reliable info from there.

Please guys, I would greatly appreciate some info on the setup...she is ready to go...just really dont want to hurt that engine in there if it bites the dust.

What I try to find out is: CoG correct at 130mm?
Does it need negative reflex (which sounds ok, if the canards create lift in neutral)?
Are the throws listed in the manual enough..i.e. 3mm low and 8mm high in AIL funktion?

It has everything stock from what I can see...standard elevon hinges (3 per side) - is that plane safe to fly with a mid-range turbine as the 2300 Simjet comes into, or are there known major problems with the design itself?

Thank you guys....hope someone can help :-)

extra 300

My Feedback: (3)

it sounds like you are doing the right thing, i.e. asking a lot of questions before attempting first flight, and this is exactly what idid...
Beleive that people have had differences as regards to this model but a few things are common:
A- Brutal take off if not set up properly.
B- Flutter problem if which can be resolved.
C- CG location varrying with depending on experience. Like for instance RCIFUN has 130mm while on mine i have 140mm + and feelcould go towards 145/150without issue at all.

Beleive my kit is from first FB generation and i am very happy to own this kit which in fact i have a second one in Camo scheme still NIB.

Will dig in my records to provide you with summery of my findings, tests i have run and best setups i ended up with.

Best regards,

acw

My Feedback: (1)

There is a great thread about this plane on a french message board. The consensus CG appears to be 140mm.

extra 300

My Feedback: (3)

Good luck Arnaud,

You got all the points discussed... One thing i found very helpful for rotation is having a 30 deg offset for the canards mixed with up elevator. Take offs are really smooth in less than 75 meters.
To prove this point, i forgot to flip the offset switch once and had same old brutal take off after a long run. It is only when i landed that i realized mymistake.

All the best...
Regards,
Dany

elapids1970

Morning Gents,

Good luck with that maiden flight Arnaud!! Thank you guys for your help and advise, which indeed is greatly appreciated.
Arnaud, please let us know how you go with it :-)

One very important point I would like to make about FeiBao jets in relation to my initial posting, is that it should under no circumstances be taken as discouraging or turn you off from buying, building and flying FeiBao jets - am just in the process to order myself the FeiBao MiG-15 from Marty at JetFX, who has also has been extremely helpful, depite the Rafale is years old, and was not even purchased through JetFX - great mob!!! :-)
FeiBao makes great looking jets, at unbeatable prices, and as with anything else that comes on the market new, they simply have a few teething problems at times, which are easily solved once known before attempting to fly - much harder to fix once on the back of a ute in pieces :-)

Thank you guys

Cheers,
Mazz

PeterDays

Here is a video of a Tamjets/Fei Bao Rafale I took last year, and just uploaded


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwdv8k9WIQ8[/youtube]





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwdv8k9WIQ8

elapids1970

Hi Peter, thanks for uploading the vid...nice video. :-) Very interesting too..during the taxi after the flight, it looks that it has indeed "down elevator" reflex, as the manual says it needs..and quite a bit of it too...strange for a delta wing.

The guys here been very helpful, and so is the Australian FeiBao dealer....and looks like when it comes to CofG and and control throws, the slightly different opinions average out nicely. Still not certain though what to do with the canards and reflex issues though.

Thanks Peter....Cheers

acw

My Feedback: (1)

Because of weather, I finally maidened my rafale today. During the first take-off the left tire left its rim. The gear did not retract properly although it was working on the ground. I suspect the airflow is not helping gears retracting toward the front of the plane. Finally, the small pin that holds the right leg got loose and I lost the right leg on landing....

extra 300

My Feedback: (3)

Arnaud,

Congratulations for your maiden!! Besides added drag did you feel any tendancy with large tanks in pitch axle or flight trim was unchanged??
Did you modify installation of those tanks or you just bolted them in place?

Thanks, Regards,
Dany

acw

My Feedback: (1)

The large tanks add some drag and some lift. I remember adding a few clicks of down trim in both flight and landing mode.

Rush!

RCisfun....  Great build thread... and a great manual.....  i'm new to turbines and was wondering how much i would need to put aside to put together this plane?  I have been flying 90mm EDFs and wanted to get into turbines. 

One of the main reason i am looking at the rafale is RC Jet models has it for 810USD as a package....  (to good to be true?)

http://rcjetmodels.com/index.php?_a=...&productId=302

I'm not entirely sure but the way i read it is that for 810USD, the package includes the airframe with

[*]Dual wall tailpipe[*]Retract set[*]struts, wheels, & brakes[*]check valve,fuel plug and T fuel fittings[*]Jetronics door sequencer[*]3(ea) 48" servo extensions[*]4(ea) 36" servo extensions[*]Air accessories kit[/list]with the K160 (37# thrust) coming out, and assuming favorable reviews on the turbine, this looks to be a very good deal... 

Appreciate your inputs to help me get into turbines....

Regards

Rob

JKEpps

My Feedback: (1)

Rob,

RCISFUN (his name is Rich) is on the road driving for quite a few hours (like 20+) heading to Florida Jets, so it might be a while before he replies.

-Jorden

dunkindeno

Can anyone tell me what is this camo and flag?
thanks Dennis

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (4)

I'm thinking that it's supposed to be for Jordan. They have used a cream/brown/green camo and the insignia is almost correct. The bottom stripe on the flag and the center of the roundel should be green (not black). I have seen a few photos where (depending on the sun angle) the green looks pretty dark.

Incidentally, the Royal Jordanian Air Force doesn't have Rafales, they've got F-16's.

Regards,

Jim

dunkindeno

Thanks for that Jim I think you are right
regards
Dennis

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Gee Pierre,

Aren't you just a fountain of information!

Beave

Rush!

Guys,

mikedenilin

My Feedback: (67)

Your C.G is too nose heavy because of these problems you have.

1. jump off into the air during take off rotation even if you have positive incident angle on the nose. use mid-range canard or turn it off during take off. It will rotate more gently if you have C.G right on.

2. nose tips in turn

3. use a lot of canard.

4. use a lot more fuel. even a 1 degree positive trim will consume 5-10% more fuel because of induced drags.

The factory C.G setting is way too conservative. Move it back a lot more and you will solve the problem. try 15 mm at a time. As you move back more, your control setting will become more sensitive. this is normal because you don't need a lot of control to pitch the nose. adjust your D/R accordingly. Try expo at 25% to damp off the sensitivity in the center area of the control, but don't use too much expo or your landing will be wobbling. Use D/R instead.

Put canard trim and elevator trim in separate setting so you can trim both of them in flight.

Hope this helps. Enjoy the flights.

Mike

Rush!

Thanks Mike, 

mikedenilin

My Feedback: (67)

try 145 and use DR. Mathematically it's at 140 but with fuel tanks in front of it, your fully loaded take off C.G is at about 120-125. measure that. IF so, then you are nose heavy. 145 will help, and then move back slowly. It's a delta so it won't stall or snap on you. You will find out it's easier to land slow too.

Mike

Rush!

Thanks Mike,