jhunter

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I just ordered a Penn Valley Quaker Flash kit and would like to build a second wing with ailerons. How much should the dihedral be reduced and about what size should the inset aileron be? Also does anybody have any pics of a float installation? I hope I am not comitting a sin by using ailerons on this ship, I will build and fly the rudder/elevator primarily, just want a little aileron use occasionally, we have a mega crosswind field, thanks.

Augie11

That ship is very lightly built and may not appreciate the added weight of an aileron installation. Also, the rudder has plenty of authority as it is. As far as crosswinds are concerned, if pointed even approximately into the wind the plane takes minimal runway to take off. I wish you luck but I couldn't even guess at the amount of dihedral reduction that would be appropriate.

Dsegal

For sport models the recommended guideline is to reduce dihedral by 50% if ailerons are added.
Each aileron will be 1/4 of the wing chord and 1/4 of the wingspan. This is from the November, 1995 issue of RCM by Paul Denson.

evan-RCU

You don't need ailerons on a Quaker. I can do rolling circles with rudder/ elevator. That said if you do you can reduce the dihedral a bit using the LAR "looks about right" principle. The Quaker is awesome on floats. I've had one on float s for about 12 years and love it. Mine is a Quaker Flash enlarged to 105"

John 38

Evan,
that float quaker must look great in the air - must build a floater sometime even if It can only take off grass as no fly allowable pools near me unless I want to risk the sea.

My understanding of ailerons on dihedralled wings is that the downgoing aileron induces so much drag that it produces adverse yaw - ie the plane turns in the wrong direction.

I had an 9ft aeronca champion with some dihedral ( nothing as much as the Quaker) and I had to have differential ailerons ( no downgoing ) and coupled rudder and ailerons to get any meaningful control.

Looking at Evans floatplane, I would put the effort into floats

john

TripleDeucer

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Hey Evan, what covering material is that on your QF? Looks really nice.

Thanks

evan-RCU

It's Monokote, my prefered coverering, started using it when it came out back in 1968 or so, give or take a few years....

I agree fully with the adverse yaw issue.

If you don't mind I'll post some other Quaker pics, I really like Quakers. The one I first posted has landing gear blocks for both wheels and floats but this year I built the 105" blue one (electric) and it's wheels only so I'll be keeping the yellow one on floats. Also presently I have a big 16ft one and a 36 inch which are also both electric. The 16ft'er started out on gas. The float one is my only fuel one now.

TripleDeucer

My Feedback: (129)

Thanks Evan, I thought maybe you were using some kind of lightweight cloth with a transparency factor. I also have been using Monokote for about the same amount of time and have liked it until the newer stuff. Anyway, enough thread hijacking here.
We had a fellow here that thought ailerons would make a Quaker fly better. He built one that way with reduced dihedral and found no real advantage to it. Even with ailerons, I doubt you would be able to overide the weather vane effect from that big rudder. Anyway, give it a try and report back. Would love to hear others results on the matter.

jhunter

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Thanks everybody, Evan does your Blue ship have less wing dihedral than the plans show? I will go ahead and build 2 wings and let you gus know how it comes out.

evan-RCU

There are many different plans for the Flash redrawn differently. Mine started from the Midway plans and are about where they said.

jhunter

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Here is the Quaker structure just about done, need to put the firewall for the electric motor in and solder the gear, add a few more sticks to the wing TE by the tip. I have transparent red ultracote for the covering and maybe some white trim, I kinda like the scalloped look on top of the wing some builders use with the white covering. Backed off of making an aileron wing, no need to re-invent the wheel I guess. The build was enjoyable, the kit was good, you must have some understanding of how model airplanes go together to get thru the wing center section so it probably would not be a good first attempt at kit building. Looking forward to flying it and will post more pic's then.

culver

J, do your self a favor and add 1/16" thick vertical grain balsa webs to the spars out to the 7th or 8th rib, they will help keep the wing tips from slapping each other in a hard pull up or loop.

Augie11

Yup, it's a Quaker Flash
Don't they use reeds for the wingtips/stab any more?

evan-RCU

The original Flash's used sheet balsa for all the tips. The larger Flying Quaker used reeds. Pat's is a bit different from the original Flash while maintaining the true outlines.

jhunter

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Thanks for remnding me! I had every intention of putting shear webs in, just didn't do it.

jhunter

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Another modeler suggested using a fixture to solder the gear, instead of doing it on the fuse, worked really well.

jhunter

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Gear, a motor, some window frames and some vintage wheels from my grandpa's days.

doctor jason

Any idea how much throw on the rudders and elevators, the old plan don't give any idea,

cheers

TripleDeucer

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Start with about 3/8" either way on both. You can adjust to your preference from there.

jhunter

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The manual for the Quaker Flash says 3/4 to 1" rudder and elevator.

jhunter

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Finally ready to cover, everything has been in and working, all ops checks good. Time consuming , but fun to build with sticks again...........

jhunter

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Done, just need to put in the windows and clean that area up, thanks to everybody for the advice.

John 38

nicely covered - you cannot beat transparent red for showing off a nice airframe and the red shows up well way up in the sky
john